The Desert Dutch
- Thread starter Der_Zorn_gottes
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Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
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- 774
I finally figured oit what I did wrong with the batch conversion, so the images will be smaller and no longer break the thread (on my resolution at least).
For the 39 unhappiness of Thebes, that's not real. It actually does 13 unhappiness (half it's population) due to resistance. Why the city screen gives a wrong number, I don't know. Maybe it is not even wrong, but one mechanism is overridden by another?
Anyway, now that I got the Egyptian cap, it's time to step back a bit and look at the game. What are my next steps?
My initial goal of colonisation overseas has to be postponed, if not cancelled alltogether. I have made only limited exploration, but the findings were not encouraging. I found the other continent, that was obvious. Then there is an archipel in the south, with several city states, and the free islands claimed by Morokko already. And I found some small islands in the east, which could be promising. But right now, all available ships are sent to the north, harrassing the Egyptian coast. And I cannot afford new cities right now anyway.
My Great Prophet will be plantet near a weak city, probably Dublin. Usually I would put it to the cap, to benefit from culture/tourism enhancers, which the capital gets much sooner. But since I already ruled a culture victory out, I care only little about tourism and want him to help that backwater city to expand it's borders quicker.
I will wait a few more turns before settling, because I am currently building the University of Sankore. Yep, I finally get to get a wonder again (even only because no AI picked Piety).
Now that I am nearing the end of Rennaisance, I start eying ideologies. Unless forced otherwise, I will go Freedom, because it synergizes best with my specialist heavy setup. I will soon start to beeline towards a modern age tech. But looking at the leading AIs, they might get to ideologies first via culture - some of them are already deep into the medieveal trees.
But that is far in the future, let's focus on the ongoing war.
The current theatre, also featuring Darius impressive stats.
I want to conquer Rabat, and trade it for those annoying cities Ahmad has planted at my shores. Sidon, Meknes and Toledo are meant to be liberated, while Elepantine and Madrid I want to keep.
When I made this plans it sounds easy enough, as my elite Muskets were dispatching Egyptian units with ease. However I soon noticed that now I am sitting in the valley, and every ranged Egyptian unit sitting on the ranges all around would have a field day with my invading army. Also a neverending stream af Egyptians keeps pouring in (some very decently promoted). So instead of advancing, I spend a lot of time consolidating, and playing cat and mouse with Ramesses.
However, my tech-thefts and several research agreements have greatly improved my research situation:
Speaking of stealing, this time, my timing wasn't as good as last time. On the other hand, this was the last tech I could get from Egypt, and the spy was only in the city for vision, so I can't complain too much.
On the northern border, Egypt and I were doing a strange choreography: I would bring my ships up to Akhentaken, defeat the Egyptian ships, and conquer the city with my Sea Beggars, razing it. Then the partisans and reinforcements would drive back my ships, take the city back. My ships heal, and a few turns later we repeat it all over again. Shortly Bouadica also declare war on me, but of course her outdated units did no damage, and peace was soon restored.
Meknes was undefendes, and captured with minimal forces, while my main army still fights around Thebes.
Ahmad takes his chance to get his cities back. Now that Morokkan troops are pouring in from the south, the style of the battle changes drastically. Instead of carefully maneuvering, it becomes a race to get the city first.
Meanwhile, next congress. The two votes for Byzanz and Polynesia are just to please the civs, and the vote for Egypt (hah!) because I actually want peace accords to be repealed.
I got Rabat, but noticed thatit had a lux and a 7-coal patch in its borders. Add to that a full circle of Kashbash, and greed got the better of me and I kept it, even though unhappiness is hurting me.
Next was the race to Sido, but here Ahmed beat me. I got the consolidation price of the Egytian worker stack (one I gave back to Spain).
Meanwhile, unhappiness really starts to hurt me, and at the first time I hit -20, rebells triggerd. I had a bit of luck that some of them wandered off to Bratislava.
Where does this massive unhappiness come from? Well, apparently my empire is run by the mob.
I closed in on Giza, but meanwhile Ramesses has fuseliers. My small detatchment that was supposed to conquer Toldedo and Madris was beaten back badly. I am really surprised by the amount of units that poured out of only two cities. All in all, the negative combat modifier is hurting me badly. Egypt is putting up one heck of a defence.
For the 39 unhappiness of Thebes, that's not real. It actually does 13 unhappiness (half it's population) due to resistance. Why the city screen gives a wrong number, I don't know. Maybe it is not even wrong, but one mechanism is overridden by another?
Anyway, now that I got the Egyptian cap, it's time to step back a bit and look at the game. What are my next steps?
My initial goal of colonisation overseas has to be postponed, if not cancelled alltogether. I have made only limited exploration, but the findings were not encouraging. I found the other continent, that was obvious. Then there is an archipel in the south, with several city states, and the free islands claimed by Morokko already. And I found some small islands in the east, which could be promising. But right now, all available ships are sent to the north, harrassing the Egyptian coast. And I cannot afford new cities right now anyway.
My Great Prophet will be plantet near a weak city, probably Dublin. Usually I would put it to the cap, to benefit from culture/tourism enhancers, which the capital gets much sooner. But since I already ruled a culture victory out, I care only little about tourism and want him to help that backwater city to expand it's borders quicker.
I will wait a few more turns before settling, because I am currently building the University of Sankore. Yep, I finally get to get a wonder again (even only because no AI picked Piety).
