TSG 124 After Action Report

[Vesslan]

text

Cool stuff! How does one manage to t500 without wining culture?

 

[Knowtalent]

That isnt that hard as long as you dont bother with building hotels and airports, and avoiding theme bonuses. If you can keep a decently cultured AI alive its not a problem.

You have watch that they dont start building space parts. Though without aluminum and any large pop cities that also is managable

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[RincewindOtti]

Your name: RincewindOtti
Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 1150AD
Turns played: 175
Base score: 724
Final score: 2068
Time played: 5:28:00

First submission, I played "silently" without submitting for quite a while though and enjoy GOTM a lot, thanks for all the work.
This time it went really well, so I decided to give it a go (and also - hopefully I am not mistaken here - I managed to fight against my reloading habit).

- Did you use your UU?
Yeah, Keshiks are amazing especially on that difficulty level. They were able to go all the way.

- How useful was your UA?
Well the extra movement was nice, but that's about it.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
Nope, I was tech leader and managed to catch one enemy spy.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Obviously going dominiation, large map and continents are not really helpfull. On the other hand Astronomy was timed ok with finishing my initial continent so it might not have mattered that much.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Allowed a slow GL - not sure though if that is actually slowing things down.
The idea is to get to Chivalry faster with early NC on the other hand I probably started producing Charriot Archers a lot later due to that.
Settled in place and went Scout, Scout, Granary (bought Shrine), GL into Philo, NC and then Charriot Archers and Keshiks.
Used free settler from Liberty for one coastal expo 2 North of the horses in the West.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
Not really, got a religion but without buildings...impact was minor at best.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order?
Full Liberty, Great Admiral for pre-Astronomy scouting. I wasn't sure about that, but it turned out to be quite usefull as after finishing my continent and astro I knew at once where to go.
The Great Admiral ran into Poland and the Huns and finally Theodora with a scout joining on exploring the continent from the West.
Then one into Exploration and finally one into Honor as the barb camps on the empty home continent started to become annoying.

- What was your VC
Domination.
Started a bit late due to Philo first.
Charriot Archers for Alex and Russia, then a few turns delay to upgrade into Keshiks, then Sweden, Arabia....then everybody running back to Kysil and spending 2-3 turns in shallow water to set sail to Poland, then the Huns and finally Theodora.
I spent some luxes to get Attila and Kasimir declare war on Theo a few turns before I reached Warsaw, but I doubt that anyone did anything here.
After finishing Attila and getting Breslau in a peace deal, I gifted 3 cities to Theo. We had open borders, so I could fast forward to Constantinopel. There the Great Wall was just a very slight nuisance.
I managed to get two frigates, one bought in my coastal expo and the other one in Warswaw. One managed to get one (unneeded) shot at Constantinopel - I feared that city could be more difficult but Keshik's proved different.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
Writing, Calendar, Philo (GL), AH, Mining, Wheel, Chivalry, Education, Astronomy

Spoiler :

 

[Sclb]

That isnt that hard as long as you dont bother with building hotels and airports, and avoiding theme bonuses. If you can keep a decently cultured AI alive its not a problem.

You have watch that they dont start building space parts. Though without aluminum and any large pop cities that also is managable

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First I gave her one of the other underdeveloped capitals I conquered that contained no wonders in a peace deal. Took her capital city after 10 turns, and DoW her every 30 turns to access her luxuries and to train for more khan to citadel bomb her land. Kings level AI are so pathetic that she didn't annex the city until something like turn 400 gimping her science. Even if she manages Apollo project at that rate, there isn't enough time to build all the parts and get through the tech tree. Even if she manages to start building parts, it's easy to take her aluminum sources. As long as AI with 1 city has built both hydra plants and SS factory, they won't have any spare aluminum to build parts since they don't know how to destroy buildings to free up resources.

Avoiding culture is easy with no airports/hotels in cities that had landmark/wonders/great works. Additionally I could've put great works in cities that can be razed and destroy them that way.

