Tips for Monarch play - Tech prioritization

[escream1]

Hello civfanatics!

I've been reading this forum for a few months and finally decided to open a thread.

So, Civ4 is obviously the best game of all time and I have been having a lot of fun winning games (basically almost all of them) on Prince level!
I decided to take it to the next level and try to play Monarch and this level is definitely more demanding!

There is lots of very good advice in these forums, but this is where I'm a little puzzled: most of the "high-level" advice seems to be geared towards even higher level of difficulties, especially when it comes to tech prioiritization.

Let me illustrate:
I was playing a Pangea map the other day (quite rare for me, but I was going for random script). So you meet every single civilization very fast.
Most experts here seem to strongly suggest the following teching plan:
- worker techs
- Alphabet!!
- Fill up on cheap techs by trading
- Currency for trades and Aesthetics for trade bait
- Trade for important techs like Mathematics etc.

While this must certainly work in Immortal games where AIs are even more advanced, at Monarch level my feeling is that this strat just gets me to Maths too late. Indeed, the civs that have it don't want to trade it away "just yet" and the same goes for iron working or other important techs.
I end up waiting for too long or teching it myself, because either the happy resources from Calendar are crucial for me (unless I go for Monarchy, but the same applies here, to a lesser extent) or I want to get to Construction first and fast!

Do any of you guys have experience with the Monarch level and have any specific advice for this difficulty level? I know that if people are able to compete against much more advanced AIs in higher difficulty levels, I should be able to compete easy here, but it just seems that getting Alphabet so soon is kind of a waste at this level.

I have a similar question for religious techs. Another recent thread establishes that teching the early religious techs yourself is a waste most of the time and I agree. Nevertheless, in the list of useful wonders, The Oracle always seems to stand out. And it is a good wonder indeed, in terms of hammers-to-commerce ratio as well as teching speed. But it just seems impossible to me to build the Oracle before any other AI without researching the techs yourself and early enough (even as an Industrious leader). At least that's my experience at Monarch.
Any hints here?

Anyways, big thanks to all the regulars on these forums that keep this game alive ten years later! I couldn't believe it when I started playing again a few months ago (I'm an old player who was hooked 25 years ago already ) and went back to this site.

 

[civfanchambers]

The "alphabet gambit" is less effective at monarch and below. More of a higher lvl play technique. I play monarch/prince lvl games. Typically I get the worker techs needed, then pottery, race to priesthood to build Oracle. While building the Oracle I research writing then alpha using the Oracle to spring board me to either currency, Col, or metal casting depending on game circumstances. This of course changes if I see an opportunity for an early rush. But bronze working isn't to be ignored either. I consider BW a building tech not worker tech. BW "slavery+chopping" is the foundation of civ4 game play. I'll leave it to higher lvl players than myself to provide more specific advice. Btw welcome to the forums.

 

[Fippy]

Yep..play Emp or Imm
Best advice imo, Monarch offers only weak AIs and if you are already advanced enuf to notice stuff like you described it's not getting better or more fun.

Soft jump between those difficulties, nothing scary but now you can get some interesting stuff going (like Alpha).

edit: Oracle imo it's useful when there's nothing better to do, or when your start is so good that you might build that as well.
For Monarch you are not gaining that much cos techs are cheaper, unless you can oracle something great like CS.
It's really not that great when comparing investment vs. gain otherwise, you need those Reli techs and you need 150 hammers (unless marble, Ind). Coastal, GLH is much stronger and with stone Pyramids are usually better.

 

[Macksideshow]

Nothing wrong with going Maths -> Currency and then trading for Alphabet if you don't think the AIs will tech faster than yourself.

 

[civfanchambers]

I like racing to the Oracle to get free metal casting for early forges. Comparatively at that era of techs metal casting is expensive. If on the other hand I rex I like using the Oracle to get currency for trade routes.

 

[Takesitez]

Most frequent posters on here can barely remember the way monarch plays I bet
I'm a bad player compared to most on here, but I think the last monarch game I played was in 2006

I think I'll second Fippy's advice : If you are noticing and analyzing your play to this level you should probably move up to emperor (to warmup and get comfortable) and then play Immortal to feel the challenge a bit.