Now that I am nearing the end of Rennaisance, I start eying ideologies. Unless forced otherwise, I will go Freedom, because it synergizes best with my specialist heavy setup. I will soon start to beeline towards a modern age tech. But looking at the leading AIs, they might get to ideologies first via culture - some of them are already deep into the medieveal trees.
But that is far in the future, let's focus on the ongoing war.
The current theatre, also featuring Darius impressive stats.
I want to conquer Rabat, and trade it for those annoying cities Ahmad has planted at my shores. Sidon, Meknes and Toledo are meant to be liberated, while Elepantine and Madrid I want to keep.
When I made this plans it sounds easy enough, as my elite Muskets were dispatching Egyptian units with ease. However I soon noticed that now I am sitting in the valley, and every ranged Egyptian unit sitting on the ranges all around would have a field day with my invading army. Also a neverending stream af Egyptians keeps pouring in (some very decently promoted). So instead of advancing, I spend a lot of time consolidating, and playing cat and mouse with Ramesses.
However, my tech-thefts and several research agreements have greatly improved my research situation:
Speaking of stealing, this time, my timing wasn't as good as last time. On the other hand, this was the last tech I could get from Egypt, and the spy was only in the city for vision, so I can't complain too much.
On the northern border, Egypt and I were doing a strange choreography: I would bring my ships up to Akhentaken, defeat the Egyptian ships, and conquer the city with my Sea Beggars, razing it. Then the partisans and reinforcements would drive back my ships, take the city back. My ships heal, and a few turns later we repeat it all over again. Shortly Bouadica also declare war on me, but of course her outdated units did no damage, and peace was soon restored.
Meknes was undefendes, and captured with minimal forces, while my main army still fights around Thebes.
Ahmad takes his chance to get his cities back. Now that Morokkan troops are pouring in from the south, the style of the battle changes drastically. Instead of carefully maneuvering, it becomes a race to get the city first.
Meanwhile, next congress. The two votes for Byzanz and Polynesia are just to please the civs, and the vote for Egypt (hah!) because I actually want peace accords to be repealed.
I got Rabat, but noticed thatit had a lux and a 7-coal patch in its borders. Add to that a full circle of Kashbash, and greed got the better of me and I kept it, even though unhappiness is hurting me.
Next was the race to Sido, but here Ahmed beat me. I got the consolidation price of the Egytian worker stack (one I gave back to Spain).
Meanwhile, unhappiness really starts to hurt me, and at the first time I hit -20, rebells triggerd. I had a bit of luck that some of them wandered off to Bratislava.
Where does this massive unhappiness come from? Well, apparently my empire is run by the mob.
I closed in on Giza, but meanwhile Ramesses has fuseliers. My small detatchment that was supposed to conquer Toldedo and Madris was beaten back badly. I am really surprised by the amount of units that poured out of only two cities. All in all, the negative combat modifier is hurting me badly. Egypt is putting up one heck of a defence.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
The forever war against Egypt continues.
I don't try to advance - I coulnd't take the unhappiness of a new conquest, and with my negative combat modifier I won't get anywhere. So I am content to kill whatever Ramesses throws at me, while I work my unhappiness away. Sometimes, it even works in my favour. Note the two barbarian lancers - they were actually fighting the Egyptians.
Polynesia was the first one to a ideology, chosing Order.
Here I try my luck again at Madrid, but I am not very serious about it. If I meet too stern resistance, I will just wait for Artillery. As you can see, I am not in war mode at all - no city builds units. Occasionally I build one, but the economic focus is on industrilising my core and reducing unhappiness.
Btw, the map is from the steam workshop. Sorry for forgetting that question.
I don't try to advance - I coulnd't take the unhappiness of a new conquest, and with my negative combat modifier I won't get anywhere. So I am content to kill whatever Ramesses throws at me, while I work my unhappiness away. Sometimes, it even works in my favour. Note the two barbarian lancers - they were actually fighting the Egyptians.
Polynesia was the first one to a ideology, chosing Order.
Here I try my luck again at Madrid, but I am not very serious about it. If I meet too stern resistance, I will just wait for Artillery. As you can see, I am not in war mode at all - no city builds units. Occasionally I build one, but the economic focus is on industrilising my core and reducing unhappiness.
Btw, the map is from the steam workshop. Sorry for forgetting that question.
What ideology are you planning to go? What with Polders, one key choice is between +3 science* from Autocracy MI complex, +1 food from Freedom Urbanization, or +1 production from Order 5 Year Plan.
*+3 science is broken in latest stable patch - but an easy fix (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=565651&page=6)
*+3 science is broken in latest stable patch - but an easy fix (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=565651&page=6)
With his unhappiness situation he might not have a choice in which idealogy to adopt. He might have to just go for the one that causes the least dissidents.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
Heh, Ideology - that's gonna be a special chapter this time. I'll give that much of a spoiler: I botched this one up in every possible way.
But before I get to that, I still have a war at my hand.
In the norhern seas, not much is going on. Some skirmishing and raiding, but I am getting nowhere, but neither is Ramesses.
At least I finally get something going on the main frontier: The push to Madrid will be successful this time around. Because it is a capital I am going to keep it regardless, as I still haven't ruled out domination as a victory (although attacking Persia surely would be a pain).
Still it is an awfully slow progrees. The combat modifier from unhappiness and the fact that Egypt has Fuseliers against my Tercios both work against me here. And I am teching towards modern age, ignoring military techs.
But range and logistic muskets are still range and logistic muskets.
