The Africa mod

[The Snug]

I thought I'd start a thread regarding the implementation of an African mod.

We should discuss what civs should be added, and also new terrain types (if any), new units, and new commodities.

I'll simply make a few initial notes to spur discussion.

Instead of "native americans", we'd need to add a number of African tribes. I'm not familiar enough with African history to suggest the tribes (that's where you come in) for inclusion. Of course, we'd need to include Egypt, and then a number of African tribes including the Zulu.

We'd want to find 4 new commodities to match the American commoditites. Off the top of my head I can think of gold, diamonds, ivory and slaves.

We'd need to add a few new Euro nations: Germany, Italy, Portugal and Belgium come to mind.

 

[Jason T]

We'd want to find 4 new commodities to match the American commoditites. Off the top of my head I can think of gold, diamonds, ivory and slaves.

We'd need to add a few new Euro nations: Germany, Italy, Portugal and Belgium come to mind.

I have a problem with these commodities, but not the one you might think.

If I may be so bold, the spirit of the base game is such that the "point" of the commodities is to provide a raw material that some building can turn into a finished product.

I'm curious as to what those commodities will be turned into. It's easy to imagine that gold and diamonds can be turned into jewelry, but now you have the problem of having two commodities that point to the same product.

What do you plan to "turn" slaves into?

Something that I've long found lacking in the original game, but which I haven't found the venue to express until now) is that lumber can only be turned into hammers. An easy product for the commodity of lumber is furniture. For me, it would solve one problem (the glut of lumber I always end up having) and add a game-play element (how do I best decide how to "allocate" labor to turn lumber into hammers and furniture while maintaining sources of both.)

It might be worthwhile to consider non-food agriculture - maybe sugar can still be used as a precursor to rum. Perhaps a "raw spice" can be converted into a finished spice.

 

[The Snug]

Well, I think from a basic level, the African economy would be different from the American economy. Slaves wouldn't be a commodity in terms of normal game functioning, but would simply be a "human commodity" that would be bought sold and transported in similar fashion to other colonists (in this case, if you've followed the slave mod thread, you'd understand that we'd create a slave unit).

As to diamonds, you could have cut and uncut diamonds. Ivory to jewelry. Gold could replace (or augment) silver.

I did find that pepper was a popular commodity from Africa.

Perhaps we could view the African economy further different in that instead of having commodities that would be "refined" we would just have extra "grab and sell" goods. Grab gold, grab diamonds, grab slaves (by attacking natives or by purchasing them from native ports) and quick sell into Europe/America/Asia. This would imitate silver from the original game. We could also add a raw spice good that could be converted into pepper (or in Asia into tea and opium).

As to lumber, I learned to convert lumber into ships by having a large port city with 3 constant master carpenters churning them out.

 

[Dryhad]

Instead of "native americans", we'd need to add a number of African tribes. I'm not familiar enough with African history to suggest the tribes (that's where you come in) for inclusion. Of course, we'd need to include Egypt, and then a number of African tribes including the Zulu.

The handling of natives should be given a lot of consideration. Are the Ottomans considered native Africans? How about Liberia and, if not, should the United States be present as a colonial power?

 

[Lord Shadow]

I guess it depends on the mod's timeframe. If it's the same as the base game's, then the US and Liberia and out of the scope.

 

[Jason T]

Well, I think from a basic level, the African economy would be different from the American economy. Slaves wouldn't be a commodity in terms of normal game functioning, but would simply be a "human commodity" that would be bought sold and transported in similar fashion to other colonists (in this case, if you've followed the slave mod thread, you'd understand that we'd create a slave unit).

As to diamonds, you could have cut and uncut diamonds. Ivory to jewelry. Gold could replace (or augment) silver.

I did find that pepper was a popular commodity from Africa.

Perhaps we could view the African economy further different in that instead of having commodities that would be "refined" we would just have extra "grab and sell" goods. Grab gold, grab diamonds, grab slaves (by attacking natives or by purchasing them from native ports) and quick sell into Europe/America/Asia. This would imitate silver from the original game. We could also add a raw spice good that could be converted into pepper (or in Asia into tea and opium).

As to lumber, I learned to convert lumber into ships by having a large port city with 3 constant master carpenters churning them out.

I don't disagree with anything here. I just wanted to make the observation that turning lumber into ships is still a matter of turning lumber into hammers and spending the hammers on the ship that is currently in your production queue (the one that used to be in your head, and the one that will no doubt be on the game window).

What I was saying before is that it would have been nice (and would be nice now) if someone else worked with wood. To follow your previous example, it wasn't really the master carpenters who were "churning out" the ships, because those are the same hammers that got turned into a tobacco factory on the previous build, or cathedral on the next one.

