Thoughts About Australian Civilization

Bkeela

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Since Brazil is an official Civ VI civilization, it seems more likely that Australia might be considered - at least with later DLC, so I hope there is still time to influence Firaxis so that it might be an optimal inclusion.

I've reviewed the specs of the Australia Civilization mod for Civ V, and I feel it could be improved.

Firstly, it features several unique buildings, one of which is the Refugee Programme!? Is this a joke? Refugee Detention Centre would be a much more appropriate. The modern era building is the Tourism Department, which is just too generic, but definitely headed in the right direction.

The unique Australian building I would suggest would be associated with the surf life saving movement, which was first established in 1907 - a world first. It could be represented with the beach watchtower, or beach clubhouse. It would obviously give some kind of tourism or happiness bonus.

This is a more appropriate choice than Tourism Department, as it is strongly associated with the Australian beach and tourist culture.

Edit: Actually the R.S.L Club/Leagues Club might also be an appropriate unique building, giving an economic bonus.

As for the leader, I think Edmund Barton is more suitable than Henry Parkes. For one thing he was the first national leader. But for a less venerable, and more iconic and colourful leader, you couldn't go past Billy Hughes.

The unique military unit I think should be the Light Horse. For once thing, it was an official army regiment. Diggers on the other hand were not unique to Australia, were not an official regiment but just a slang term given to infantry, and were not as prestigious as the Light Horse.

I think Australia should be included at some point officially, but definitely needs a bit of research on the part of Firaxis.
 
Yes, and while we're at it why not Canada? Or Western Sahara? Or Lichtenstein? :rolleyes: Nation-state =/= civilization. Brazil is at least culturally distinctive. What makes Australia different enough from England to be worth including? While dubious, even an Aboriginal Australian civilization would make more sense than the nation of Australia.
 
Yes, and while we're at it why not Canada? Or Western Sahara? Or Lichtenstein? :rolleyes: Nation-state =/= civilization. Brazil is at least culturally distinctive. What makes Australia different enough from England to be worth including? While dubious, even an Aboriginal Australian civilization would make more sense than the nation of Australia.

Seriously, no more post-colonial nations Firaxis! At least not for a few years. Two is more than enough.
 
Yes, and while we're at it why not Canada? Or Western Sahara? Or Lichtenstein? :rolleyes: Nation-state =/= civilization. Brazil is at least culturally distinctive. What makes Australia different enough from England to be worth including? While dubious, even an Aboriginal Australian civilization would make more sense than the nation of Australia.

+1
agreed
even today Australia considers queen of England to be its leader
:p
 
What makes Australia different enough from England to be worth including? .

Haha! Say that in a good number of RSLs or outback bars, let me know how you go ;)

Ummm, but if you want a serious answer, without reference to AC/DC or Holdens.... Less "high" culture, to be sure. We have had a few "high" artists and writers (Patrick White, Thomas Keneally) but its true, even our most successful cultural icons are anti high culture (Barry Humphries).

How else would we be different? Definitely, Australia would be a wide civ. Lots of wide open spaces and a number of cities, but sydney and melbourne dont have the population of London. Population overall is a fraction of England, even though the land area is huuuuuge. So, a discount on the culture needed to expand borders.

Anyway, I wouldnt really want to see Australia as a civ. Sydney works well as a city state, I'd just have it left at that.
 
I don't want to go into the debate whether a country is "good enough" for the game, who knows maybe we get a modern nations DLC with Australia, Canada, Argentina etc.

I'm not expert on Australia but for me Australia is the aboriginal people, the unique animals and nature. Also they fought in both World Wars and had a trial by fire in Gallipoli.

Australia

Unique Ability:
Some sort of bonuses for Natural wonders and National parks etc.

Unique unit: Paman Warrior
Spoiler :
Pic.%20Aboriginal.JPG


Unique Improvement: Marine Biological center

Leader: Billy Hughes (heh not sure about this one)

Leader's Unique unit: ANZAC infantry
Spoiler :
4144184828_d4456d9633_b.jpg
 
I don't want to go into the debate whether a country is "good enough" for the game, who knows maybe we get a modern nations DLC with Australia, Canada, Argentina etc.

I'm not expert on Australia but for me Australia is the aboriginal people, the unique animals and nature. Also they fought in both World Wars and had a trial by fire in Gallipoli.

Australia

Unique Ability:
Some sort of bonuses for Natural wonders and National parks etc.