Poor Samarkand, being trolled by my citadels already gets another strike of bad luck:
I was hoping a little bit that it would fall, but my citadel hurt the barbarians, and the city never was in any real danger. As all my military was occupied at the Egypt border (even though it was close) I could not capitalize the situation. A few tiles got pillaged, but no big deal.
Also capturing Madrid has pushed my happiness dangerously close to -20 again, but what can you do (of course you could chose to not conquer cities under these circumstances, but come on!)
Meanwhile, I started working on Toledo. This city I will liberate (keeping it would have given me a shot a amber monopoly, but I didn't realize that at the time).
The Egyptian carpet north of Madirid looks intimidating, but it is not at all. Those are all ranged units, so Madrid is under no danger, while my ranged units on mountains slowly pick them apart. And since both tiles north of madrid are rough terrain, I am save from melees, as they would always end their movement there (a lancer might do it, but Egypt hasn't many horses and prefers cuirrasiers). An embarked fusilier could take the city, but aparently the AI is not capable of that, and instead of a amphibious attack on the city would disembark next to it. All in all, situation under control.
Here is something that doesn't happen very often to me: AI digging up my lands. Usually I prioritise archeologists, but this this time I didn't pay enough attention. And unfortunately the open border agreement is still running for a long time.
Another attempt in the north, but is will end like the others: Take city, lose it, be repelled. Whatever.
The AI smells blood in the water, and Morokko and Polinesia both try to get their share of Egypt. Polynesia never did much, they sent half a dozend units one at a time which just died.
Morokkos action was more serious, they sent quite a carpet. On one side I was glad, as it was help. But then I was concerned that he would get a city I wanted. But the fact that his units had to manouver around mine resulted in them arriving piecemeal, with little effect. They soaked up a good deal of fire though. All in all, they were moderately helpfull. Still Ramesses realises he is losing:
Generous terms, but nope.
The plan here is to take Seville, liberate and attack Giza from the west, where I have better fields of fire.
I messed my troop placement up a bit here: The cannons in the back cannot advance because they are completely blocked by my Muskets (which I didn't want to move becuase they were in perfectly places and had to shoot every turn). Awkward.
Also Ahmed is going after Giza too, and I have very few melees in the area.
Meanwhile Theodora digged up two more artifacts in my lands (really sloppy play from me). I asked her to stop, and she obliged. And continued digging.
However, finally I entered the modern area and got my Ideology.
What do I want?
Well, I said before, I want Freedom, because it synergizes the best with my specialist economy. If the Autocracy tenet Military Industrial Coplex was working (I played before reading kungapa's posting) I would have been very, very tempted to take Autocracy just because of that (although +3 from UIs is silly and should be reduced anyway). But none of this really matters because:
It is really not a choice. Freedom it is. Which is fine, but getting no free early adopter tenet really sucks. I delayed the research of important military techs for more than 50 turns while in a gruelling war of attrition to get to ideologies, and as a reward I get nothing. Yeah, that was really bad.
But wait, it gets even better (or worse).
It seems that taking Freedom is the clear pick, but in hindsight it was clearly another huge mistake.
What I should have done is pick order. Sounds crazy, but:
I would have gotten a free tenet, which would have been the free museum in every city. Then, I get a massive wave of unhappiness and can revolt to freedom. I lose the free tenet, but I didn't get one by taking Freedom anyway. But here is the thing: I would have kept the free museum in every city. Ok, there would have been a few turns of anarchy from the switch, but a free museum in every city would have been easily worth it.
I don't think I could have handled Ideologies any worse.
While I am at, what policies do I have?
I started Tradition and completed it.
Then I started Piety and completed it.
After that, I was torn between Rationalism and Comerce, and picked Rationalism. I had enough money (if there is something as enough money), and with science victory as my preferred route, Rationalism seems the correct choice. I have not benefited from the bonus science if the empire is happy a lot, though. But that will hopefully change someday. I am currently going down the the left branch.
And Freedom is my Ideology.
A free policy from an event gave me free hospitals (if Freedom, I always pick public healthcare first. It is the best happiness enhancer, since -20% poverty need is a lot). Avant Garde for more GPs was next.
After that wall of text, for something completely different. Not much to say here but "thanks".
Things are looking up: I am influental enough to make a proposal.
Proposals I am looking for in the future are better GS generation, and boosts to my VC (space) and travel ban against Persia. Not too likely those will pass, but we'll see.
On the border, once I had artilleries things sped up significantly. Giza is already taken, and I finally get Memphis. And look: I am no longer unhappy!
At least briefly. But the cities I take now are good, courthouses come quickly. I'll be fine. Meanwhile, Boudoca tries her luck for the umpteeth time. That lone musket is enough to hold her back though.
Heliopolis is the last city I am going to keep, nice wonders. Machu Picchu even makes the mountains usefull.
And here is Egyptland after the war. The crappy tundra cities were either liberated or razed. And Ramesses is reduced to the crappy city of Akhentaken, which was conquerd and reconquered so many times that there is not a single building left. Here he can spend the rest of the game. I like that it is next to the Celts. It's like having both my victims in the same arctic exile.
I got the powerfull Egyptian core cities and am busy poldering them up.
Quebeck has an uprising, which I use to inflate my influence even more.
And happiness is looking all right now.
Southern Egypt.
Morokko has declared on Polynesia before. Godspeed, Ahmed, but I fear this one ends badly for you. It's been just three turns after he has declared, and he is already pushed back. He will get Samarkand though (for what it's worth).