 

[Sempronius]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 124
Date submitted: 2015-12-22 04:01:36
Reference number: 33657
Your name: Sempronius
Game status: Domination Victory
Game date: 1660AD
Turns played: 242
Base score: 1324
Final score: 2758
Time played: 11:19:00
Submitted save: Genghis Khan_0242 AD-1660-win.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Sempronius_C512401.Civ5Save


- Did you use your UU? Yes, almost exclusively.
- How useful was your UA? No, didn't attack any CS.
- Did you use spying to your advantage? No
- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how? The map was the biggest factor in not having a sub T200 win. The path I chose to follow did not come across Byzantium, Attila, or Poland until later in the game and then I had to wait while my Keshiks swam over.
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions? It was really just a race to see how fast I could win the map rather than worry about diplomacy or other factors.
- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How? Not really, I created a religion and named it 'to bow down' just so that I could see messages like "Almatay wants to bow down", but otherwise I ignored religion.
- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order? Tradition to Monarchy, Honor right side, opened Commerce for a gold boost, honor left side, opened Exploration.
- What was your VC - Domination
- What techs did you prioritize ? Animal Husbandry to settle near horses, calendar for lux, horsemen, then straight to keshiks


I don't play domination often, but this was fun, and the logistics/ranged keshiks were unstoppable.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Started with 3 city NC and tradition.

Took Athens around turn 80
Moscow around around turn 110.

Researched Chivalry turn 115 with cash to upgrade 7 chariots to keshiks.
Researched Astronomy turn 127.

Didnt know i would be unable to build horses after chivalry. Got severly demotivated by that error and sorta gave up. From turn 115 on, no more planning, just clicking trough. When i got to the boring part of crossing the ocean i just put everything else on sleep and my cities on wealth.
Suicided my keshiks without planning nor melee backup into the polish great wal defences on turn 140. (I had at that moment 7 of them on polish lands, 4 sleeping in the middle of the ocean and a dozen randomly build units just fortified around the cities that produced them)

With proper care and planning trough the end, domination should have been certainly possible between 150 and 160. I expect vadalaz to bring us a turn 130-140 domination victory.

 

[zxcvbob]

Started with 3 city NC and tradition.

Took Athens around turn 80
Moscow around around turn 110.

Researched Chivalry turn 115 with cash to upgrade 7 chariots to keshiks.
Researched Astronomy turn 127.

Didnt know i would be unable to build horses after chivalry. Got severly demotivated by that error and sorta gave up. From turn 115 on, no more planning, just clicking trough. When i got to the boring part of crossing the ocean i just put everything else on sleep and my cities on wealth.
Suicided my keshiks without planning nor melee backup into the polish great wal defences on turn 140. (I had at that moment 7 of them on polish lands, 4 sleeping in the middle of the ocean and a dozen randomly build units just fortified around the cities that produced them)

With proper care and planning trough the end, domination should have been certainly possible between 150 and 160. I expect vadalaz to bring us a turn 130-140 domination victory.

The militaristic CS just to the SE gives you horse units. I think they gave me a knight and 2 or 3 Mandekalu Cavalry. (I only built one horseman before chivalry, so the gifted ones were greatly appreciated)

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Ye, i could have used spears too. but i wanted to stuff to go fast. Beating vadalaz is the goal. That is not going to happen with such grave errors and improvisation to fix it, which is why i gave up.
I actually made another grave error i didnt know: I stole workers from 2 CS. Didnt know that would give me -2 influence per turn. I dont think that mattered an awefull lot though, i wouldnt have gotten long alliances anyways, there werent many quests that i could complete. In all the game, i think i got to kill 4 or so barb camps, won 2 science races and connected 2 luxes for them.

 

[Sclb]

Beating vadalaz is the goal. That is not going to happen with such grave errors and improvisation to fix it, which is why i gave up.

He got T183 culture with SS already. I think this map is large enough that sub 170 domination is already good. I messed up my attempt by going the wrong direction so it took much longer and had to wait for astronomy.

