Trading...Do's and Dont's
- Thread starter jbmagic
- Start date
G
Gainy
Guest
DONT: Brake deals
DO: Get the most you can out of a trade
Thats all i can say
DO: Get the most you can out of a trade
Thats all i can say
#1 Person
The Cow
Do's: trade luxs, the computers will pay you like... a whole lot.
trade all non milatary techs
get a world map for people you just met
Don'ts: trade Millatary techs, esspiastaly, civlary, mobile warfare, millatary tradition
muctale protections if you don't want to get in wars
Give them your world map
say "no" if someone is damanding something small
trade all non milatary techs
get a world map for people you just met
Don'ts: trade Millatary techs, esspiastaly, civlary, mobile warfare, millatary tradition
muctale protections if you don't want to get in wars
Give them your world map
say "no" if someone is damanding something small
ivory
What 's the big picture?
Very general, with lots of exceptions depending on situations:
DO: buy workers if available. They are greatly undervalued in trade and you suck population from the other civ.
DO: see if you can increase an offer that is put to you. You can add sometimes 10% to the value.
DO: start gpt deals with civs that are stronger than you. This will decrease the likelihood of them going to war with you.
DO: try to uplift their attitude with a small gift if you need to buy something big like a tech or lux. Their better mood will decrease the price.
DO: if you 've sold your map or anything, sell it to all the others immediately too. If you don't, they probably will.
DONT: start gpt deals with civs you plan to attack in the near future.
DONT: sell workers.
DO: buy workers if available. They are greatly undervalued in trade and you suck population from the other civ.
DO: see if you can increase an offer that is put to you. You can add sometimes 10% to the value.
DO: start gpt deals with civs that are stronger than you. This will decrease the likelihood of them going to war with you.
DO: try to uplift their attitude with a small gift if you need to buy something big like a tech or lux. Their better mood will decrease the price.
DO: if you 've sold your map or anything, sell it to all the others immediately too. If you don't, they probably will.
DONT: start gpt deals with civs you plan to attack in the near future.
DONT: sell workers.
MadScot
Brandy's back!
If you can be bothered - it's very time consuming, and is almost an exploit:
Once the world knows your map, the Ai will often continue to buy it from you almost every turn - that new road is worth something it seems.
Even if the AI claims no deal, try 1 gold for your map, often they'll take it.
Sometimes they'll pay 1g for the Territory map first, then for the world too.
Doesn't sound much, but 1g/turn/civ for 10 civs is 10gpt. Its a nice extra, but tedious getting it every turn.
Once the world knows your map, the Ai will often continue to buy it from you almost every turn - that new road is worth something it seems.
Even if the AI claims no deal, try 1 gold for your map, often they'll take it.
Sometimes they'll pay 1g for the Territory map first, then for the world too.
Doesn't sound much, but 1g/turn/civ for 10 civs is 10gpt. Its a nice extra, but tedious getting it every turn.
Xerol
Emperor
Concerning the worker trade...
In vanilla 1.21f the granary exploit allowed a size 6/7 city with 10+ production to pump out a worker every turn with no population loss. This was fixed in 1.29f but if you've got a size 12 city with lots of flood plains around and about 10 production you can turn it into a nice worker factory...with a few irrigated wheats on flood plains you might even be able to make an 'infinite' factory with pop 4/5 or something like that. Anyway, once you accumulate a lot of workers(hopefully you don't need them, but you can use them if you do need them) move 'em all to the capital. This works better after r/rs because you can 1) move workers to capital in 0 turns and 2) railroads on irrigated tiles increases food production meaning less pop needed to support a 10 extra food/turn worker factory. (Note: try to get the extra food exactly 10 per turn otherwise you'll end up going over pop 6 and losing the full granary)...anyway, once you get about 40-50 workers in your capital(i wouldnt do THIS many if you had a full military with little economic support, this makes monarchy the ideal gov't for it though b/c of higher unit support)...now where was i? oh yeah, worker trade. get 'em all to the capital, open trade with a civ that you're gracious or at least one level below that(ive been going too long without sleep to remember anyway...) and put all of those workers up for trade...see what they offer, it might be a good amount of techs or at least gold(they usually won't do gpt or a large sum of gold) but 'shave off' the workers from the trade one-by-one and see if the trade advisor still says 'this deal will probably be okay' (or whatever he actually says..once again, can't remember) but be prepared to give a little of that gold back as tribute, trading workers usually brings the relationship down at least 2-3 steps. Now, sit back as the other civ crumbles. Chances are if they've got railroads they will move the workers out to border cities and then join those cities...or disband a lot of them, but for at least one turn it brings down their gold a bit especially if they're running a rep gov't, and another thing for warmongers: if their capital's close to the border, you might be able to run in there and capture them back soon, perhaps the same turn if you're in their territory or willing to violate rop, and correct me if i'm wrong but if you get the workers back the same turn they don't flip nationality either. but even if you don't run in and take them back, you'll probably be able to get a few techs or some gold out of it, while taking the chance of damaging their economy at the same time(if you take all their gold, they might have to disband some military units at the same time)