Long term, I think I will have to fight with Polynesia too. They are Autocracy, hate me and have denounced me already. But right now I am reluctant, because they are like 5 techs ahead.
The core. Note that I have two Great Artists in reserve. I will burn them when I am going after a world project. Hopefully I have gotten the Rationalsm policy that improves science during golden ages by then.
And former Celtica. I am still planning on acquiring Essaouira somehow (peacefully). Ahmed isn't too attached, he offerd it several times in exchange for Fez. But since Fez is my trading city with EIC, i declined every time. Still, if my offer is right, I guess I can get it.
Not the historical site that I have buildt in anticipation of aquiring the city someday, and the manufactury that is pillages for way over 100 turns by now.
And the final turn of the last session. I took the tenet that reduces unhappiness from specialist,and filled every available scientist slot in every city.
Now happiness is fine, science is back up. Exploration of the seas has resumed.
My military is deploying along the Polynesian border, I don't trust them. Still, for this war I would need more troops - the time where a small detatchment of elite units wins a war on their own is passed. But for now Polynesia has enough on their hands. I just hope Ahmed isn't defeated too badly, or I will have to intervene anyway.
I also bought Perisa's maps, it's as bad as I feared, they are huge.
Still, I am quite happy with my empire right now.
I am a bit behind on techs, but will catch up quickly.
The main next steps will be:
Become more influecial in the congress.
Explore and possible colonize the seas.
Get more military on the Polynesian border.
Develope the Egyptian cities.
My chances for victory are decent, I guess.
But before I get to that, I still have a war at my hand.
In the norhern seas, not much is going on. Some skirmishing and raiding, but I am getting nowhere, but neither is Ramesses.
At least I finally get something going on the main frontier: The push to Madrid will be successful this time around. Because it is a capital I am going to keep it regardless, as I still haven't ruled out domination as a victory (although attacking Persia surely would be a pain).
Still it is an awfully slow progrees. The combat modifier from unhappiness and the fact that Egypt has Fuseliers against my Tercios both work against me here. And I am teching towards modern age, ignoring military techs.
But range and logistic muskets are still range and logistic muskets.
Poor Samarkand, being trolled by my citadels already gets another strike of bad luck:
I was hoping a little bit that it would fall, but my citadel hurt the barbarians, and the city never was in any real danger. As all my military was occupied at the Egypt border (even though it was close) I could not capitalize the situation. A few tiles got pillaged, but no big deal.
Also capturing Madrid has pushed my happiness dangerously close to -20 again, but what can you do (of course you could chose to not conquer cities under these circumstances, but come on!)
Meanwhile, I started working on Toledo. This city I will liberate (keeping it would have given me a shot a amber monopoly, but I didn't realize that at the time).
The Egyptian carpet north of Madirid looks intimidating, but it is not at all. Those are all ranged units, so Madrid is under no danger, while my ranged units on mountains slowly pick them apart. And since both tiles north of madrid are rough terrain, I am save from melees, as they would always end their movement there (a lancer might do it, but Egypt hasn't many horses and prefers cuirrasiers). An embarked fusilier could take the city, but aparently the AI is not capable of that, and instead of a amphibious attack on the city would disembark next to it. All in all, situation under control.
Here is something that doesn't happen very often to me: AI digging up my lands. Usually I prioritise archeologists, but this this time I didn't pay enough attention. And unfortunately the open border agreement is still running for a long time.
Another attempt in the north, but is will end like the others: Take city, lose it, be repelled. Whatever.
The AI smells blood in the water, and Morokko and Polinesia both try to get their share of Egypt. Polynesia never did much, they sent half a dozend units one at a time which just died.
Morokkos action was more serious, they sent quite a carpet. On one side I was glad, as it was help. But then I was concerned that he would get a city I wanted. But the fact that his units had to manouver around mine resulted in them arriving piecemeal, with little effect. They soaked up a good deal of fire though. All in all, they were moderately helpfull. Still Ramesses realises he is losing:
Generous terms, but nope.
The plan here is to take Seville, liberate and attack Giza from the west, where I have better fields of fire.
I messed my troop placement up a bit here: The cannons in the back cannot advance because they are completely blocked by my Muskets (which I didn't want to move becuase they were in perfectly places and had to shoot every turn). Awkward.
Also Ahmed is going after Giza too, and I have very few melees in the area.
Meanwhile Theodora digged up two more artifacts in my lands (really sloppy play from me). I asked her to stop, and she obliged. And continued digging.
However, finally I entered the modern area and got my Ideology.
What do I want?
Well, I said before, I want Freedom, because it synergizes the best with my specialist economy. If the Autocracy tenet Military Industrial Coplex was working (I played before reading kungapa's posting) I would have been very, very tempted to take Autocracy just because of that (although +3 from UIs is silly and should be reduced anyway). But none of this really matters because:
It is really not a choice. Freedom it is. Which is fine, but getting no free early adopter tenet really sucks. I delayed the research of important military techs for more than 50 turns while in a gruelling war of attrition to get to ideologies, and as a reward I get nothing. Yeah, that was really bad.
But wait, it gets even better (or worse).
It seems that taking Freedom is the clear pick, but in hindsight it was clearly another huge mistake.
What I should have done is pick order. Sounds crazy, but:
I would have gotten a free tenet, which would have been the free museum in every city. Then, I get a massive wave of unhappiness and can revolt to freedom. I lose the free tenet, but I didn't get one by taking Freedom anyway. But here is the thing: I would have kept the free museum in every city. Ok, there would have been a few turns of anarchy from the switch, but a free museum in every city would have been easily worth it.
