charon2112
King
After playing with the latest patch, have you changed your minds at all? Speak freely, I won't argue, I'm just interested in people's opinions...
Thanks guys.
Thanks guys.
To those who have, up until now, not been happy with Civ V...
- Thread starter charon2112
- Start date
I haven't played Civ5 for about 45 days, and I hadn't missed it at all. I've played more Civ4 than Civ5 since the release. I would assume I'm solidly within the target group for this thread.
I am impressed with the overall changelog of the patch. Before I read the log, I was planning to abandon Civ5 permanently for games like Civ4 or Victoria II. Now I believe I'll begin playing again.
This is probably the biggest gameplay patch I've ever seen in any of the Civ games, and pretty much all of the changes are a reaction to what the forums have been saying.
In some cases, they're properly balancing choices with our input.
In some cases, they're reacting to exploits with kind of clumsy fixes.
In some cases, they're backtracking on huge design decisions, calling into question the wisdom of ever making them in the first place. (Global happiness)
And in some cases, they're making the exact right changes that the game needs. (Lowering the absurdly prohibitive food cost for growth in large cities. Adjusting non-Colosseum happiness buildings.)
With that last set of changes, I don't know if they made a strong enough adjustment. I'm not sure they realize just how terrible most buildings were, as an investment. For a Forge to be worth it, you had to have a giant city (which was, itself, a losing investment because of the prohibitive growth cost) and have it produce about 8 units in a row, just to even break even on production/gold. It's clear that they want people to build bigger cities, so I assume that more balance changes will come if it's not properly fixed yet, but I'm still pretty worried about it.
Problems that remain:
The dichotomy between "large empire with good science" and "small empire with good culture" is still completely ridiculous.
DLC is being released in small, overpriced bundles.
AI will still require a massive troops advantage, to the point of covering every square on the map, to be able to fight an intelligent human. (1 UPT problems still remain.)
Game still runs slowly - not because of my computer, but because it seems to restrict itself to 1 GB of RAM. I'd love to see it use 4.
Still probably pretty hard for an extra citizen to "pull his weight" with low tile yields, building maintenance, etc.
I am impressed with the overall changelog of the patch. Before I read the log, I was planning to abandon Civ5 permanently for games like Civ4 or Victoria II. Now I believe I'll begin playing again.
This is probably the biggest gameplay patch I've ever seen in any of the Civ games, and pretty much all of the changes are a reaction to what the forums have been saying.
In some cases, they're properly balancing choices with our input.
In some cases, they're reacting to exploits with kind of clumsy fixes.
In some cases, they're backtracking on huge design decisions, calling into question the wisdom of ever making them in the first place. (Global happiness)
And in some cases, they're making the exact right changes that the game needs. (Lowering the absurdly prohibitive food cost for growth in large cities. Adjusting non-Colosseum happiness buildings.)
With that last set of changes, I don't know if they made a strong enough adjustment. I'm not sure they realize just how terrible most buildings were, as an investment. For a Forge to be worth it, you had to have a giant city (which was, itself, a losing investment because of the prohibitive growth cost) and have it produce about 8 units in a row, just to even break even on production/gold. It's clear that they want people to build bigger cities, so I assume that more balance changes will come if it's not properly fixed yet, but I'm still pretty worried about it.
Problems that remain:
The dichotomy between "large empire with good science" and "small empire with good culture" is still completely ridiculous.
DLC is being released in small, overpriced bundles.
AI will still require a massive troops advantage, to the point of covering every square on the map, to be able to fight an intelligent human. (1 UPT problems still remain.)
Game still runs slowly - not because of my computer, but because it seems to restrict itself to 1 GB of RAM. I'd love to see it use 4.
Still probably pretty hard for an extra citizen to "pull his weight" with low tile yields, building maintenance, etc.
Guardian_PL
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2006
- Messages
- 1,231
I won't even bother playing Civ5
Scientists from universities onwards? Are you kidding me? What about great scientists of old, like Aristotle or Euclid?
Other nations now are literally telling us "ooh you want to win the GAME, so we don't like you?", Uh, immersion anyone? It's like reading a historical book where one of characters is suddenly saying "nah, I won't die in this battle, there's still ten chapters to the end of volume one!"
On top of that we've got this infantile and astonishingly imbalanced wonders like Fountain of Youth or El Dorado. Way to go Firaxis, have fun CivRev crowd.
Scientists from universities onwards? Are you kidding me? What about great scientists of old, like Aristotle or Euclid?
Other nations now are literally telling us "ooh you want to win the GAME, so we don't like you?", Uh, immersion anyone? It's like reading a historical book where one of characters is suddenly saying "nah, I won't die in this battle, there's still ten chapters to the end of volume one!"
