TSG 241 Opening Actions Thread

[Nizef]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- What Wonders did you try to get and did you get them?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[raider980]

I've already rage quit I purposely did not steal a worker from Lhasa in hopes of getting a barb camp quest for a camp that was on their doorstep. The quest popped up. But before I could get my units to the camp, the Lhasan's themselves decided to attack it. My spearman was one turn from taking it when - bam a Lhasa spearman takes the camp out! A double whammy of a setback - no worker and no camp quest and now I won't get a religion. I may continue but its probably not worth it.

Spoiler Especially with this next door. :

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

I had a feeling it would be Shaka, after reading @Nizef 's comment in GotM 240

I had a very lucky start. An early pop ruin to three meant that I could go straight into a settler after the first scout. Then I discovered Lhasa and decided I wanted a shrine after all, so I paused the settler to build it. I got first pantheon (I think) and picked messenger of the gods. While resuming settler production, I found another pop ruin, so I had decent 4-pop settler production, especially with all those hills nearby.

Lhasa provided a steady stream of workers, so I only needed to build one myself, from my first expand. I went for standard 4-cty tradition, although at turn 100 I'm not sure I'll stay on 4. More luck came when I switched from settler production to granary. I had forgotten to switch my tiles back, so I almost starved my capital. Thankfully, I just had enough food stored that I got away with it.

When I met Shaka, I immediately gave him a spare cotton. I wanted to get on his good side, because an early war with Shaka will, in the best case, set your game back massively, though more likely you are just dead. Later, he landed some horsemen on my shores, so I paid him to war Lhasa, as I had not met anyone else yet.

My scouting got going quite slowly. I focused on getting the wheel first, for my city connections and therefore pantheon, and getting all my luxuries online. I got optics very late (~T80) and my quinqueremes were not early either, but I felt my cities were good. I only had one internal cargo ship though, because I was a bit unhappy and could not grow anyway.

At turn 100, my NC is up, my workshops are going up, and I am heading towards universities. Now what, though? Turtle on 4 cities, settle a fifth on the island down south that has two unique luxuries? Or perhaps go frigates? My gold is good and I have more iron than God, so it should be feasible here. Naval war may not be the quickest way to a diplo victory, but I like doing naval war, and if I manage to take out Shaka (who built Petra, always a nice wonder to capture), I won't have to worry about him flooding my lands with impis.

 

[Megalou]

Ouch! The vegetable man has left me so far back in his wake that the water isn't even stirring anymore.

Huts: spearman, 65 gold, 20 culture, archery (3 turns left on that...), 75 gold
Tech: pottery, archery (popped with 3 turns left), AH, Writing, mining (poor choice), calendar, sailing, masonry, wheel, BW, Optics (late!), Drama & poetry, trapping, philosophy.
Policy: LIBERTY, Citizenship, republic, coll rule (t49), representation, meritocracy, PATRONAGE (t104). The free leader was used for Gretat Scientist>academy
Build order: Scout, monument, Shrine (becasue we are obviously alone, or am I rationalizing?), granary, caravan (halfway, waiting for Writing tech), library, caravan finished, ToA=38 gold, archer, archer, cargo ship, quinquereme, mausoleum, ...

t8 - met Monaco (as first civ)
t9 - Lhasa, as first civ. 8 faith
t12 - Met Ur as first civ.
t16 - Protecting Lhasa
t19 - First pantheon founded, missed it by 1 turn.
t24 - Pantheon. God of the open sky or messenger of the gods? I find the second one to be the most mature choice. Tech growth will be slow due to no caravans coming our way. But with liberty culture equals growth, and the first pasture will be ready in 4 turns.
t26 - first barb camp discovered near Ur.
t28 - Captured worker from LHasa.
t34 - Befriended UR thanks to barb camp. Replayed three moves (not three turns) identically from autosave because my son turned off the game.
t38 - Allied Ur after barb kill.
t43 - Met Shaka. They have a lot of money but very few luxes.
t44 - Luckily, Ur desires cotton.
t57 - Zulu has a trade route with us. Next neighbour probably distant.
t62 - Morocco. I had to find them! Yerevan.
67 - befriended Lhasa in a desperate hope to get a religion eventually. Seing how Zulu, and later Assyria, have no pantheons, I decide to sacrifice some money to go for the LAST religion available!
t73 - Byzantium and Assyria.
t90 - Forced to delare war on Shaka becauser of a Zulu settler on our continent. Let's hope he doesn't kill us or our ally Monaco.
t91 - The timing was right for picking off another Zulu settler, on the longitudinal island south of our starting continent. But I have almost no military!
t100 - Founded Zoroasterism with Interfaith dialogue and Swords into plowshares. Even though there were 4 religions already - 3 of them enhanced - I got some excellent beliefs.
103 - Peace with Zulu.