I don't think I could have handled Ideologies any worse.
While I am at, what policies do I have?
I started Tradition and completed it.
Then I started Piety and completed it.
After that, I was torn between Rationalism and Comerce, and picked Rationalism. I had enough money (if there is something as enough money), and with science victory as my preferred route, Rationalism seems the correct choice. I have not benefited from the bonus science if the empire is happy a lot, though. But that will hopefully change someday. I am currently going down the the left branch.
And Freedom is my Ideology.
A free policy from an event gave me free hospitals (if Freedom, I always pick public healthcare first. It is the best happiness enhancer, since -20% poverty need is a lot). Avant Garde for more GPs was next.
After that wall of text, for something completely different. Not much to say here but "thanks".
Things are looking up: I am influental enough to make a proposal.
Proposals I am looking for in the future are better GS generation, and boosts to my VC (space) and travel ban against Persia. Not too likely those will pass, but we'll see.
On the border, once I had artilleries things sped up significantly. Giza is already taken, and I finally get Memphis. And look: I am no longer unhappy!
At least briefly. But the cities I take now are good, courthouses come quickly. I'll be fine. Meanwhile, Boudoca tries her luck for the umpteeth time. That lone musket is enough to hold her back though.
Heliopolis is the last city I am going to keep, nice wonders. Machu Picchu even makes the mountains usefull.
And here is Egyptland after the war. The crappy tundra cities were either liberated or razed. And Ramesses is reduced to the crappy city of Akhentaken, which was conquerd and reconquered so many times that there is not a single building left. Here he can spend the rest of the game. I like that it is next to the Celts. It's like having both my victims in the same arctic exile.
I got the powerfull Egyptian core cities and am busy poldering them up.
Quebeck has an uprising, which I use to inflate my influence even more.
And happiness is looking all right now.
Southern Egypt.
Morokko has declared on Polynesia before. Godspeed, Ahmed, but I fear this one ends badly for you. It's been just three turns after he has declared, and he is already pushed back. He will get Samarkand though (for what it's worth).
Long term, I think I will have to fight with Polynesia too. They are Autocracy, hate me and have denounced me already. But right now I am reluctant, because they are like 5 techs ahead.
The core. Note that I have two Great Artists in reserve. I will burn them when I am going after a world project. Hopefully I have gotten the Rationalsm policy that improves science during golden ages by then.
And former Celtica. I am still planning on acquiring Essaouira somehow (peacefully). Ahmed isn't too attached, he offerd it several times in exchange for Fez. But since Fez is my trading city with EIC, i declined every time. Still, if my offer is right, I guess I can get it.
Not the historical site that I have buildt in anticipation of aquiring the city someday, and the manufactury that is pillages for way over 100 turns by now.
And the final turn of the last session. I took the tenet that reduces unhappiness from specialist,and filled every available scientist slot in every city.
Now happiness is fine, science is back up. Exploration of the seas has resumed.
My military is deploying along the Polynesian border, I don't trust them. Still, for this war I would need more troops - the time where a small detatchment of elite units wins a war on their own is passed. But for now Polynesia has enough on their hands. I just hope Ahmed isn't defeated too badly, or I will have to intervene anyway.
I also bought Perisa's maps, it's as bad as I feared, they are huge.
Still, I am quite happy with my empire right now.
I am a bit behind on techs, but will catch up quickly.
The main next steps will be:
Become more influecial in the congress.
Explore and possible colonize the seas.
Get more military on the Polynesian border.
Develope the Egyptian cities.
My chances for victory are decent, I guess.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
I was wrong about the map script -it's not from steam, it's from here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=384109
I started the next session with a terrific deal: I bought the city of Essaouiria for the low, low price of 200 gpt. To raze it.
My adjactent cites got access to a landmark, a manufactury, two Kashbas and Aluminium. Later I found oil on the city site, but unworkable. Of course, all of this will never make up the price in the remaining game, especially since I have to buy the mentioned tiles or an AI will just imedeately resettle there, but I got rid of that abomination in my lands. I would have payed more for that. And hopefully that money will aid Ahmad against the evil Polynesians.
The next turns turn are rather uneventful, I develop my country. Boudica and Ramesses both understand the futility of their martial enterprises and I take their lunch money for peace.
Ahmad really has a hard time in his war, but I am not ready to help him, yet.
I like my cities, but the rest of the worls is seeminngly rather unimpressed.
Ahmad, either with the reinforcements from Samarkand or aided by my money manages to hold the front.
For hundreds of turns, no one in the world cared about Bratislava. Then, just a few turns after I allied it, literally everybody sends his ambassadors in droves. Really, what gives?
Exploring the seas with my four movement ships was tedious. Much more efficient was to buy (cheaply) Byzanz' map. Not much of a new world really, my initial plan would have never worked. Here is one decent archipel (note the landmark that somebody kindly planted there)
The only significant landmass is nothing special, and already claimed anyway.
World congress didn't go well. My proposal failled, and next session I didn't get to make one. And given how well allying with Bratislava went, my diplomatic situation won't improve anytime soon. However, this session is interesting. Since both Worlds Fair and International Games are proposed at the same time, I might get one if I focus on it.
Strangely enough, there are still unclaimed ancient sites around the map. Some even in Persia, and I manage to claim some of them. Sorry Darius.
