Tower of Mastery Victory

I would suggest that each tower generates one of each kind of mana needed to build it. It would still mean an initial effort to -get- all the mana, but once you have a Tower then you don't need to worry about the AI pillaging your mana-nodes an so stopping to Tower of Mastery...

Of course, you'd still have to worry about them sacking the cities you built the lesser Towers in.
 
That seems reasonable, but I still think it should be possible (although not very practical) to build adepts with third level sphere promotions somehow. How does needing 7 of the same mana type sound? or maybe 12.

I would also prefer if units being upgraded to adepts or mages (i.e., Adventurers and savants) could get the free promotions too, perhaps with more mana requirements.
 
I would rather it just be cheaper, and/or to let you build it many times, like the Elohim/Sheaim rituals.
 
How about a chance of getting a third level promo for the appropriate spheres for free, if and only if the adept would already start with the first 2.

If the Adept was already starting with the first two promotions, that means you have 3(!) of the same type of mana.

If you're building the lesser towers for a ToM victory, you are going to want to avoid building redundant mana nodes.

I would rather it just be cheaper, and/or to let you build it many times, like the Elohim/Sheaim rituals.

This is another reasonable fix. However, one thing I dislike about the Rites of Oghma is that it benefits everyone equally rather than the builder solely. (Incidentally, I dislike the Vanilla Manhattan Project as well, both for being a poor mechanic and unrealistic.)

How about a repeatable Ritual which creates a building which provides a free mana?
 
How long was it before Roy Hall gave the Soviets the plans needed for "The Bomb"? The nuclear club grew pretty rapidly, and I don't think DeGaulle (sp?) put in the same level of foundation R&D in order to build theirs as did FDR's labs.

I also don't believe that it was a French bomb that made a certain Giant Monster, but that's another thread altogether.
:)
 
Yeah, I like the idea of Mana nodes under water.

I think the oceans are a lot less flavourful, with nothing but food resources (lol, oxymoron) than the land, and could use a bunch of new stuff, like sunken cities, diving workers, and such.

Sunken Cities could give tech bonuses or provide a resource. Advanced Civ Sunken Cities would be rare, as most Age of Magic things are lost, and things would be built on what is now ocean mostky during the Age of Ice (lower sea level) not during the age of magic. But you could keep searching for that Atlantis that Just might give you the Ether, or heck, maybe even wonders, like the Nexus.

Perhaps you could build mine like improvements, that have a chance to reveal something, but not just resources. Hey...ANCIENT TEMPLES IDEA!
 
Not bad ideas, but not really relevant to this thread. I personally would find it interesting if some nodes could be limited by terrain. Perhaps you couldn't get earth mana from the middle of the sea, and water mana nodes could only be built in or next to rivers or water terrain. Some mana types, wind for instance, could be obtained anywhere. Of course, this might make mana hardest to find where it is most needed.

If you are talking about diving workers, that should require significant technology. Sea mana nodes could be built by mages with water-walking.
 
A couple of thoughts on mana:
1. Mana nodes could be improved; additional time (or resources) would yield either extra mana or additional types. Perhaps a scaling system would apply, or say that Fire nodes can also generate Sun or Chaos, but only after you upgrade it to two fire mana. Sun nodes could make Fire and Law; Law nodes could make Sun and Life, and so on.

2. I feel nodes should be more expensive. My first thought would be to make them require a unit to be sacrificed to build and to upgrade.

3. Add an additional resource; call them 'potential nodes' for now. Scatter them much more liberally then "blank" mana is now. These spots can be "worked" into nodes by adepts, but doing so removes some or all of the potential nodes in nearby plots. This would allow for far more mana if you choose to farm for it, but at the expense of a large part of your civilization’s acreage that could be populated with cities and improvements.

4. Make placement matter, Nature nodes can only come from forests, Fire from deserts, Water from irrigated plots. This will have a significant affect on Arc & Litch heavy strategies and makes mana type from each palace more important. Then mages from the frozen north can't throw fireballs; mages from the desert can't call forth springs. Trading mana would become more useful and important as well.

5. Make nodes harder to pillage, some barbarian with a wooden spear shouldn't be able to destroy five years worth of mages weaving enchants to make a node. Requiring an adept or mage to cast a spell makes more sense to me, and several might be appropriate, scorch would trash a Water node, loyalty would destroy Chaos, that sort of thing. Alternately adding an action button, (similar to the build icons for nodes and worker improvements) that allows arcane units to pillage enemy nodes would do.

A couple of thoughts on the towers:
1. I can't recall if the towers are national wonders, if not it seems they should be. Doing so would require a minimum of three cities to complete the ToM victory, and having to hold all three cities could be hard enough, rather than trying to defend every node.

2. Allow the towers to be built with at least two of the required mana types with more making it easier, or even increasing the tower’s specific bonus similar to the way affinity builds up.

3.a. Allow for a production rushing mechanism other than GE's on the ToM itself. I feel that a way to rush rituals would be handy too, similar to sending prophets to another city to boost a foundling culture, or Warriors of Kilmorph to build anything quickly in a tiny town (much cheaper than rushing with gold sometimes). If you keep a fresh stream of mages ready to sacrifice them selves to the cause, things get done quicker. So then you make building the ToM act like “building” a ritual.

3.b. Alternately make building the towers more like building the spaceship. Make one tower (SS Part) for each mana type and completing the ToM (like launching a space craft) can be done with, lets say half of the towers, but it might fail destroying towers. All of the towers guarantees victory, but it is announced that you've begun and a victory count down timer starts while you wait to see if you succeed. Presumably in this time everyone is likely warring with you before you can declare victory.

Any of that seem workable?
 
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