 

[Mesix]

Your name: Mesix
Game status: Science Victory
Game date: 1590AD
Turns played: 228
Base score: 2634
Final score: 5853
Time played: 6:41:00

Science Victory with a wide (16 cities) empire. Conquered my starting continent by turn 144. Met first civ on the other continent on turn 148. Expanded from 8 to 16 cities to fill out my empire and also generate a lot of faith from Desert Folklore (bridging first 4 core cities with Mecca added 4 more cities in the desert). I was surprised how fast the late game techs were rolling in. I didn't even get a Research Lab (or indeed many buildings) in all of my cities in time. I only used a few GS and still finished Future Tech thus overshooting my research. I built 3 SS parts and rushed the other 3 SS parts with gold. I completed World Fair and International Games (nothing else to do so I thought...why not?).

Spoiler :

- Did you use your UU?
Hell yeah! Best UU in the game.

- How useful was your UA?
I don't war with CS, they are much more useful as allies. The +1 movement for mounted units is nice.

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
I placed my first spy in my capital for defense. The next two became diplomats. The rest were sent to CS.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
Yes. My starting continent was very big and once conquered allowed me a lot of room to expand. Being separated from the other continent allowed me to have a peaceful end game for my Science VC.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
I was able to build a lot of wonders which would not have been available on Deity. The wars were also very quick because the AI didn't have many units.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
Yes. Pagodas were very important for early and mid game happiness. Feed the World was like having an extra Granary in each city.

I only faith bought one GS. I bought 3 GE in the late game because I really didn't need the GS. I also used the Liberty finisher on a late GE.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order?

Spoiler :

Tradition, Liberty, Rationalism, Commerce, Freedom.

I was a bit surprised that the wide empire didn't slow policies too much. It was a bit slower to finish Rationalism (for Satellites), but I finished the World Fair a few turns later and had 5x GW who generated about 7-8k culture each (about 37k total IIRC) which filled out a lot of policies rather quickly.

- What was your VC?
Science.

- What techs did you prioritize?
Education, Scientific Theory, Plastics. Also Chivalry earlier than normal because Keshiks rock!

Overall a fun game. A bit of conquest followed by a friendly tech race.

Here is the economic overview on the turn I launched my ship to Alpha Centauri.

Spoiler :

 

[WackenOpenAir]

He got T183 culture with SS already. I think this map is large enough that sub 170 domination is already good. I messed up my attempt by going the wrong direction so it took much longer and had to wait for astronomy.

You telling me it was possible without astronomy ?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

He got T183 culture with SS already. I think this map is large enough that sub 170 domination is already good. I messed up my attempt by going the wrong direction so it took much longer and had to wait for astronomy.

You telling me it was possible without astronomy ?

Oh now i see, i went the wrong way too, but i had astronomy at T127

I see, i should not have given up, might have won the domination even if i had just finished with spears and pikes. Although i see the final civ that i hadnt seen is quite a bit further when coming from the wrong direction. But if i had not given up, i would have surely sent at least something to scout that direction too and probably found them in time to send a second force that way for a max t160 win.

With knowledge of the map i think T120 domination should be possible. (possibly not even using keshiks, not even building a library let alone a great one, just sending chariot archers and horsemen to the 2 most remote AIs first and after that the ones nearby.)

 

[vadalaz]

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order?

Spoiler :

Tradition, Liberty, Rationalism, Commerce, Freedom.

I was a bit surprised that the wide empire didn't slow policies too much. It was a bit slower to finish Rationalism (for Satellites), but I finished the World Fair a few turns later and had 5x GW who generated about 7-8k culture each (about 37k total IIRC) which filled out a lot of policies rather quickly.

I think the social policy penalty is 5% per city on Large vs 10% on Standard, perhaps that's why it felt odd. Anyhow, your culture game is impressive as always. How you manage to get so many policies in your SVs is beyond me.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

I think the social policy penalty is 5% per city on Large vs 10% on Standard, perhaps that's why it felt odd. Anyhow, your culture game is impressive as always. How you manage to get so many policies in your SVs is beyond me.