On top of that we've got this infantile and astonishingly imbalanced wonders like Fountain of Youth or El Dorado. Way to go Firaxis, have fun CivRev crowd.
I am still playing my first game after the patch.
First thing I noticed is I can't play the game without a mod. I'm not talking about big things, like balance. But many small things that after starting the game I couldn't believe weren't from vanilla. For example a tile telling you it's defense value on the tooltip when you put the mouse over it.
The Economy mod wasn't working rigth with the patch, so I tried to start a few vanilla games, but got annoyed fast by this few things. So I researched the mod files and managed to get it to work just deleting some UI xmls.
After that I started my game and ofc wanted to try diplomacy. I was dissapointed like I tell in another post, but not completly since it's the first game and you can't judge AI reactions by 1 game.
Didn't get to feel much else of the patch content. For me, diplomacy is what needs to work in this patch to make the game appealing again. The balance changes are nice, but that won't suddenly make the game fun.
So, not impressed with the patch, granted I haven't had much time to be impressed yet.
First thing I noticed is I can't play the game without a mod. I'm not talking about big things, like balance. But many small things that after starting the game I couldn't believe weren't from vanilla. For example a tile telling you it's defense value on the tooltip when you put the mouse over it.
The Economy mod wasn't working rigth with the patch, so I tried to start a few vanilla games, but got annoyed fast by this few things. So I researched the mod files and managed to get it to work just deleting some UI xmls.
After that I started my game and ofc wanted to try diplomacy. I was dissapointed like I tell in another post, but not completly since it's the first game and you can't judge AI reactions by 1 game.
Didn't get to feel much else of the patch content. For me, diplomacy is what needs to work in this patch to make the game appealing again. The balance changes are nice, but that won't suddenly make the game fun.
So, not impressed with the patch, granted I haven't had much time to be impressed yet.
I haven't downloaded the patch yet, as I am still curious about especially the changes in the field of social policies and diplomacy.
So, I am waiting for more input.
Combat (seen as an isolated feature) seems to have been changed for the better, based on the first reactions.
Nevertheless, I haven't yet found out in which way it really fits into the overall scope now.
The infamous two new Natural Wonders (ED and FoY) just make me :facepalm:
And I don't care that they may not appear each time. The pure fact of how they have been set up makes me wonder about what is going on at Firaxis, to say the least.
I really wonder if Firaxis is still providing games for serious players.
Total: I will wait for more experience reports before I decide about bothering with downloading.
So, I am waiting for more input.
Combat (seen as an isolated feature) seems to have been changed for the better, based on the first reactions.
Nevertheless, I haven't yet found out in which way it really fits into the overall scope now.
The infamous two new Natural Wonders (ED and FoY) just make me :facepalm:
And I don't care that they may not appear each time. The pure fact of how they have been set up makes me wonder about what is going on at Firaxis, to say the least.
I really wonder if Firaxis is still providing games for serious players.
Total: I will wait for more experience reports before I decide about bothering with downloading.
Just made my usual "1st try",i.e., played 25 turns, reloaded and tried another way, and again and
again, with France, the civ I was playing pre-patch.
Early to say, but yes looks better.
The manual was not changed; annoying.
I would say if you patched don't go on with your previous game, it works but very strange.
again, with France, the civ I was playing pre-patch.
Early to say, but yes looks better.
The manual was not changed; annoying.
I would say if you patched don't go on with your previous game, it works but very strange.
No, I have no more interest in wasting time downloading the patch. I don't bother with any games that use these overpriced DLC sales strategy.
This coupled with the dumbing down of the game makes civ no more then a cheap cash cow instead of a worthwhile game.
This coupled with the dumbing down of the game makes civ no more then a cheap cash cow instead of a worthwhile game.
CornPlanter
Emperor
I haven't played Civ for ages and haven't missed it either. I was about to try this new patch... until I learned about the fantasy cheesy Natural Wonders. Nope. I'm done with Civ5.
Also I'm not into wasting money on DLC's. Make a good, complete game, put a high price - I'm fine with that, I can pay it as long as the game is worth it. But cheating with incomplete, imbalanced, stupid game under the name of Civ is an injury, and selling DLCs on top of that is an insult. Maybe some people will continue to buy DLCs with hopes that "this one might finally fix it all" but I am not one of them.
I don't. Not anymore.
I never was unhappy with the game, so maybe I should not post in this thread. On the other hand, if people feel constrained to comment, even if they did not play jet or never will...
So, here some of my observations:
1. Fire is now very well concentrated on single targets. I was shocked (and as well very pleased), when I saw my longswordsman dying in the fire of several cities and bowmen and then finished off by some cavalry.
