Terrain ideas

[WillJ]

First up: Movement Costs

I don't know if it's too late right now, and I'm sure this has been brought up before (but not in this forum, AFAIK), so I'll just say it right here and now:

Why in the world does it take exactly the same amount of time to cross a grassland or plain as a desert or tundra? Historically AFAIK deserts are almost right up there with mountains and jungles in blocking exploration and movement.

I was wondering if anyone else thinks it would be more accurate if grasslands, plains, tundra, and deserts did not all have the same movement cost. My suggestion: Make deserts and tundra have a movement cost of 2, the same as hills and forests.

I'll note, though, that I have not thought this through all that much, and there may be problems with this that haven't crossed my mind yet, but as I picture in my mind a long stretch of desert in a Civ3 game actually dampering movement, I think this would improve the game. I know this can be done in the Editor as it is, but like many others I don't like playing with modified rules; I like my games to be "official."

Thoughts?

Second: Why can't we make new terrain in the Editor, instead of only being able to replace terrain? I think I remember there being a reason, but I can't remember it. Can anyone explain?

Also, as the thread title suggests, feel free to post any other ideas you have about terrain.

 

[slothman]

I don't mind modding but making deserts and tundra have 2 movement is still good. I also would change the default defence from those to maybe 50%.
The probnlem with adding new terrain is that the map generator probably can't handle it. For example rivers always, I think, start at mountains and end at lakes and oceans. How would the new generator differentiate tundra from "polar?" How does it know to put it North and South instead of mid-map? Of course it could be adjusted by having the generator still only use the original terrain types but you can add the others in yourself.
A good idea would be to seperate, for example, desert from flood plains. Allow any terrain next to any other if edited. Like have a checker board of coast and ocean next to each other, which the current editor doesn't allow.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by slothman
The probnlem with adding new terrain is that the map generator probably can't handle it. For example rivers always, I think, start at mountains and end at lakes and oceans. How would the new generator differentiate tundra from "polar?" How does it know to put it North and South instead of mid-map?

Yes, that's a good point. I guess the best solution (besides not randomly generating custom terrain) is to allow us to modify more things in the Editor. For example, let us customize where rivers can start and end; what terrain has to go next to other terrain, or rivers; where on the map terrain generaly goes; how common certain terrain is; etc. I'm pretty sure that would be possible, since things have been added to the Editor before.

As for tundra and deserts having a 50% defensive bonus, I don't think that's a good idea. Why would defending units have an advantage (or at least heavy advantage) over attacking units in a desert or tundra? It makes sense in mountains, forests, and jungles, because these natural features have "barriers" that defenders can hide behind, sneak around in, dodge ammo with, etc. Grassland, plains, tundra, and desert are all flat areas with not much to defend with. I also think hills shouldn't give a 50% defensive bonus; maybe 15% or so, at most 25%.

 

[The Last Conformist]

Desert isn't really that hard to plod across at decent speed - the problem is, of course, going without water. Perhaps (non-Worker) units on unroaded desert should run a certain chance of dying at end of each turn, à la Galleys in Sea/Ocean?

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Desert isn't really that hard to plod across at decent speed - the problem is, of course, going without water. Perhaps (non-Worker) units on unroaded desert should run a certain chance of dying at end of each turn, à la Galleys in Sea/Ocean?

Yeah, I started thinking that myself, and it makes more sense. And what about tundra? I'd say it deserves a movement cost of two, wouldn't you? I guess it'd have a risk of death for non-worker units just like desert, due to lack of water and the bitter cold.

 

[allhailIndia]

I agree 1 movement point across desert and tundra is a bit illogical. Also, It would be interesting it units could take damage when moving into Mountains. ( It is historically proved)

 

[slothman]

In PTW, I don't have it, is there a flag that enables or disenables (instead of disables) disease from terrain types? If not that would be a good idea. Both unit losses and citizen losses.

 

[EddyG17]

hills should have a 50% defensive bonus, remember Waterloo ( did I spell it right? )

 

[casual_moose]

why would only non worker units die? cant every unit die in jungles? then why not the same with desert?

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by casual_moose
why would only non worker units die? cant every unit die in jungles? then why not the same with desert?

I don't think workers can die in jungles. Well, I know that they can't when working the jungles; not 100% sure about when they're just there. And I consider workers highly resourceful citizens that are trained to work all kinds of land, and are therefore prepared enough to not die.

 

[joespaniel]

Civ3 is missing swampland/marsh.

Special resources for marsh: peat (+1 shields) and/or gas (?).

Can be converted to grassland by workers, but takes many turns.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by joespaniel
Civ3 is missing swampland/marsh.

Special resources for marsh: peat (+1 shields) and/or gas (?).

Can be converted to grassland by workers, but takes many turns.

Yep, and it's also missing chaparral and rockland.

 

[RX2000]

Why cant we irrigate hills? We could in Civ2. Havent the guys at Firaxis ever heard of terracing?

 

[Bane Star]

I just wanna see a nice open editable terrains set, Look at earth, cold desert, desert(in), hot desert, sand dunes, Flood plains(in) mediterrainian, Chapparrel, Marsh, Swamp, Mangrove, Jungle(in), Amazonian sized rivers (yes yellow river, mississippi(spl?) other huge rivers), Temperate Forest(in), Boreal Forest(graphic but not terrain difference), Rain Forest, Steppe, Prairie, Plains(in), Wasteland, Tundra(in), Polar, Rolling hills, Temperate Hills, Volcanic Hills, Hills(in), Lower mountains, Forested Mountains, Mountains(in), Polar Capped Mountains(graphic again), Major Peaks, thats 30 so far... add in Coast, Sea and Ocean, probably should have Inland Sea and Lake as well, 35 terrains

Reason? Allows the game much more possible situations, you dont have to have different basic game stats, stick to the forest, hills, plains, etc etc, but who says each resource will/can appear in EVERY forest, regardless of its climate...

Each should have the stats that we currently have, but a simple addition of
- Allowable surrounding terrain. At the moment you cannot put tundra next to desert, it forces grassland in between.
- The effect that river has upon the terrain, e.g. desert becomes flood plains...
- The 'wet' level of the terrain
- 'temperature rating'
- 'aged world' rating.
these would be enough for the world creation program to work

another want.... to be able to turn on/off a terrain, dont like having a cold world,... turn off all the terrains that include it, maybe include the general sets of terrains, players can opt for 'mid Europe' and wont get deserts,... or Choose a climate based island, play in just america, or australia or england, the game will turn off sets of terrains and only use the left-over when making the map.

oh and more worker jobs for the terrains, the ability to have paths, roads, railroads, highways, mag-lev track... or the power to add many many more buildings/stuff to a terrain for a defined effect. This allows not just planet based, but other game based mods so the Civ engine becomes more customizable... imagine workers able to make a terrain based defensive unit/structure. that counts as a unit but is imovable, you could make Star-Craft into a TBS..... hmmm theres an idea... back in a moment...

 

[Alone]

It would be nice to make seeable difference (in color or so..) beetwen desert and flood plain and also much more difference bettwen grassland and bonusgrassland.

If it's not late .