The Power of Bismarck: Tradition Vs. Progress.

[DaniSciB]

Hey guys. So, Germany has a very interesting kit, they are ovbiously focused on Diplomacy and at first glance they would work very well with Tradition and Progress.

Tradition benefits thanks to the extra yields in the Capital and GAP from the UA

Progress benefits thanks to the Hanse, the amazing UB of Germany.

Now, the brutal synergy between the Hanse and Progress is one that at the same time is ideal for a Diplo Game. As IMO a Diplo Victory is easier if you are an economic super power and have a ridiculous amount of hammers, this can be achieved easily with Progress/Statecraft/Industry combo.

On the other hand, Tradition will benefit more from the UA, making your Capital truly terrific, giving you an edge early on and the Hanse will help you to have a nice economy and a very up to date sattelite cities. (You won't need a super economy since you are playing tall, but you might get it anyways)

For Ideologies I think Freedom is the default for a Diplo Victory even if you go Wide, I would like to know your thoughts about this too btw.

How do you play as Germany?, Which policy is the most efficient for them generally speaking?.

 

[TaylorItaly]

I am not a profi /deity player , but the one thing i really like with my Germans , is the possibility to catch barbarians ,
which have the "embarkable" promotion in the very early game phase.
With this method i can explore the map way before other nations research Fishing.
I allways play huge 140*90 maps , so there is a lot to discover....

 

[andersw]

Hey guys. So, Germany has a very interesting kit, they are ovbiously focused on Diplomacy and at first glance they would work very well with Tradition and Progress.

Tradition benefits thanks to the extra yields in the Capital and GAP from the UA

Progress benefits thanks to the Hanse, the amazing UB of Germany.

Now, the brutal synergy between the Hanse and Progress is one that at the same time is ideal for a Diplo Game. As IMO a Diplo Victory is easier if you are an economic super power and have a ridiculous amount of hammers, this can be achieved easily with Progress/Statecraft/Industry combo.

On the other hand, Tradition will benefit more from the UA, making your Capital truly terrific, giving you an edge early on and the Hanse will help you to have a nice economy and a very up to date sattelite cities. (You won't need a super economy since you are playing tall, but you might get it anyways)

For Ideologies I think Freedom is the default for a Diplo Victory even if you go Wide, I would like to know your thoughts about this too btw.

How do you play as Germany?, Which policy is the most efficient for them generally speaking?.

(Emperor diff and below.)
I've played authority Germany, probably not most optimal but yes Hanse scales very nice with wide and authority allows you to remove Austria/Siam/Greece if they are in the game (which can be done at these difficulties).
All three "better" diplo civs who will likely steal your cs.
So authority -> statecraft and I'm torn on the third, I consider Industry better in the long term but there are ofc short term benefits of imperialism.
Panzers are sooo strong if the game goes that far.

 

[gozar]

Your logic makes sensebut overlooks most important element for Germany: survival. It is arguably the weakest civ in the early eras. I forget who said it, but the best description for Germany is "if your empire is not on fire by the time you get Panzers, you win."

On higher difficulties, I can only make Germany work with authority. I have never been able to survive as a Tradition Germany on Deity or even Immortal. Progress might work if you stay settle defensively and avoid provoking neighbors, but then it will be hard to keep enough troops to deter your neighbors into DOWing you and plundering the vulnerable caravans going to city states. I found that the war bonus from Authority and the culture/science from slaughtering the waves of attackers coming to attack Germany was best way to stay in the game until the Hanse comes online and the free troops help deter neighbors as a mount a comeback.

 

[KaoticKanine]

For the longest time, I've tried to make Tradition Germany work to max out the yields to the capital. But even if I settle super defensively, getting DoW'd with no way to push back is nothing short of crippling for City-State diplomacy; either you can't send out diplomatic units (that would get killed by the enemy soldiers along the way) or your few ally City-States gets steamrolled by the enemy because you lack the military might to really help them. Makes me wonder how Austria is able to succeed as a "Tradition Diplomacy Civ", but of course I've heard that Authority Austria is beastly, so...

In any case, Progress Germany would be the ideal approach. But in practice, Authority seems the best bet for Germany; makes up for their pitiful early game by giving them the ability to cripple their neighbors early and gain a dominant position early on. And as I experienced in my attempt at Authority Germany, it's really easy to make CS allies with that policy tree o_O I got three allies without even trying. Which is ironic, since Authority depends on tributing for Culture, but what do I know?

If you play with 3rd and 4th UC's, Authority is especially the prime choice for Germany: not only giving them the Slaganz (Warrior replacement that can convert Barbarians to your side, and doing so grants Influence to the nearest CS) but also the Teutonic Order, a much better Heroic Epic that improves Barracks and Castles, as well as grants Faith on kills

 

[Drakle]

Makes me wonder how Austria is able to succeed as a "Tradition Diplomacy Civ", but of course I've heard that Authority Austria is beastly, so...

Tradition Austria doesn't have to stay small. More cities hurt tourism and can hurt Culture and Science. But as Austria, you aren't going for a Tourism or Science victory. You are going for a diplomatic victory. The extra GP generation in the capital isn't hurt by more cities, it is helped if those cities help fulfil city-state quests, and generate gold for marriages. The only major issue from extra cities is happiness.