2. AI now retreats their bowmen nicely.
3. AI does now care about CSs. Siam is allyed with nearly every CS on the map and - when we ended our war and I wanted to bribe their allies - bougth *mine* instead!
4. New natural wonders: Incidentally, I've got the "Fountain of Youth" in my first and only post-patch game, even if this wonder is (or supposed to be) very rare. OK, this could be sheer luck.
It was near a "friendly" CS and was incorporated into its territory, only three turns before my settler reached its destination.
I was very sorry, as I had to claim their territory as mine...
So, this powerfull wonder really was a reason for war.
But it is indeed overpowered, I think. Especially the 50% healing-bonus is huge (fun, but too powerfull and in no way "realistic") and I really don`t know, where my empire would stand without this enormous happy bonus.
If my ownership of this wonder would lead to jealousy and DoW by all other civs, it would be... err... nice. Or at least adequate.
It can make games unique and might give a challenge, if it appears in an mayor AI civ's territory! Nevertheless, it would be fine, if there would be no healing bonus a bit lower happiness boost. And, to be honest, I don't like its fantasy-appeal.
NW in general: I like the idea, that they all give unique yields now for gold, happiness or science, if worked.
5. Honor-Tree:
Not sure about game impact. I found it still worth picking. Unfortunately, they did not change rollover to show the new stats (at least, not in german localization). Please update!
6. A bug appeared, but I don't know, whether it was there pre-patch, too (but simply not visable, because AI didn't care about CSs):
After I destroyed Alexander, because he annoyed me in bribing *my* CSs, he still was listed as "allied" with them and his influence seemed to last. Instantly, I bribed the CS and was its allied with them for some turns. But then - because of Alex's UA, I fell back and the CS was again allied with the long dead greece civilization...
7. naval battles:
Much better, now.
8. AI air units: I Don't know yet. I will see soon - if I survive the next turns. Siam just build "Manhatten Project" and I fear the worst...
So, here some of my observations:
1. Fire is now very well concentrated on single targets. I was shocked (and as well very pleased), when I saw my longswordsman dying in the fire of several cities and bowmen and then finished off by some cavalry.
2. AI now retreats their bowmen nicely.
3. AI does now care about CSs. Siam is allyed with nearly every CS on the map and - when we ended our war and I wanted to bribe their allies - bougth *mine* instead!
4. New natural wonders: Incidentally, I've got the "Fountain of Youth" in my first and only post-patch game, even if this wonder is (or supposed to be) very rare. OK, this could be sheer luck.
It was near a "friendly" CS and was incorporated into its territory, only three turns before my settler reached its destination.
I was very sorry, as I had to claim their territory as mine...
So, this powerfull wonder really was a reason for war.
But it is indeed overpowered, I think. Especially the 50% healing-bonus is huge (fun, but too powerfull and in no way "realistic") and I really don`t know, where my empire would stand without this enormous happy bonus.
If my ownership of this wonder would lead to jealousy and DoW by all other civs, it would be... err... nice. Or at least adequate.
It can make games unique and might give a challenge, if it appears in an mayor AI civ's territory! Nevertheless, it would be fine, if there would be no healing bonus a bit lower happiness boost. And, to be honest, I don't like its fantasy-appeal.
NW in general: I like the idea, that they all give unique yields now for gold, happiness or science, if worked.
5. Honor-Tree:
Not sure about game impact. I found it still worth picking. Unfortunately, they did not change rollover to show the new stats (at least, not in german localization). Please update!
6. A bug appeared, but I don't know, whether it was there pre-patch, too (but simply not visable, because AI didn't care about CSs):
After I destroyed Alexander, because he annoyed me in bribing *my* CSs, he still was listed as "allied" with them and his influence seemed to last. Instantly, I bribed the CS and was its allied with them for some turns. But then - because of Alex's UA, I fell back and the CS was again allied with the long dead greece civilization...
7. naval battles:
Much better, now.
8. AI air units: I Don't know yet. I will see soon - if I survive the next turns. Siam just build "Manhatten Project" and I fear the worst...
danieladler
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2005
- Messages
- 272
No, it still sucks ass. Diplomacy is still a joke and the AI is at least as stupid as before.
I haven't played for a month or so.
I had a go at it yesterday, and kinda got bored and stopped.
Then again today, I started another game, and got bored.
Sure, the patch changes are nice, but the game is still boring and lacks soul.
I probably wont play it again unless I play multiplayer, or there is a future patch note that reads something like this:
Removed the ******ed "AI tries to win" design.
It completely takes away game immersion, and makes the AI do the most ******ed things.
I had a go at it yesterday, and kinda got bored and stopped.
Then again today, I started another game, and got bored.