Unique unit: Paman Warrior
Spoiler :
Pic.%20Aboriginal.JPG


Unique Improvement: Marine Biological center

Leader: Billy Hughes (heh not sure about this one)

Leader's Unique unit: ANZAC infantry
Spoiler :
4144184828_d4456d9633_b.jpg
...Wouldn't that be the equivalent of rolling Native Americans into America?
 
Since Brazil is an official Civ VI civilization, it seems more likely that Australia might be considered - at least with later DLC, so I hope there is still time to influence Firaxis so that it might be an optimal inclusion.

I've reviewed the specs of the Australia Civilization mod for Civ V, and I feel it could be improved.

Firstly, it features several unique buildings, one of which is the Refugee Programme!? Is this a joke? Refugee Detention Centre would be a much more appropriate. The modern era building is the Tourism Department, which is just too generic, but definitely headed in the right direction.

The unique Australian building I would suggest would be associated with the surf life saving movement, which was first established in 1907 - a world first. It could be represented with the beach watchtower, or beach clubhouse. It would obviously give some kind of tourism or happiness bonus.

This is a more appropriate choice than Tourism Department, as it is strongly associated with the Australian beach and tourist culture.

Edit: Actually the R.S.L Club/Leagues Club might also be an appropriate unique building, giving an economic bonus.

As for the leader, I think Edmund Barton is more suitable than Henry Parkes. For one thing he was the first national leader. But for a less venerable, and more iconic and colourful leader, you couldn't go past Billy Hughes.

The unique military unit I think should be the Light Horse. For once thing, it was an official army regiment. Diggers on the other hand were not unique to Australia, were not an official regiment but just a slang term given to infantry, and were not as prestigious as the Light Horse.

I think Australia should be included at some point officially, but definitely needs a bit of research on the part of Firaxis.

I too am in favor of seeing Australia among other industrial/modern age Civs included in the series. Especially those who broke off their colonial chains. The modern age is our age and this series should recognize the cultures that have emerged over the last 100-200 years and beyond. Afterall this is a game predicated on progressing though time and into the curent age. Certainly it makes sense to grant Civhood to states that reflect the times we live in.

Mexico- Benito Juarez-So much great culture, tradition, people, and the best food in the world.

Colombia- Simon Bolivar-Just as influentual as any in the region including Brazil. Simon Bolivar himself is the very symbol of anti-colonial ferver.

Canada, Phillipines, Australia also should be recognized for their great societies and cultures.
 
Well, I have nothing against colonial civs, but I think there are better options to be added in the game before Australia, even among the colonial civs (Canada, Mexico and Argentina have better chances to be in civ, in my opinion)

In civ5 Australia was well represented in its own way. It had 2 cities states (Sydney and Melbourne) 2 Natural Wonders (Uluru and the Great Barrier Reef) and 1 world wonder (Opera House)

I do not think we will see a colonial civ again for a long time, perhaps when many older civs are added, we can see more some colonial civ.
 
Well, I have nothing against colonial civs, but I think there are better options to be added in the game before Australia, even among the colonial civs (Canada, Mexico and Argentina have better chances to be in civ, in my opinion)

In civ5 Australia was well represented in its own way. It had 2 cities states (Sydney and Melbourne) 2 Natural Wonders (Uluru and the Great Barrier Reef) and 1 world wonder (Opera House)

I do not think we will see a colonial civ again for a long time, perhaps when many older civs are added, we can see more some colonial civ.

Personally, I think city-states are the absolute best way to depict modern nation-states in the game.
 
Australia seems like a very terrible choice to me.

The colonisers fit well enough as CS, the aboriginals were never an important power and didn't even have a single city, which instantly makes them a not-civilisation if we apply most pre-"inclusive" definitions. They also lacked most technologies which are needed to call someone a civilisation by the same definitions. Compared to them, the Zulu of Shaka time were super scientists.

It would just be diversity for the sake of diversity, one biological, the other related tojust filling different map areas. I don't want to see them myself and would not buy neither an aboriginal nor colonist Australia

The only way I'd buy Australia DLC alone is if it were lead by a Kangaroo and its unique unit was a koala with a shotgun riding a huge spider.
Spoiler :
Or, perhaps if it became a prerequisite for some cool mods later on.
 
Like the idea of Surf Life Savers or RSL.

I'd probably have someone like Bob Hawke and have his leader bonus as free 50 point heal of units (no turn lost).

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
 
Warning: Long Post :crazyeye:

Since Brazil is an official Civ VI civilization, it seems more likely that Australia might be considered - at least with later DLC, so I hope there is still time to influence Firaxis so that it might be an optimal inclusion.

I've reviewed the specs of the Australia Civilization mod for Civ V, and I feel it could be improved.