That said, alot of the in-depth worker management/economics/politics banter etc that goes on around here is for the most part only tangentally linked to the higher levels. If you apply these techniques or are at least aware of them, you will soon crush Monarch unless you are playing very specific 'challenge' cooked maps.

My 'on key' advice for monarch is this : Try to apply the expansion/econ techniques that have often been discussed in this forum to see how many cities you can have by 0 AD, and build no wonders whilst doing so. Pretend Tech trading doesn't matter (don't focus on alpha, get the expansion techs, selftech math for 30% better chops fueling your expansion, make sure to get currency to keep you afloat, learn to use the whip to keep your pop and expenses down and your production up during the expansion phase, if going really wide/tall get COL to limit expenses -although that's only important in extreme cases).... etc). If you do it even semi correctly, you will crush the AI so hard AND get the techlead 500 years later, and probably still build most classical age wonders just because the AI is so slow The reason why there ain't no Monarch specific advice is because when you use decent bascis, you can do everything yourself on that difficulty ^^.

Also, as a closing note, trust me, even though I've played mainly Immortal with a bit of deity experience in the past, I feel the same as you sometimes when I see the best players discuss Tech trading priorities
The number of times the Immortal AI is late getting alpha/willing to trade math for my aesthetics is uncountable, and I've often found it more useful to selftech more myself. On deity it all happens 500 years sooner because of their incredible bonuses.
The issue is that Deity is so unforgiving in other aspects that just 'getting used to the tempo' isn't quite enough. A very high percentage of your choices has to be spot on to win that level consistently.

So in short : have more fun = Do a few Rexercizes => Load up a few Emperor games to get more comfortable => play Immortal and have fun. Deity is for very analytical and/or dedicated players imo.


TLDNR: Do this Monarch game: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=362149 then move up EDIT : OMG the save isn't accessible anymore Here's a youtube playthrough for it though to get an idea : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzVuS8JWBIw

 

[Fippy]

Great info from Takesitez, yep you usually want to self tech maths cept maybe on Deity, and even there sometimes it does not work fast enuf to trade.
Hanging Gardens slow that down, AIs are less likely to trade while wonders can still be built unless many have the tech already.

While Aest. is very often great for trading on Deity, on Imm and lower i would probably only use that route if i want the wonders (or also great for failgold, with Ind Aest. gets really really good). Or Music Artist.

Also worth mentioning that with marble, Oracle gets really interesting.
Not so much for the hammer bonus while building it (also helps ofc ), but you already like having Poly for Aest + Literature wonders, and oracling Aest can get you started fast on Great Library i.e.
So here the most expensive early Reli tech will be worth teching.

 

[Lexicus]

I find I virtually always self-tech math on Emperor, and when I played Monarch (not that long ago) I definitely don't remember trading for it often if at all.

Usually my priority is to get to CS/Machinery ASAP, because Maces/xbows are supermen if you can get them before all nearby AIs have longbows.

 

[escream1]

This is such a great forum!
Thank you for all your thoughts!

Let me react on those:
- It seems pretty normal not to be able to trade for important technologies like Maths early enough on Monarch level! I have to say, it is pretty reassuring, I was wondering if I was doing someting fundamentally wrong!
- Others seem to agree that Maths is an important tech. I am an ex-"wonder-whore" who is learning the benefits of all-in wars. In that regard, getting to construction for siege just seems so fundamental! I was able to rush one civilization pre-siege in some prince games, but that hasn't happened yet in Monarch games (haven't really tried). So siege war seems the way to go!
- About levelling up even more, Monarch seems hard enough! Yes I can think about Alphabet and trades, but I still have to ask about it here... ;-) Maybe I'll try an Emperor game though.
- Oracle for a 1'000+ beakers tech still seems worth it if you have either marble bonus or ind. bonus. But it's a gamble I'm taking less and less often now.
- Going for Aesthetics early is great if you're planning to build the wonders. And you may have guessed that it was my go-to beeline before, to build all those nice wonders... ;-)But if the trade possiblities go down and you want to go to war early, it just seems more important to get CS, Machinery and Engineering, maybe even on the expense of the Music Great Artist... What do you guys think?
- I usually get 5-7 cities by 1AD, depending on my focus. On the mentioned Pangea game, I built 7 cities fast to make sure the AI wouldn't steal my spots. It seemed to pay out, but then I researched Aesthetics, Literature (going for Great Library in my capitol), but Construction and especially Machinery just came in too late, making my war with my weak neighbor a tedious affair with many losses that slowed down my development a lot! I messed up somewhere between 1AD and 750AD and I think avoiding the Aesthetics line all the way would have been helpful in this game.