Now, if a "master shipwright" could take wood (and probably depending on the size of the ship, tools) and turn those into a ship, or (as I mentioned before) a "master wood craftsman" could turn the wood into furniture, then that would be something as far as I am concerned.

Edit: I should have also mentioned that I was never particularly pleased about the idea that silver went unfinished. I hear that there was this really important silversmith involved in our own drive for independence, but I've never been able to follow up on the rumor...

 

[The Snug]

Silversmith - Paul Revere.

I didn't like how lumber was always useless for sale in Europe.

I suppose furniture is an interesting idea, however, I kinda like the idea of being able to sell ships. Maybe even selling new slaver ships for less savory foreign colonists.

 

[Jason T]

This one lagged out. Oops

 

[Jason T]

Silversmith - Paul Revere.

I thought about putting a smiley face on there, to let people know that I was facetious or sarcastic. But then I thought to myself, "No, people will naturally assume that someone who plays Civ has some command over history. No one would possibly pounce on it as a 'Gotcha!' moment."

I must say that I'm disappointed to have been proven wrong. But I guess that's the Internet...

 

[The Snug]

Not everyone who plays civ is a nerdy intellectual. Being facetious, sarcastic, sardonic, secretive or simply clever will confuse many of our brethren. I simply filled in the gap for those who do not possess the ability to see through your witty parlance, but thanks for the attempt.

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I do have a pretty good command of history- and I had no idea that Paul Revere was a silversmith.

 

[Dryhad]

I thought about putting a smiley face on there, to let people know that I was facetious or sarcastic. But then I thought to myself, "No, people will naturally assume that someone who plays Civ has some command over history. No one would possibly pounce on it as a 'Gotcha!' moment."

I must say that I'm disappointed to have been proven wrong. But I guess that's the Internet...

I found it very helpful. There are many of us who don't live in the United States, and for whom "some command over history" does not mean knowing the names of silversmiths involved in the American Revolution.

 

[JoeBas]

Speaking purely of the Lumber issue, I'm not sure why some of y'all were having problems with extra lumber... whenever my lumber builds up, I just move my lumberjack to help the carpenter make stuff faster for a while, and use up the surplus. Supercharged building!

 

[henryMCVII]

I guess it depends on the mod's timeframe. If it's the same as the base game's, then the US and Liberia and out of the scope.

If time frame is the same as the base game, colonization of (nearly) whole Africa is out of the scope. There was a hand full of coast outposts, there was no real colonizing in that time frame. Real colonization of Africa started in age of Imperialism not in Age of Discovery/Colonization. Even 1870 mainly just a plenty handfull of coastal stripes where owned by colonial powers (maybe exept Algeria and Cape Colonie).

 

[Dryhad]

If time frame is the same as the base game, colonization of (nearly) whole Africa is out of the scope. There was a hand full of coast outposts, there was no real colonizing in that time frame. Real colonization of Africa started in age of Imperialism not in Age of Discovery/Colonization. Even 1870 mainly just a plenty handfull of coastal stripes where owned by colonial powers (maybe exept Algeria and Cape Colonie).

...Which is why there's even a question as to what time frame to use. Obviously it's not going to be the same as the main game!

 

[pay-t]

Then how about modding the time frame. You can make a scenario of the African continent with a exended time-line.

Anyways, if you're willing to go on with your mod. I'll help, if I can. Make some of the civilizations or something.

About the native Americans, I suggest using the African present civilizations also used in Europa Universalis, with a few exeptions to the Northern-African countries (Libya, Egypt)

Some I could think of would be the Swahili, Congo, Mali, Ethiopia and Guinnea inhabitants.

 

[Ambassador]

I think, a Colonization for Africa should focus on Subsaharan Africa, so no worries for Ottomans Egyptians or the Bey of Tunis. Also, these nations are more European-like. But the Sub-saharan tribes and peoples are more Indian-nations like. For example the Abyssinians, Kongolese or the Mali/Songhay (around 1500) are like higher advanced nations - like the Inkas or Atzecs. Then you have smaller sedentary communities like the Bornu (Chad region), the Lunda, Loango, the Kaabu. Nomadic or just small people (Tupi, Sioux-like) could be the warlike Jaqqa, the Tuareg, the Zulu.

Still, I think Arabian merchants (the Oman kingdom) should be a competitor to the European powers as French, British, Portugese (the Spanish only inhabited a small portion in Maghreb), the Dutch, maybe Prussians or Danish also.

As commities I can think about cotton (cloth), cocoa (chocolate), caoutchouc (rubber), copper (cutlery?), honey, wax, coffee. Concerning the gold/diamonds/ivory - why not combining them to produce some extremely expensive goods. When producing guns you also need ore (via hammers) and wood. Guns are really helpful, so jewelry has to be really paying off in Europe. Or you can simply coin money with gold?