Trade

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Steve from Dk

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I just can't remember anything
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Well. Which is most important when making trade routes. Distance or size of cities? And does some goods give more money than others?

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I can only afirm that distance plays a major role and that rare ressources (f.i. : uranium) bring mor gold....

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Check out the Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom for info on trade routes. They are mostly accurate, except that the bonuses that are shown for the trade bonus also count for the cash payment.

Quick summary:

City size has nothing directly to do with trade routes. It is the amount of trade arrows the city produces that matters.

Certain cargos do have bonuses with them.
 
I usually go for distance and what a city damands for rather than rare goods and size. Though, I would think something like uranium would bring in more gold and beakers than say hides.
 
Steve - since your other post was about running out of money, I'd say you should read the Scrolls of Ancient Wisdom that the Duke recommends before your next game - it really helped me a lot by showing what's important in delivering caravans, and that makes all the difference in trying to stay solvent.
 
Somebody, I forget who, posted in here that he ALWAYS moves caravans to his capital only... This is good if it is your SSC, but does each caravan affect it positively? Looking at say 50 caravans to your capital?
 
The idea of moving all your caravans through one city has a very limited effect. A city will only support 3 trade routs. If one city sends 50 caravans, each caravan will produce the one-time payment of gold, but only three will establish a permanent trade route that renders trade arrows in the city screen. However, if after the three routes are established a more prosperous one is made, the worst of the three will be dropped in favour of the new, more valuable one, so there is a possible advantage for sending more than three caravans from the same city.
 
Aaaaah... So you can't increase your trade in your capital/SSC without limit? Thanks!
 
Re: traderoutes--don't you get extra coins for slipping a caravan into a city whose civ you are at war with? I am not sure about this, does anyone have more info? <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/tongue.gif" border=0>

[This message has been edited by Ace (edited August 29, 2001).]
 
"The idea of moving all your caravans through one city has a very limited effect. A city will only support 3 trade routs. If one city sends 50 caravans, each caravan will produce the one-time payment of gold, but only three will establish a permanent trade route that renders trade arrows in the city screen. However, if after the three routes are established a more prosperous one is made, the worst of the three will be dropped in favour of the new, more valuable one, so there is a possible advantage for sending more than three caravans from the same city."

Actually, I took the "send caravans to capital" strategy to mean that these caravans originate in the other cities, and you send them from these different cities TO your capital, not the other way around. That way, those satellite cities ALL get a big bonus from your capital (or SSC, whatever's your biggest trade-arrow city), but your capital only picks the top three among them for itself....

In my last full game, from each of my cities I sent one caravan to my SSC (different from my capital, but it was the trade giant), one to a large foreign city, and one directly related to demand (but on another continent if possible).... And that worked out pretty well. Sending them to faraway small cities in your empire isn't all that bad, IF you expect that city to grow very big in time as far as number of trade arrows (the value of the route will thus increase as more trade squares get used by that city). And watch when new commodities pop up in a city, like uranium or dye--you can replace a lame route with those late in the game, and get a big payout to boot....

As for the SSC always picking the BEST three, I have to beg to differ. On many occasions I sent caravans to my SSC, and saw them replace a 16-arrow route with a 13- or 14-arrow one, and overall trade went down--but not too badly. The next one could make it go back up again, too.... Anyone ever observed this phenomena? It DOES happen--I'm trying to figure out how to predict whether it will or not. Anyone?

 
Originally posted by allan:
As for the SSC always picking the BEST three, I have to beg to differ. On many occasions I sent caravans to my SSC, and saw them replace a 16-arrow route with a 13- or 14-arrow one, and overall trade went down--but not too badly. The next one could make it go back up again, too.... Anyone ever observed this phenomena? It DOES happen--I'm trying to figure out how to predict whether it will or not. Anyone?

The only time I have seen it happen is when I have either:

A. Inflated the trade of the other city to get a larger bonus, that made the route better than ones there, then moved the workers back to their normal spots, which then made it smaller than what was there.

B. Had my city working on non 'default' squares, then the city gained a population and the cities workers were redistributed to 'default' squares, which lowered the trade.

I haven't seen it otherwise. I don't think the supply/demand changing affects the number of trade arrows that a pre-existing route provides.
 
The further away the place is the more is worth. If its another nationalities city its worth more and if its on another continent then its a even bigger bonus I believe.
 
Duke: It doesn't ALWAYS happen, but in my last game, early part of late game (post-flight), I sent caravans just about every turn to my SSC (Nara), and looked right before I put it in, then right after. Trade would go from 114 to 111 in Nara, with size-16 routes being replaced by the new one, which was size-13, on the SAME turn, without me altering any worked squares in the other city (I rarely micromanage EVERY city like that). It would happen particularly when I sent more than one to the SSC in one turn, then it seemed to have like a 33% chance (one in three) of happening. Which leads me to believe there's some other criteria besides trade route size.... Again, it wasn't a BIG issue, since the next one I sent could bump it back up again (replacing the previous route). But it was a bit irritating....

[This message has been edited by allan (edited August 29, 2001).]
 
As everyone already knows there are two benefits coming from trade routes.

1. Increase in trade icons - modifiers to the increase in trade inons is spelled out in the scrolls to ancient wisdom.

trade incons = (source trade + destination trade + 4) / 8


2. Bonus in cash and science incons
This does get more involved and has numerous adjustments. The basic formula according to the strategy guide is:

Base Initial Bonus = ((distance + 10) + (source trade + destinattion trade)) / 24

- Diagonal squares = 1.5
- trade does not include icons from other already established trade routes.

Adjustments to Base Initial Bonus

Fullfilling demand (Demand Bonus) for the following cargos:
uranium x 2
oil x 1.5
silk, spice,gems, gold no adjustment
silver, cloth, wine /2
all others - no bonus

Based on above you end up with what thay call the *modified trade route bonus* which is effected by whether the destination city is yours or and AI city.

MOdified Trade Route Bonus:
Your city - (base initial bonus x 2) + demand bonus

AI city - (base initial bonus + demand bonus) x 2

Final Trade Route Bonus:
within first 200 turns (or until navigation and invention) - modified trade bonus x 2.
after railroad - x .67
after flight - x .33




 
I am a big fan of trade. It is certainly best to send the trade convoys as far as possible so you get the best return. Then there are the income and science advantages. Ideally, I try to have all my cities build three caravans each. Plus you can bet your collective lives I build a big navy to escort the convoys :-)

Considering how important trade is in the real world after the Age of Discovery, I am surprised the AI Civs don't do more of it. This is especially so when people start getting Industrialisation/Automobile. Without trade, I think these two advances are an oxymoron.
 
Rule of thumb: highest bonus is from overseas foriegn democracy which demands your cargo, and is as far away as possible.

In practice, I look at the best cities and what they demand, then create and deliver what they need. In the early game, it is usually best just to have all your cities trade with your Colossus city, whose function is to generate max trade arrows. After Democracy, Automobile, and Flight... trade distance is the primary concern for me. Use airports and trade across the whole map!
 
Ok, I didn't read every post on the SSC thing, but I will go ahead and fire this off anyway. I have done the "send them all to your capital" routine a few times and I will say that it does work very well as you are going TO the capital and all the cities in your Civ gain from the high trade in the capital. I also have noticed though that if it only counts the "top three" IN the capital then it seems to always shuffle them in a strange manner and lesser routes wind up on top.
 
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