In vanilla 1.21f the granary exploit allowed a size 6/7 city with 10+ production to pump out a worker every turn with no population loss. This was fixed in 1.29f but if you've got a size 12 city with lots of flood plains around and about 10 production you can turn it into a nice worker factory...with a few irrigated wheats on flood plains you might even be able to make an 'infinite' factory with pop 4/5 or something like that. Anyway, once you accumulate a lot of workers(hopefully you don't need them, but you can use them if you do need them) move 'em all to the capital. This works better after r/rs because you can 1) move workers to capital in 0 turns and 2) railroads on irrigated tiles increases food production meaning less pop needed to support a 10 extra food/turn worker factory. (Note: try to get the extra food exactly 10 per turn otherwise you'll end up going over pop 6 and losing the full granary)...anyway, once you get about 40-50 workers in your capital(i wouldnt do THIS many if you had a full military with little economic support, this makes monarchy the ideal gov't for it though b/c of higher unit support)...now where was i? oh yeah, worker trade. get 'em all to the capital, open trade with a civ that you're gracious or at least one level below that(ive been going too long without sleep to remember anyway...) and put all of those workers up for trade...see what they offer, it might be a good amount of techs or at least gold(they usually won't do gpt or a large sum of gold) but 'shave off' the workers from the trade one-by-one and see if the trade advisor still says 'this deal will probably be okay' (or whatever he actually says..once again, can't remember) but be prepared to give a little of that gold back as tribute, trading workers usually brings the relationship down at least 2-3 steps. Now, sit back as the other civ crumbles. Chances are if they've got railroads they will move the workers out to border cities and then join those cities...or disband a lot of them, but for at least one turn it brings down their gold a bit especially if they're running a rep gov't, and another thing for warmongers: if their capital's close to the border, you might be able to run in there and capture them back soon, perhaps the same turn if you're in their territory or willing to violate rop, and correct me if i'm wrong but if you get the workers back the same turn they don't flip nationality either. but even if you don't run in and take them back, you'll probably be able to get a few techs or some gold out of it, while taking the chance of damaging their economy at the same time(if you take all their gold, they might have to disband some military units at the same time)
ivory
What 's the big picture?
I regret to say I had difficulty following your disquisition, Qwerty. Perhaps the remarks on the side were just a bit too numerous, and the arrangement of paragraphs left something to wish for. 
I understand you want to sell your workers. As has been common knowledge since Civ first came out, the AI greatly undervalues workers in trade (if I want to buy a woker in a city, it 's 80 gold on the first turn, or 36 if there is one shield produced already, but the AI only asks 30 gold or so*) but this works both ways: they will sell them at rockbottom prices, but they will never pay much for them either.
What do you mean by "trading workers usually brings the relationship down at least 2-3 steps"? From annoyed to polite to gracious?
From what I 've been told, disbanding foreign workers is considered almost an act of war, certainly an act of murder. I 've never seen the AI disbanding a worker.
I don't know how they know, but if I disband a Persian worker and then meet with Xerxes, he often is less friendly than he was before, even in same turn.
*This has been changed in PTW, but it still is not level.
I understand you want to sell your workers. As has been common knowledge since Civ first came out, the AI greatly undervalues workers in trade (if I want to buy a woker in a city, it 's 80 gold on the first turn, or 36 if there is one shield produced already, but the AI only asks 30 gold or so*) but this works both ways: they will sell them at rockbottom prices, but they will never pay much for them either.
What do you mean by "trading workers usually brings the relationship down at least 2-3 steps"? From annoyed to polite to gracious?
From what I 've been told, disbanding foreign workers is considered almost an act of war, certainly an act of murder. I 've never seen the AI disbanding a worker.
I don't know how they know, but if I disband a Persian worker and then meet with Xerxes, he often is less friendly than he was before, even in same turn.
*This has been changed in PTW, but it still is not level.
Darkness
Shadow creature
Don't: Trading gpt for a tech to a civ that's about to be eliminated. When that civ dies (inside the 20-turn deal limit), you'll get a rep hit because you've stopped paying the gpt....
Bamspeedy
CheeseBob
About selling your own workers:
In PTW, the AI charges you ~120 gold to buy one of their workers. They will only pay you ~20 gold for your workers.
Remember, these are slaves, so the AI wouldn't pay upkeep for them, so it won't crash his economy.
Yes, for some unknown reason, AI attitude drops a little for each worker (of your nationality) that you sell them. To get from polite to furious, this would take at least 11 or 12 workers. They do NOT get mad at you when you buy their workers, only when you sell your own. Perhaps this isn't a bug, but was meant to help discourage people from making worker factories just to sell the workers.
And yes, if you disband a slave (or starve a foreigner), the AI gets mad.
