The worth of each factor

[TROOPERBLUE]

Assuming that all decisions on the Social Engineering are equal and = to 1.

Then you have 9 Equations and 10 unknowns which are listed and solved below as the following:

A = Efficiency
B = Morale
C = Police
D = Planet
E = Economy
F = Growth
G = Industry
H = Probe
I = Research
J = Support

Police State -2A + 2C + 2J
Democratic 2A + 2F - 2J
Fundamentalist B + 2H – 2I
Free Market – 5C – 3D + 2E
Planned -2A + 2F + G
Green 2A + 2D – 2F
Power 2B – 2G + 2J
Knowledge A – 2H + 2I
Wealth -2B + E + G

x1 = 1/2
x2 = 3/2
x3 = 2/3
x4 = 1/3
x5 = 8/3
x6 = 1/3
x7 = 4/3
x8 = 1 x9 +(-1/4)
x9 = arbitrary
x10 = 1/3

 

[Fifty]

Practicing your intro to Linear Algebra homework using SMAC?

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

What I found interesting about this is:

1. With this knowledge of how much each factor is worth, you can add up the long term benefits of each faction and choose accordingly..... or
2. If you find a difference between how much the program says it is worth and how you value it, you can take advantadge of that in the social engineering. -- this uses assumptions that all social engineering are picks are the same and the faction you choose is different.

Also, it suprised me that Planet for example in comparison to other picks is valued Relatively Low while other choices are Relatively High....

Without including certain faction benefits besides these long term factors, the Spartans are worth the most while the Hive is worth the least, just based on these mathematical factors.... and if you decide to be the Spartans based on that info (to maximize their effects).... only certain possibliltes that present themselves are worthwhile to consider, for example Police State and Power (for Support, Police, and Morale) or Planned Power (to negate the -industry with Growth and Morale) or even Fundamentalist, Knowledge if you feel like "playing it safe" without any minuses, but it is important to pick something with choices and it is important not to Maximize any minuses like Police State and Planned (-4 effic) sucks! or Democratic Free Market also isnt good, but these are just assumptions....

Please tell me yours opinions!

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

Calculations of the Factions from these above Values (Doesnt include faction bonuses / minuses that impact it outside of these 10 factors directly)

Gaian:
1 -3/2 - 2/3 + 1/3 = -5/6
Hive:
-16/3 + 1/3 + 4/3 = -11/6
Univ:
Arbitrary
Morgan:
8/3 - 1/3 = +7/3
Spartans:
3 + 2/3 - 4/3 = +7/3
Believers
2/3 - 1/3 + Arb = +1/3 + Arbitrary
PeaceKeepers:
= -1/2


So, Given that all Social Engineering Changes are equal then it is a tie between the Morgans and the Spartans; and the Hive is the worst off -- not including factors outside of the original 10.

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

also, after considering either the Morgans or the Spartans, then:

If you value Police State, Green, and Power (set those equations = to 3 and other equations = to 0) then the Morgans = 39.5 and the Spartans = 32. (Spartans have something Special here bonus wise and that is Police State Doubled, so actual total is Higher)
If you value Police State, Green, and Wealth with the Morgans (same idea), that = 29 (but note a +2 Econ is significatly better than a +1 Econ, so the actual point total may be more!)
If you value Democratic, Planned, and Power (same idea) with the Spartans, that = 5.5

So, I think the 1st 3 options are viable from the 4 listed (dont know which one is best), but it is interesting to see the calculations in Action!

 

[beetle]

Assuming that all decisions on the Social Engineering are equal and = to 1.

I think that is a huge flaw.

The only SE aspect that is really linear is industry. (-3 = +30% mineral cost, +2 = -20%, etc.) Most of the other aspects have certain sweet spots, for example +2 economy >> than +1, but +3 economy is about the same as +2. Others depend on how big your bases are, how much trade you have going on, etc. For bases size 4 or less, +2 support (support base size number of units) == +1 support (support 4 units for free).

How are you fitting in Lal's +1 talent per base into this equation?

 

[Symphony D.]

I think that is a huge flaw.

Agree, particularly as some stats (eg: Efficiency, Growth) can be worth far more than others.