Firstly, it features several unique buildings, one of which is the Refugee Programme!? Is this a joke? Refugee Detention Centre would be a much more appropriate. The modern era building is the Tourism Department, which is just too generic, but definitely headed in the right direction.

The unique Australian building I would suggest would be associated with the surf life saving movement, which was first established in 1907 - a world first. It could be represented with the beach watchtower, or beach clubhouse. It would obviously give some kind of tourism or happiness bonus.

This is a more appropriate choice than Tourism Department, as it is strongly associated with the Australian beach and tourist culture.

Edit: Actually the R.S.L Club/Leagues Club might also be an appropriate unique building, giving an economic bonus.

As for the leader, I think Edmund Barton is more suitable than Henry Parkes. For one thing he was the first national leader. But for a less venerable, and more iconic and colourful leader, you couldn't go past Billy Hughes.

The unique military unit I think should be the Light Horse. For once thing, it was an official army regiment. Diggers on the other hand were not unique to Australia, were not an official regiment but just a slang term given to infantry, and were not as prestigious as the Light Horse.

I think Australia should be included at some point officially, but definitely needs a bit of research on the part of Firaxis.

Author of the original Australian civ mod here (or at least, the one you're referring to). The mod you are referencing is seriously old WIP version of the mod on this website that I probably should've deleted long, long ago. Nevertheless the current version of our Civ mod is pretty damn different to when it started out. You can see the current UA design as it stands is completely different from when it was released a few years ago:

Boundless Plains to Share: Settlers found :c5puppet: Puppeted cities that generate +1 :tourism: Tourism. +1 :tourism: Tourism for each outgoing :trade: Naval Trade Route. Cities that generate +2 :tourism: Tourism or more expand :c5culture: Cultural Borders twice as fast.

We also still have the Prime Minister and the Digger as a the unique civ picks. I can understand why they in particular might seem like lazy attribute choices, but they were actually concious design choices. Our aim isn't actually really to 100% replicate a Firaxis made civ, which tend to be more on the bland and flavourless side. In general, what we do is inject our mods with really high dosages of flavour somewhat to prove that these civs are worthy of being looked at. In a sense Civ allows for a pretty decent platform to serve as a quasi-educational tool to highlight unique peoples, struggles, stories, civilizations and cultures not dictated by what's taught in standardized history textbooks.

With Aus, the job was to make them full of flavour by including Henry Parkes as an unconventional choice. That way we can essentially tell the story of Australia's founding and eventual federation. Founding the colonies, and then annexing them later on when mutual cooperation is beneficial is supposed to be akin to federating the separate colonies. Barton almost seems like the logical choice, and I'm also somewhat biased towards Barton because we're apparently related - but I think I'd prefer Curtin or Deakin if not for Parkes. The Digger was a pick to represent the Boer War-WW1 era soldiers, but I agree - I think we are due for a change. I like the idea of the CAC Boomerang or the Light Horse.

With regards to the leader choice, Parkes wasn't the leader of Australia, but he was the leader of the colony of NSW for over six terms. The mod is intended to replicate founding the different colonies of Australia, then uniting them in federation. This is also why we made Sydney the Capital, since it's the oldest, first and one of the most important historical cities in Australia, but also the Capital of NSW (where Parkes is starting is to convince others to federate over time). Canberra would probably be our capital if we're going for a leader like Curtin (which is what we did for the specifically WW2 Australia mod).

In regards to Canberra also, if you have Events and Decisions installed, there is this unique decision:

Resolve the Capital Dispute Edit

Our two great cities, Sydney and Melbourne, have been at loggerheads as to which should be the national capital since the process of federation began. Such madness cannot be allowed to continue if we are to remain unified as a nation. Perhaps a different solution is called for…

Requirements/Restrictions:

- Player must be Australia
- Must have founded four Cities
- All Australian cities must be annexed
- May only be enacted once per game

Costs:

- 500 :c5culture: Culture
- 1000 :c5gold: Gold
- 2 Magistrates

Rewards:

- The fourth city founded by Australia becomes the Capital Capital
- A Prime Minister appears in the new Capital Capital
- A :c5goldenage: Golden Age begins
- Cultural :c5greatperson: Great People generation rate increased by 25%

We also picked the Prime Ministers (which have the ability upon appearing - cayses all non-puppeted coastal cities to yield +1 Tourism Tourism per owned land tile outside workable limits) as a Unique to represent and showcase the endearing legacy of Parkes' work. If we were given the task however to blueprint official Civ V DLC for Australia... then we definitely would tone down the flavour and leave most to the Civilopedia. However Civ VI presents us with the opportunity to really expand, because it allows us to import lots of flavour without trying too hard :p.