Sure, the patch changes are nice, but the game is still boring and lacks soul.
I probably wont play it again unless I play multiplayer, or there is a future patch note that reads something like this:
Removed the ******ed "AI tries to win" design.
It completely takes away game immersion, and makes the AI do the most ******ed things.
you're missing out on an awesome game ^_^
Rupe
Chieftain
It is a step in the right direction. Like the diplo additions but the AI still goes nutso and gets the world to declare war on you for no reason at times. Hope they make a few more fixes but its a bit better.
hardcore_gamer
King
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2009
- Messages
- 672
I wander how many of the people on this thread who claim the AI is just as bad as it was before have even played the game (and when I say play the game, I mean actually finish a few games instead of just playing it for 15 min) since the release of the patch. A lot of the claims the haters are making is just pure biased nonsense. The AI is easily much better now then it ever was before the patch. You can actually have friends now, and the AI won't roll over and die the moment you go to war with it.
I also can't help but feel that some of the people here are just whining for whining's sakes because if they actually fallowed their own advice and "stopped wasting their time on the game" then they would no longer have any reason to stay on the forum to keep track of the development of the game. And yet here they still are, apparently for no other reason then to lamement everything that has to do with the game.
Moderator Action: calling users that don't like the game or complain about specific parts of it whiners is unacceptable, telling them to leave this forum is just as unacceptable
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
I also can't help but feel that some of the people here are just whining for whining's sakes because if they actually fallowed their own advice and "stopped wasting their time on the game" then they would no longer have any reason to stay on the forum to keep track of the development of the game. And yet here they still are, apparently for no other reason then to lamement everything that has to do with the game.
Moderator Action: calling users that don't like the game or complain about specific parts of it whiners is unacceptable, telling them to leave this forum is just as unacceptable
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
HorribleHarald
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2010
- Messages
- 132
I have played last weeks Civ4, not even touched Civ 5 over one month. It's too war oriented, I like more empire building so Civ5 is just boring for me.
That argument comes up all the time and it makes no sense. I love the civ franchise. I have been playing since civ1.
But after less than a month of civ5 I was so bored I stopped. I still kept visiting the forum and "whining" as you say abotu things I don't like. In the hope that they change them. And, objective fullfilled or not, the first patch focus was diplomacy and AI.
Exactly the 2 things which were more "whined" about.
On a related note, even havin not played civ5 since they announced this patch, I bought the 2 new civs without a doubt.
Not likeing the game doesn't mean I will give up
LegioCorvus
Prince
I was seriously thinking about reinstalling Civ5 to play after the patch, until I heard several things:
1) The AI still does stupid stuff like sending a settler half-way across the map to settle next to you, then complains that you are too close to their lands.
2) The AI is still "in it to win the game." If anything, it seems tooltips explaining their motives has made this worse. I want immersion. If I want straight up competition, I'll play the horribly broken multiplayer.
3) ICS is still there, just more difficult to implement. Global happiness is in no way fixed, and at this point may be an permanent design flaw.
4) Cities are now impossible to siege in early era for some reason.
5) The Fountain of Youth. Really? I don't care how rare it is, that is incredibly out of place in a Civ game. At least Leonardo's Workshop was theoretically conceivable.
So, no... not this patch.
That said, this patch has returned some hope that I will enjoy playing this game in the future. Some of the improvements that have given me hope are the nerf to Maritime City States (though they're still not balanced), improving the tech tree (somewhat), giving us the tooltip for AI behaviors (despite not improving insanity), and the unit balance (all good there).
But, until I get the improvements that improve this game, I reserve the right to complain, much like a sports fan whose team is not doing well and whose head coach is making insane decisions.
1) The AI still does stupid stuff like sending a settler half-way across the map to settle next to you, then complains that you are too close to their lands.
2) The AI is still "in it to win the game." If anything, it seems tooltips explaining their motives has made this worse. I want immersion. If I want straight up competition, I'll play the horribly broken multiplayer.
3) ICS is still there, just more difficult to implement. Global happiness is in no way fixed, and at this point may be an permanent design flaw.
4) Cities are now impossible to siege in early era for some reason.
5) The Fountain of Youth. Really? I don't care how rare it is, that is incredibly out of place in a Civ game. At least Leonardo's Workshop was theoretically conceivable.
So, no... not this patch.
That said, this patch has returned some hope that I will enjoy playing this game in the future. Some of the improvements that have given me hope are the nerf to Maritime City States (though they're still not balanced), improving the tech tree (somewhat), giving us the tooltip for AI behaviors (despite not improving insanity), and the unit balance (all good there).
But, until I get the improvements that improve this game, I reserve the right to complain, much like a sports fan whose team is not doing well and whose head coach is making insane decisions.
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