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

Lal's +1 Talent would probably be equal to Morgan's +1 Economy Rating..... but that is just a guess.

 

[beetle]

Lal's +1 Talent would probably be equal to Morgan's +1 Economy Rating..... but that is just a guess.

No, it worth far more. An extra talent improves police, economy, growth, and research.

Most of the leader attributes (+1 Planet, +1 Support, etc.) are easy enough to fit into your calculations. Other things, like free prototypes, stealing technology, or non-blind research, not so much.

 

[Diviner]

oh, hive is the far worst faction in these calculations, because of the -2 economy. but -2 economy subtracts only one energy in base squares. that is not the opposite effect of the +2 economy (which gives plus energy in every square and tus much better) so it's not linear.

also the points of efficiency is sometimes much more important then the economy bonuses.

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

but, I also agree with the (notion) or concept of Sweet Spots, So, if Wealth doesnt give you a +2 Econ then Knowledge is better. Also, if you cant choose Police State because of Efficiency, then Fundamentalist is the correct choice to make because of Morale and Probe.

Also, the last post is correct about the Hive... even though they have a -2 Econ, it isnt that bad because it is only -1 Energy per base which effictively pays for the Free Perimeter Defense at each base.... the Hive is a good choice, but it doesnt pay to be the hive and Choose Free Market and/or Wealth.

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

Quick Question -- How does Lal's Extra Talent add to Research?!

I can see Economy and Growth because if you get to Golden Age (Lal takes it half way there) One per 4 citizens (2 out of 4 needed) As far as Police is concerned, not directly.... (I would just state that his Happy bonus adds to the Golden Age!) -- Police is something else, but you can absorb 1 unhappy person from the extra happy, if that is what you mean.

 

[Diviner]

well, wealth isn't always a bad choice with the hive. if you have so many cities it is a little economy boost. (-1 econ subtracts 1 energy only form he HQ, its totally negligible), but the main point of this value is the plus industry. police/planned/wealth and you have +3 industry, which is as you also calculated a worthy thing. the morale minus could be handled by training high morale squads and this won't be much more expensive, because you will build it faster (again the industry)

 

[beetle]

Quick Question -- How does Lal's Extra Talent add to Research?!

I can see Economy and Growth because if you get to Golden Age (Lal takes it half way there) One per 4 citizens (2 out of 4 needed) As far as Police is concerned, not directly.... (I would just state that his Happy bonus adds to the Golden Age!) -- Police is something else, but you can absorb 1 unhappy person from the extra happy, if that is what you mean.

I think the growth bonus happens only with the Golden Age. And yes, the extra talent making the Golden Age easier is extremely valuable.

I thought talents, as compared to ordinary worker, contributed more to both economy (especially via trade) and research? Am I mistaken about that? Not as much as specialists, but more than workers. (And I thought drones are zero for each. These bonuses are beyond the default for working tiles.)

Police is there because each talent counterbalances a drone. (As oppose to + Police SE effect that allows a military unit to turn two drones into workers.)

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

The Hive -- although they cant get the Super Economy Bonus early on of +2 Econ Rating, may have an advantadge over the other factions and that is a Planned Economy, they dont have to suffer the -2 to Efficiency, effictively doubleing the worth of the pick of a Planned Economy for them, which makes them awesome!

Question -- Are there any other picks from the Social Engineering where any Faction recieves an advantadge over any other faction for picking it? Because, if so, that would be reason to pick that faction and play them just for that reason.

Hive - Planned Economy advantage (-2 Effic. not)
Morgan, (maybe PeaceKeepers if Golden Age) - Wealth advantage (+2 Econ)
Spartans - Police State Advantadge (Doubled)

cant think of the others? but the above 4, i definately have an excuse or a logical reason to play them.

 

[TROOPERBLUE]

With the Concept of "Sweet Spots" known, and with the fair Value points given.... especially with the cheaper ones (it might be more worthwhile to get), like Growth has a Sweet Spot of +6 and is valued Very Cheaply. (but with a significant sweet spot [doubled growth]).... while some of the more expensive ones, Morale for example has diminishing returns the higher it gets, its sweet spot might be at +1.