The AI will sometimes disband workers if there really isn't a chance for that worker to get away from an enemy. Otherwise, they usually join workers into cities if the workers have nothing to do.
In PTW, the AI charges you ~120 gold to buy one of their workers. They will only pay you ~20 gold for your workers.
Remember, these are slaves, so the AI wouldn't pay upkeep for them, so it won't crash his economy.
Yes, for some unknown reason, AI attitude drops a little for each worker (of your nationality) that you sell them. To get from polite to furious, this would take at least 11 or 12 workers. They do NOT get mad at you when you buy their workers, only when you sell your own. Perhaps this isn't a bug, but was meant to help discourage people from making worker factories just to sell the workers.
And yes, if you disband a slave (or starve a foreigner), the AI gets mad.
The AI will sometimes disband workers if there really isn't a chance for that worker to get away from an enemy. Otherwise, they usually join workers into cities if the workers have nothing to do.
Actually I'd sell Literature (you meant Lit. rather than Writing, right?) just before completing the Great Library, when I'm sure I will get it anyway. Same with Music Theory/Bach, Free Artistry/Shakespeare Theatre etc. These are all dead-end techs which are almost worthless in trade when their corresponding wonders had been built. Exception is Literature which still has some value because of libraries it allows.
This can be tricky but well worth it. Don't do it if there is a wonder cascade going and you can lose your wonder though.
Sometimes it is even worth to consider selling non dead-end tech in similar situation but everything depends on exact conditions. For example, Electronics can be sold for loads of money if no other civ has the possibility of building Hoover (no rivers in their territory or only near totally corrupt cities).
Michael York
On Sabatical from Civ
It depends on you're level of difficulty. On Deity, you trade EVERYTHING you can. You research techs that the AI doesn't normally go after so that you have something of value to trade.
TRADE NATIONALISM!!!! If you are playing as a scientific civ, and this is the tech you get, The AI completely overvalues this tech. They'll also pay for Military Tradition. Once you catch up in techs, sell techs for gpt to the richest civs first.
Always sell to the richest civs first.
Trade isn't very necessary on Cheiftan, but it can still be used as a powerfull tool.
Don't allow you supplylines/trade routes to get cut. You'll take a rep hit for any trade agreements that you are not fullfilling for ANY reason.
TRADE NATIONALISM!!!! If you are playing as a scientific civ, and this is the tech you get, The AI completely overvalues this tech. They'll also pay for Military Tradition. Once you catch up in techs, sell techs for gpt to the richest civs first.
Always sell to the richest civs first.
Trade isn't very necessary on Cheiftan, but it can still be used as a powerfull tool.
Don't allow you supplylines/trade routes to get cut. You'll take a rep hit for any trade agreements that you are not fullfilling for ANY reason.
The Last Conformist
Irresistibly Attractive
One of the niftier tricks I've seen the AI do is to, at the beginning of a war, rush a single mobile unit into ones territory, capture a stack of Workers, and immediately kill them all. It can hurt real bad sometimes.
Strider
In Retrospect
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 8,984
Originally posted by Gen
Well, I see your strategy is being couple techs ahead of enemy then
But of course trading writing gets them closer to Great Library, that's for sure.
I've become pretty good at keeping up in tech... even in the higher levels.... (I actually had a Diety game where I took the lead and kept it by about the middle of the middle age's.)
Though.... My "speciality" there makes up for my little attention span, bad micromanagment, and lack of military skills. Also I NEVER keep an army around.... I always like to build one up when a war starts....
allhailIndia
Deity
Sell resources to far off civs which are'nt an immediate threat to you.
Bargain like mad. Squeeze as much as possible from the other in EVERY deal esp gpt. Spread your trade around and don't be TOO dependent on 1 civ for ALL your trade.
DO NOT enter into a deal with a civ destined for destruction.
TRY and squeeze a couple of small cities when negotiating peace treaties.
Bargain like mad. Squeeze as much as possible from the other in EVERY deal esp gpt. Spread your trade around and don't be TOO dependent on 1 civ for ALL your trade.
DO NOT enter into a deal with a civ destined for destruction.
TRY and squeeze a couple of small cities when negotiating peace treaties.
Xerol
Emperor
resource monopolies are your friend. if another civ has the only other group of sources of a resource/lux try to culture flip that city, or if its in the middle, take it out...i had about 14 spices in my most recent monarch game, but the iroquois were selling theirs to the other 4 civs before i could get mine sold...they only had 5 sources so i flipped their 3 edge cities and now i've got a monopoly on spices, and i'm selling them to keep up in tech and make myself really rich(i'm keeping sci slider @ 10% and i'm still equal as of mid-middle ages)
Daedalus420
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2003
- Messages
- 29
Why do you have science at 10% that is the worst thing you can do. You are making money of your monopoly right? So bump that up as high as it goes, right from the get go I put science to 100% until I'm low on money and then slide it down. 10%??????
Similar threads