Then Kamehamea came around with some insult, I made him eat his words, and would you believe it? War. My Muskets are Machineguns by now, and the Polynesian forces are easily shot down, especially since Ahmad also throws some cannon fodder around. I cannot advance really, because I dearly lack melee units. And after the expensive upgrades I could not buy new ones very fast. So currently I dominate the border, but cannot advance fast. And my traderoutes suffer, since they were all either going directly to Polynesia or to Perisa, which is close.
Worlds Fair completed. Darius, man...
Sure Buddy.
I forgot to take a picture, but Bratislava was allied with Polynesia at one time, and declared war on Morokko and me. Being located between the two of us, this did not end well for them. I accidentially had my part of my fleet, lately upgraded to cruisers nearby. Giggling with glee I conquered the CS that everybody has dumped in loads of diplomatic units recently. A guilty pleasure, I'll admit.
On the war front, I liberated Toledo, which somehow became Polynesian (probably sold), and Sidon. Mekenes is switching sides nearly every turn.
Tomorrow I will try to get some melee units and get going. Should be a much faster war than the eternal slog against Egypt. At least I have some positive Happiness to work with.
I started the next session with a terrific deal: I bought the city of Essaouiria for the low, low price of 200 gpt. To raze it.
My adjactent cites got access to a landmark, a manufactury, two Kashbas and Aluminium. Later I found oil on the city site, but unworkable. Of course, all of this will never make up the price in the remaining game, especially since I have to buy the mentioned tiles or an AI will just imedeately resettle there, but I got rid of that abomination in my lands. I would have payed more for that. And hopefully that money will aid Ahmad against the evil Polynesians.
The next turns turn are rather uneventful, I develop my country. Boudica and Ramesses both understand the futility of their martial enterprises and I take their lunch money for peace.
Ahmad really has a hard time in his war, but I am not ready to help him, yet.
I like my cities, but the rest of the worls is seeminngly rather unimpressed.
Ahmad, either with the reinforcements from Samarkand or aided by my money manages to hold the front.
For hundreds of turns, no one in the world cared about Bratislava. Then, just a few turns after I allied it, literally everybody sends his ambassadors in droves. Really, what gives?
Exploring the seas with my four movement ships was tedious. Much more efficient was to buy (cheaply) Byzanz' map. Not much of a new world really, my initial plan would have never worked. Here is one decent archipel (note the landmark that somebody kindly planted there)
The only significant landmass is nothing special, and already claimed anyway.
World congress didn't go well. My proposal failled, and next session I didn't get to make one. And given how well allying with Bratislava went, my diplomatic situation won't improve anytime soon. However, this session is interesting. Since both Worlds Fair and International Games are proposed at the same time, I might get one if I focus on it.
Strangely enough, there are still unclaimed ancient sites around the map. Some even in Persia, and I manage to claim some of them. Sorry Darius.
Then Kamehamea came around with some insult, I made him eat his words, and would you believe it? War. My Muskets are Machineguns by now, and the Polynesian forces are easily shot down, especially since Ahmad also throws some cannon fodder around. I cannot advance really, because I dearly lack melee units. And after the expensive upgrades I could not buy new ones very fast. So currently I dominate the border, but cannot advance fast. And my traderoutes suffer, since they were all either going directly to Polynesia or to Perisa, which is close.
Worlds Fair completed. Darius, man...
Sure Buddy.
I forgot to take a picture, but Bratislava was allied with Polynesia at one time, and declared war on Morokko and me. Being located between the two of us, this did not end well for them. I accidentially had my part of my fleet, lately upgraded to cruisers nearby. Giggling with glee I conquered the CS that everybody has dumped in loads of diplomatic units recently. A guilty pleasure, I'll admit.
On the war front, I liberated Toledo, which somehow became Polynesian (probably sold), and Sidon. Mekenes is switching sides nearly every turn.
Tomorrow I will try to get some melee units and get going. Should be a much faster war than the eternal slog against Egypt. At least I have some positive Happiness to work with.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
I was right with my prediction, even more than I expected. Polynesia folded pretty fast. Even though I was hampered by a hefty unhappiness penalty, and he had air superiority. I played with combat animations off, so I didn't really saw what was going on, but his planes did surprisingly little damage, even though they were completely unopposed. Here's how it looked after a few turns:
The two remaining cities up north were initially from Byzanz, so they were liberated. Look at that unhappiness! Where does it all come from? (Picture from a few turns earlier, but the principles are the same.)
So the defining factor (besides resistance, which will go away) is crime. Unusually, poverty is no big deal - those free hospitals in every city are helping. The great relieving positive factor from events is mostly from the hospital events, where you can get two happiness for 5 gold - a great exchange. Those hospitals are really doing work.
Still, that crime. For a citizen in my empire it is probably safer to be a soldier at the front of a full scale war than to be a resident in a city. I wonder how life is in these cities? You are likely to get assaulted twice on your way to the grocer. Bur you get free treatment in excellent hospitals, so there is that.
Sometimes, however, the rivalties between the local gangs get a little out of hand.
And look at my money - no traderoutes, no money, no income. But Ahmad is a bro.
I rarely get to do this, but here I got the opportunity:
On the diplomatic front, there were resolutions that I agreed on:
Meanwhile, Buadica declared war on Ramesses. While for once she takes on someone of her weight, it is still so bizare that I am lost for words.
I, on the other hand, have pressed through the pass at Raiatea and wont stop as long as there are Polynesian cities on the continent.