Since Civ VI is also going for characters, Parkes is imo definitely the best choice. Parkes was such an interesting distinctive (dat beard) colonial character, he started out as a penniless uneducated immigrant, made a career for himself, wrote bad poetry, and eventually became the most commanding figure in Australian politics. As a leader he was this massive blend of egotism, vanity and deep egalitarianism.... which to be honest lol I think represents more Australians than not. Being able to represent that sort of idealistic uniquely Australian character with a well done accent (and beard) in Civ VI sounds like a pretty exciting project for Colonialist Legacies in the future.

---

I'll post bellow our current design plan for Australia in Civ VI if modding allows for it. We're cautiously optimistic, but it helps to be ready to work on something in the mean time and the entire design process is pretty fun. It'd be good to have some more eyes and feedback on what we should include or trim down in terms of balance and design. Also for that reason, I included a few more mechanics than usual to see what is preferred and what should be trimmed. Everything is subject to change at this point.

Civilization VI - The Australian Commonwealth

UA Name: Boundless Plains to Share
UA Trait: :c5culture: Border Growth increased in Cities further away from the Capital. :trade: Trade Route length limitations ignored when sending Internal Trade Routes to Cities on the same continent.
Leader: Henry Parkes
Spoiler :
LeYphdU.jpg
[/IMG]
irXwdv1.png

Leader UA: Gain +5% :tourism: Tourism output from each Natural Wonder tile if the City containing them is connected to the :c5capital: Capital. First City founded in the Modern Era is founded with additional Population and becomes the :c5capital: Capital.
Leader Agenda Name: Mateship and Camaraderie
Leader Agenda Trait: Loyal and friendly to frequent trade partners. Will often follow friends with larger armies into wars.
Unique Unit: Digger - Fights more effectively overseas, and has the ability to construct roads. Replaces the Great War Infantry. alt. Kokoda Trailman, Light Horse, Boomerang (CAC).
Unique Infrastructure: Gaol (building) - Has additional housing, and gains a :c5food: Food Growth bonus for every Foreign Trade Route sent to the City. Foreign Cities sending a Trade Route to a City containing a Gaol receive additional Amenities. Abilities (including housing) obsolete when entering the Modern Era, at which point the building generates Tourism. alt. CSIRO Lab, Station (as in Outback Stations), Colonial Parliament

At this point I'm trying to decide whether or not to head down as flavourful storied a route for as we did in Civ V, to make it somewhat more approachable and accessible.

---

Also guys, please never make mods that combine Indigenous Aboriginal Cultures with an Australian Culture... things get reductionist super quickly. Individual Aboriginal peoples deserve civ representation in their own right. :shifty:
 
TPangolin where is the current civ VI Aussie plan? Or do you mean you post it later?
 
Thanks for that insightful post TPangolin. I hope I didn't offend you or anything.

As for those who don't want obscure 'colonial civilizations', I feel the need to point out that unlike Western Sahara and Lichtenstein, Australia is an economically significant nation with some of the biggest mining corporations in the world. We have made our stamp in conflicts ranging from the Boer War through to Korea and Vietnam wars, and we are a dominant sporting nation, hitting well above our weight. Not only that, I think Australia would make a fun and colourful addition, with the only problem in my thinking trying to come up with a unique building.

Anyway, since Polystralia is a part of civ canon, it makes sense to have Australia included if Polynesia shall also be included at some stage.

By all means no time and resources should be taken away from first establishing the classic civilizations. Australia, if it is ever included, should probably be DLC or something.

I applaud the efforts of modders like TPangolin, but it sure would be nice to have the animated leader that only Firaxis can do.
 
TPangolin where is the current civ VI Aussie plan? Or do you mean you post it later?

It's there in the post.
 
Oops I somehow missed it!

Looks good, especially the Leader and Civ UAs.
Like it how it takes the nature and geography of Australia into the theme.

I like the digger too but also some sort of fortify bonus might be good, as in battle of Gallipoli and defending Tobruk against Afrika korps :)
 
A simple idea: unique could just be a pasture improvement called "the station", which grants a border expansion multiplier.

I'd love to see unique units that reflect how we've fought in overseas conflicts, but if we were game-ified our uniques really should reflect us in peace as well.
 
Yes, and while we're at it why not Canada? Or Western Sahara? Or Lichtenstein? :rolleyes: Nation-state =/= civilization. Brazil is at least culturally distinctive. What makes Australia different enough from England to be worth including? While dubious, even an Aboriginal Australian civilization would make more sense than the nation of Australia.

You'd object to having Austria and Germany then?
 
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