 

[civfanchambers]

If you think you can pull it off going aesthetics - literature for an early GLibrary is powerful. Music is needed for military tradition, but not necessarily you be first to music just for the free artist. However the free artist is great if you need a golden age for a religion/civic change. Differently don't want to waste a great scientist for a golden age. An early rush is really only plausible if the victim civ is close by. 5-7 cities is ok, enough to allow you to race to military tradition for a cuirs break out war. With cuirs early enough no need for siege at all. I too use to be a wonder whore, but switched my play style to that of a warmonger, and found what most players say that the majority of wonders are unnecessary. If I clean up my game play and micro manage better I could be a powerhouse on emperor lvl. But I enjoy monarch lvl, or prince if using weird game settings.

 

[pigswill]

On monarch maybe get basic worker techs then military tech (construction or HbR (no-one's mentioned HA rush yet)) then currency>CoL>CS.

 

[odin1981]

I recently moved up to emperor a couple weeks ago. I distinctly remember that the ai's tech way too slow to get any value out off a straight to alphabet approach after worker skills. I would oracle metal casting often for most value and if you have 2 science cities (capitals yours plus the one you take) col can be researched manually.

I am a builder at heart and play with domination victories off so you actually get other win conditions. So please understand that is part off the basis for my oracle choice.

 

[DrCron]

On Monarch just get Alpha (without a hurry, you should get pottery before Writing) to get the very early techs and that's it. After that you shouldn't have issues to be the tech leader.

You probably won't need to self-tech IW, but definitely get Math on your own, it will also make currency cheaper (and try to keep the monopoly on currency for a while if you can, to delay the AI). Self-teching math will probably happen on Emperor too, and some times even on Immortal. It's not so bad, it might help you to be 1st to Music for that free Golden Age (or culture bomb if you go for cultural victory).

Eventually you'll b-line to liberalism so you'll probably use the trade again to fill earlier techs, but you should be able to get everything you miss with Philosophy (but only when you are just about to get lib). You should be first to Philo on pretty much every monarch game, and you shouldn't need to trade it too soon.

And that's it really. If the AI is too slow, just self-tech the important stuff you need (math is definitely important).

 

[Virupaksha]

On Monarch typical tech path is something like this.

You need agriculture, mining, wheel. BW for whipping, pottery for early cottages/granaries, AH situationally for food, possibly fishing.

Then writing, Alpha to trade other basic tachs (on Monarch you can normally still use writing for trade), then Maths, after which I would probably go currency. Trade Maths for IW.

Personally I don't normally go for Oracle. Unless you start with mysticism it requires researching three useless techs. If you can Oracle CS it's very worth it but normally you get MC or currency, 300 extra beakers for an extra settler + worker (7 cities by 1AD is not too bad but try for 10), a bit marginal though early currency is very good to have.

GLH I do go for on a watery map and Great Library on Monarch is normally achievable too.

 

[Gr8scott]

Of course you have to play the map, but if I were to start a Monarch game, I would assume the AIs are going to develop at a glacial pace. My general plan would be to go full on economy techs (early cottages, tech to currency ASAP etc) and just expand expand expand. You should have a massive size advantage at that point, then I would just decide when to go conquering. Elepult or Curr for example.

Main thing would be to go for a big expansion supported by economy tech. I don't play monarch but that would be my strat.