If I fight this war, I might as well go al the way, right? Let's see if I can hit three negative digits with my happiness.
But I think I will be fine in the end - those cities will be good soon once the basic infrastructure is rebuildt. And after the war I can send most of my units back to act as garrisons, to combat the outlandish crime unhappiness.
The two remaining cities up north were initially from Byzanz, so they were liberated. Look at that unhappiness! Where does it all come from? (Picture from a few turns earlier, but the principles are the same.)
So the defining factor (besides resistance, which will go away) is crime. Unusually, poverty is no big deal - those free hospitals in every city are helping. The great relieving positive factor from events is mostly from the hospital events, where you can get two happiness for 5 gold - a great exchange. Those hospitals are really doing work.
Still, that crime. For a citizen in my empire it is probably safer to be a soldier at the front of a full scale war than to be a resident in a city. I wonder how life is in these cities? You are likely to get assaulted twice on your way to the grocer. Bur you get free treatment in excellent hospitals, so there is that.
Sometimes, however, the rivalties between the local gangs get a little out of hand.
And look at my money - no traderoutes, no money, no income. But Ahmad is a bro.
I rarely get to do this, but here I got the opportunity:
On the diplomatic front, there were resolutions that I agreed on:
Meanwhile, Buadica declared war on Ramesses. While for once she takes on someone of her weight, it is still so bizare that I am lost for words.
I, on the other hand, have pressed through the pass at Raiatea and wont stop as long as there are Polynesian cities on the continent.
If I fight this war, I might as well go al the way, right? Let's see if I can hit three negative digits with my happiness.
But I think I will be fine in the end - those cities will be good soon once the basic infrastructure is rebuildt. And after the war I can send most of my units back to act as garrisons, to combat the outlandish crime unhappiness.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
I was planning to make this paragraph about how I conquered the rest of Polynesia and climbed out of the resulting happiness hole (-112 at peak).
However...
GG Darius.
So all I can offer is a debriefing.
Did I overexapand? Certainly. But except for the Celtic lands, each war gave me quality lands.
The worst part of the game was the extremely long (even by Marathon standards) happines hole during the Egyptian war. That part I handled really bad. The Polynesian war was executed much better, I won in fraction of the time and recoverd within a couple of turns.
Conquering Celtia was also not very good, all those cities were extremely poor, even Edinburgh. I haven't seen such a sorry capital for a while.
Also, by killing Egypt and Polynesia, which were amongst the most cultured civs, I was Kingmaker for Darius, also something I should have considered.
But in the end, non of that really mattered. Look at this:
There is no arguing with that. Darius had the perfect storm. Leaving Egypt/Polynesia alone, would have delayed it a bit, but in no way long enough for me to win. There was too much going right for him. With no new world on the map, land was quite scarce. And in the time I conquerd two city states of dubious value and Celtic craplands, Darius got all of Ottomans lands and the better part of Brazil. From there on, there was no way he could be stopped or raced in a peaceful way.
A military interaction was also out of the question - too far away and too powerfull. Even if I could get a force over, how would I get reinforcements over through waters full of Persian ships, and how would I advance against that production set on building units? Even more, Egypt and Polynesia were diplomatic outlaws, being Autocracy/Order. Darius was the center of the Freedom lovefest and could have just bribed one or more nations against me at home.
So while i did play less than optimal on some occasions, I think the map would have played out not much differently anyway.
Last things I can say is my evaluation of the Dutch.
The UI ist the stone nuts. It is as good as a UI can be. If you can put in on a tile, you do. It's just that good.
The UA I am much less enthusiastic. Getting culture is nice and all, but it is only empire culture, which does little more than to buy you some policies. So in the end it's just a bad version of the Polish UI, and one that you have to work for. The money part is nice, but while money is something that is never bad, it is also nothing to write home about.
Finally the UU - I had high hopes, but it is just a niche unit. Yes, they are decent at taking coastal cities, but as I experienced, unless said cities are very remote you need frigattes to keep them. And once you have frigattes, you don't really need Sea Beggars that much any more. You definitely want a couple, but they won't be the backbone of your army (navy) like some other UUs can be.
Finally, the UU is a bit at odds with the UI: If there is a lot of water, large riverlands are scarce.
That's all I got for you.
I hope you enjoyed it, despite the abrupt ending.
However...
GG Darius.
So all I can offer is a debriefing.
Did I overexapand? Certainly. But except for the Celtic lands, each war gave me quality lands.
The worst part of the game was the extremely long (even by Marathon standards) happines hole during the Egyptian war. That part I handled really bad. The Polynesian war was executed much better, I won in fraction of the time and recoverd within a couple of turns.
Conquering Celtia was also not very good, all those cities were extremely poor, even Edinburgh. I haven't seen such a sorry capital for a while.
Also, by killing Egypt and Polynesia, which were amongst the most cultured civs, I was Kingmaker for Darius, also something I should have considered.
But in the end, non of that really mattered. Look at this:
There is no arguing with that. Darius had the perfect storm. Leaving Egypt/Polynesia alone, would have delayed it a bit, but in no way long enough for me to win. There was too much going right for him. With no new world on the map, land was quite scarce. And in the time I conquerd two city states of dubious value and Celtic craplands, Darius got all of Ottomans lands and the better part of Brazil. From there on, there was no way he could be stopped or raced in a peaceful way.