AH-HAH! It has been bugging me so much about why the tech's seemed to take forever, and now I know. Map was set to Large instead of Standard. So tricky. Argh, oh well, and yeah 37000 Culture after a world's fair "8 turns later" bulb-a-thon? That sounds like an extra zero was added on, that is absolutely insane! Its the cultural city-states right? Being allied with them for 150+ turns, and then the sistine, globe, and other cultural wonders. Golden ages and buildings in all cities? I must take notes...

I don't even know where to begin adding all of this up to figure this out, I gave up and bulbed my GW's at 700 culture during this game. I think I founded world congress at turn 190, I won before the first vote.

 

[Knowtalent]

Looks like we may have to vary the map size a bit more

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[Mesix]

I think the social policy penalty is 5% per city on Large vs 10% on Standard, perhaps that's why it felt odd. Anyhow, your culture game is impressive as always. How you manage to get so many policies in your SVs is beyond me.

Many of the policies are from GW which I save up for the World's Fair (much like saving GS for the end game bulb fest). I make sure to have Cristo Redentor and max out culture for about 8x turns before spending all of the GW. I also specialize cities.

In this game (and in many if there is sufficient food), my capital was my culture city:

Spoiler :

My first expansion city was a tremendous Petra city which is well suited for science:

Spoiler :

I have been going for a hybrid Tradition/Liberty strategy for science games lately. I open Tradition and then take Liberty through Collective Rule. I use the free settler to found my 2nd city and build another settler (with CR bonus) in my capital soon after. I generally have enough gold by this point in the game from exploring and barbarian hunting to buy another Settler. This gets me 3-4 cities by turn 55-70. Sometimes I will also take Citizenship to get the extra Worker and faster improvements (as I did in this game because it was very wide) and other times I will go for Aristocracy to get the bonus for early wonders (ToA, Petra, and Hanging Gardens are important). I save the Liberty finisher for the end of the game GS bulb so that it doesn't raise the cost of great people, and also provides the most benefit right when I need it. In this game, it turned out that I didn't need it, and got a late GE instead.

The most important part of this strategy is to split the culture and science cities. In a science game, I will set most of my cities to prioritize science, ensuring that they run science specialists as they become available. In my culture center I build all three guilds and also culture generating wonders (especially Hermitage and Alhambra for the bonuses). Notice in the screenshot that I have three great works of music (for a themeing bonus) but no writing or art slots...this is because GA are used for a perpetual Golden Age and GW are all used in conjunction with World's Fair. When I am playing 4 cities, I often have quite a few Artifacts as well, but in this game I didn't have time to build Archaeologists because I was developing 16 cities. All of my caravans are set to deliver food to my science city for maximum population. I also build anything which generates a science bonus in this city.

AH-HAH! It has been bugging me so much about why the tech's seemed to take forever, and now I know. Map was set to Large instead of Standard. So tricky. Argh, oh well, and yeah 37000 Culture after a world's fair "8 turns later" bulb-a-thon? That sounds like an extra zero was added on, that is absolutely insane! Its the cultural city-states right? Being allied with them for 150+ turns, and then the sistine, globe, and other cultural wonders. Golden ages and buildings in all cities? I must take notes...

I don't even know where to begin adding all of this up to figure this out, I gave up and bulbed my GW's at 700 culture during this game. I think I founded world congress at turn 190, I won before the first vote.

Ah, yes, the cultural CS. When sending my warrior/archer teams to complete CS quests, I make sure to get culture CS first if possible. This is especially important early on (when you have only 1-2 cities) because 2 CS allies can effectively double or triple your culture. My order of CS allies is to get bonus culture, food, happiness, and then military. In the early game I may target happiness CS early on (ahead of food), especially when I expand to 4 cities but don't have happiness buildings yet.

Hope this helps.

 

[aafritz17]

- Did you use your UU?
The Keshik was totally responsible for my win. I had never played seriously with Mongolia, and did not know how flexible and powerful they could be.