A military interaction was also out of the question - too far away and too powerfull. Even if I could get a force over, how would I get reinforcements over through waters full of Persian ships, and how would I advance against that production set on building units? Even more, Egypt and Polynesia were diplomatic outlaws, being Autocracy/Order. Darius was the center of the Freedom lovefest and could have just bribed one or more nations against me at home.
So while i did play less than optimal on some occasions, I think the map would have played out not much differently anyway.
Last things I can say is my evaluation of the Dutch.
The UI ist the stone nuts. It is as good as a UI can be. If you can put in on a tile, you do. It's just that good.
The UA I am much less enthusiastic. Getting culture is nice and all, but it is only empire culture, which does little more than to buy you some policies. So in the end it's just a bad version of the Polish UI, and one that you have to work for. The money part is nice, but while money is something that is never bad, it is also nothing to write home about.
Finally the UU - I had high hopes, but it is just a niche unit. Yes, they are decent at taking coastal cities, but as I experienced, unless said cities are very remote you need frigattes to keep them. And once you have frigattes, you don't really need Sea Beggars that much any more. You definitely want a couple, but they won't be the backbone of your army (navy) like some other UUs can be.
Finally, the UU is a bit at odds with the UI: If there is a lot of water, large riverlands are scarce.
That's all I got for you.
I hope you enjoyed it, despite the abrupt ending.
jma22tb
Prince
Yeah Persia is one of the hardest rolling snowball civs. They don't even need Tradition to get a lot of Golden Ages, and Immortals make them a threat to neighbors immediately.
I enjoyed reading this. I don't play Deity, but it's interesting to see how far behind a player is going to be most of the game and the challenge that comes from that.
I think the only way I'd play Deity would be an optimal Authority civ that can wage war effectively against anybody throughout the game, because it looks like building Wonders as the player or gaining a tech lead is out of the question without conquest.
I enjoyed reading this. I don't play Deity, but it's interesting to see how far behind a player is going to be most of the game and the challenge that comes from that.
I think the only way I'd play Deity would be an optimal Authority civ that can wage war effectively against anybody throughout the game, because it looks like building Wonders as the player or gaining a tech lead is out of the question without conquest.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
Just regular CBP suite.
I have communitas map and tectonic map script showing up in the mods menu, but that wasn't relevant for this game.
I have communitas map and tectonic map script showing up in the mods menu, but that wasn't relevant for this game.
Were you running the beta? What events mod did you use?
Thanks for the posts- I had a lot of fun reading this.
I wanted to chime in on the Dutch UA/UI/UU since I just finished winning an Immortal game with them (or getting very close to winning before some CTD issues kept me from continuing).
UA- I actually like it. Although the culture doesn't contribute to city expansion like you said, it is better than just a few extra policies throughout the game. The accumulated culture also acts as a buffer against ideology pressure in the tourism vs culture war later in the game. I often had ~1/2 of my culture coming from the UA and was often leading in terms of policy acquisition. The extra gold when selling luxes is icing- not game changing but nice none the less.
UI- like you said, very good. Especially with the nice ideology bonuses (other than the previously bugged military industrial complex). Netherlands players should always look for rivers/freshwater when settling cities if possible. Only drawback is that it comes fairly late in the game at Guilds.
UU- I also like this more than you seem to. The ability to capture enemy ships is VERY strong. After a few wars you can end up capturing so many ships that your Navy just becomes humongous without having to actually build the units yourself. The free city attack promotions are nice and all, but capturing other ships is really the strongest aspect, and it is REALLY REALLY strong. Your map was more about large landmasses such that many cities were inland, but map types with more coastal area would probably see the benefit of this UU more.
I think the UA and UU work really well together in a diplomatic game. The more friends you have the more luxes you can trade back and forth. The more CS allies you have the more free luxes you will get (along with the culture). Then, later in the game your UU is awesome for liberating any CSs that were conquered- CSs often spawn on coasts (depending on the map type) so a strong navy is great for liberating them.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
I was playing with 4/23 beta including hotfix. No events other than those that come with the installer.
Good points.
Just to make it clear, I don't want to blame my loss on the Dutch.
I think the greatest mistakes I made were my selected policy trees. I had reasons for all of them, but as the game played out, other choices would have been always better.
Tradition was good initially, but since I expanded so much later (as I often do) I often found myself thinking "I wish I had taken Progress". Progress is much better for my playstyle, especially on large/huge maps.
Piety was all right, as it always is, since it is the most flexible medieval tree. But since I wasn't able to reform, so I was missing the largest part of it's power there.
Rationalism was fine, but it is strongest when you are happy, and I was unhappy nearly all the time since I adapted it. Also Science victory was a lost cause against Persia anyway.
And my mess up with Ideology I have already described above.
Good points.
Just to make it clear, I don't want to blame my loss on the Dutch.
I think the greatest mistakes I made were my selected policy trees. I had reasons for all of them, but as the game played out, other choices would have been always better.
Tradition was good initially, but since I expanded so much later (as I often do) I often found myself thinking "I wish I had taken Progress". Progress is much better for my playstyle, especially on large/huge maps.
Piety was all right, as it always is, since it is the most flexible medieval tree. But since I wasn't able to reform, so I was missing the largest part of it's power there.
Rationalism was fine, but it is strongest when you are happy, and I was unhappy nearly all the time since I adapted it. Also Science victory was a lost cause against Persia anyway.
And my mess up with Ideology I have already described above.
Der_Zorn_gottes
King
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2003
- Messages
- 774
I checked, but I don't have it any more.