- How useful was your UA?
Did not use the UA at all. At the end of the game all but 3 or 4 CS were allies (and I earned/bought all those last ones just prior to winning).

- Did you use spying to your advantage?
My only effective use of spying was to steal an ally from a foe.

- Did the map type help or hinder victory and how?
I had trouble due to the map, but it was my own stupidity, not the map itself. Knew it was continents, but I didn't provide for a coastal city until I took Moscow. And Moscow turned out to be a long way from the other continent. I just played that transition badly, I was not prepared like I should have been. Ended up in, what, 325 turns (I think?). Yikes!!! "...and, Mr Fritz, you said your UA was what?"

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?
Lately I have been pounding my head trying to get a diety domination win (using Moriarte's and Consentient's guides, Peddroelm's vids, etc), and I was not expecting to be an early leader in any category (tech, troops, etc). So I was probably a little more "turtle" in the beginning than was necessary.

- Was Faith helpful to achieve victory? How?
No, I pretty much ignored Faith/religion, at least for the early- and mid-game. Did get converted to something, and bought the odd happy-building. And at the end I had a lot of Faith from conquorees, so I bought a couple of GP.

- What Social Policies did you choose and in what order?
Opened Tradition to get my capitol going, full Honor, then into Commerce. Took, I think, six in Autocracy ending with Clausewitz's Legacy, then completed Commerce.

- What was your VC
Domination, which was my goal from T0.

- What techs did you prioritize ?
My most intentional focus was Animal Husbandry > Wheel > Chivalry, all to get to the Keshik. When I began to realize my blunder regarding "continents", Navigation became pretty important. "Didn't it?" he said, sarcasm spewing from his glare......

 

[vadalaz]

@Mesix, thanks for the breakdown of your strategy. I think I'll give it a try in the current science HoF gauntlet.

I normally ignore Cristo but perhaps it's stronger than I give it credit for. It also seems risky to mix Tradition and Liberty for fast science games as you reach Renaissance quite fast, especially when playing a civ like Babylon, but evidently it works, and it works really well. In case of Babylon I suppose you can afford to delay Rationalism a bit, since the extra academies or bulbs provide a lot of science, perhaps more than early Secularism does.

 

[Mesix]

My pleasure Vadalaz. If my tips can help the master to improve his (or her?) game, I'm happy to share.

For benchmarks, on a science VC gauntlet I will generally expand to 4 cities by turn 70. I will finish Education by about turn 100 (+/- 10 turns). I will enter the Renaissance Era via Astronomy (or Printing Press if I have met everyone and don't have a lot of mountains) by about turn 120. By this time I should have Collective Rule and also have finished Tradition. I generally also have Commerce open and sometimes have 1-2 policies in Commerce (right side for Mercantilism) before entering the Renaissance Era. Once I am in the Renaissance Era, I go for Rationalism starting with the right side. I try to time Rationalism (generally finishing with a free social policy or a GW bomb) to get Plastics (I use the Oxford free tech to enter the Modern Era...generally with Radio).

In this game, the Rationalism finisher was used for Satellites due to a late World's Fair and faster than expected tech pace. I had four research agreements mature in the 10ish turns following this which is why the GS were really unnecessary in the end. I also finished Future Tech (2x times IIRC) which means that my science was really overkill this time. If it is timed correctly, I should have just enough GS to bulb the final techs and enough gold to rush the last SS component as the tech is completed.

This biggest downside to my blended approach and having the science center in my first expansion city (to optimize the dirt without wasting time scouting with my starting Settler) is that I generally do not get NC up until after turn 100 because I prioritize Petra and Hanging Gardens before NC.

 

[zxcvbob]

Once I am in the Renaissance Era, I go for Rationalism starting with the right side. I try to time Rationalism (generally finishing with a free social policy or a GW bomb) to get Plastics (I use the Oxford free tech to enter the Modern Era...generally with Radio).

Right side first? Do you get an extra GS or two that way?