Picture 1 shows why I had to declare on Zulu. Pic 2 is from t103.

I did adjust the build orders so that the libraries and the cargo ship are to be finished at the same time.

 

[raider980]

Of course I had to continue. But its not looking good compared to the above two games; I am abysmally behind both on T100. And Shaka's got Impi on my continent.

The game started out well enough. Got some good ruins; spear upgrade, sailing, a useful map, population. Got a pantheon, Messenger of the Gods. But I should've stolen that worker from Lhasa early in the game. Because of my lack of workers I didn't grow, didn't have happiness, which made growth worse, only 3 cities. Oh and Petra went on T58, seems very early to me.

My one saving grace is that its a water map and I'm on my own continent. Until Shaka sends a settler over. So hopefully I can prevent that from happening. Then get ships and dominate the world.

Spoiler Ouch, this is bad :

Spoiler T100 :

 

[fiddlesticks]

Nice looking land - I'm sure there's no expansionist warmonger lurking just past the fog of war....

Early game: Settled in place and planned for a 3-city NC after the initial scouting.

Ruins: spearman (2), map (6), 65g (7), culture (14), map (20 - I had hung around this one a few turns hoping for pop or faith and was disappointed)

Early build order: scout, worker (5), shrine -> settler (23), settler (34), granary (43), q-trireme (50). Expands typically went granary then library and cargo ship. They also built a a few naval units for scouting.

Early war: DoW Ur (27) worker steal 1, worker steal 2 (45), worker steal 3 (56). I used the spearman to soften up a barb in a camp just south of Utique. Knowing it was the only one on the island I expected Lhasa to put out a quest for it, so when it did I could clear it the next turn.

Early social policy and religion: open tradition, oligarchy (20), legalism (35), monarchy (50). Pantheon (stone circles - 35), religion turn 72 (initiation rites, pagodas)

Early tech path: mining, masonry, pottery, calendar, sailing, horseback riding, philosophy, optics

60 - meet Zulu
66 - meet Assyria
70 - DoW Assyria for trade route pillage (200g)
71 - landed elite
72 - finish MoH in Carthage

91 - finish NC
94 - DoW Zulu and steal settler south of Carthage. Begin perma-war with Shaka (still going at turn 175 - Impi kill count ~10)
98 - finish tradition
- start Borobudur (will lose this on turn 104 to Theodora)
116 - found Gades down south for the two unique luxuries. I'll finish later this week and post the rest in the after actions thread. I'm taking my time cycling naval units in and out of the Zulu theatre and slowly getting promotions. I'll capture something eventually, but likely not in time to make any difference in the finish time.

 

[glory7]

It's been a while since I played civ 5 - just wanted to play my previous favorite game again and gotm is a good place to start for sure.

Started with monument-scout-granary - two ships - settlers. Tech was optics beeline and lux techs after. Wanted to scout asap to meet city states and other civs for lux exchange.

Tried to bully city states with 2 ships but it didn't work - maybe it was too late to do that when shaka is your close neighbor.

After learning that I am alone in the lsland, I waited t20 to pop last two ruins aiming for faith (not sure this is correct though...). Unfortunately I could not gain faith, so pantheon and religion is out.

Got all workers from Lhasa - perfect spot for worker farming.

2nd and 3rd city places were pretty obvious, but 4th one was not sure. If I did not know about the southern island with 2 other lux, bulawayo place is certainly the top choice for the 4th city.

But it seems that other civs were slow to develop extra lux, so I had to sail south to avoid unhappiness.

Was thinking about settling 5th city after NC, but Zulu settled at the perfect spot couple turns ago. He immediately sent caravan, which is good.

But I am pretty sure that war will be inevitable - try to delay it until I get 3-4 galleass and start accumulating XP while killing zulu. Will need 5-6 frigates to get some capitals later anyway.

 

[Rhodro]

I waited t20 to pop last two ruins aiming for faith (not sure this is correct though...).

Yea this is correct. From turn 20 and onward you can get faith from ruins. I've had it in a recent GOTM.

Tried to bully city states with 2 ships but it didn't work - maybe it was too late to do that when shaka is your close neighbor.

It's really hard to demand tribute from CS on deity. This is because the resist value the CS has that you must overcome is affected by the average military power of all other AI. On Deity the AI starts with so many units that this resist value becomes high fast.
IIRC the only civ that can tribute decently on deity early is Shoshone when they upgrade a few pathfinders to compbows with ruins.

 

[RuntyBassoon143]

Small Continents + Dido + Diplomatic Victory = Liberty

Given these conditions, I prefer Liberty because you need to get triremes out asap to explore and the extra production and free settler allow you to squeeze ships into your build order. On small continents I find scouting early to be critical for your economy and happiness. And if necessary, with Dido you can rush a neighbor using your unique units (land or sea).

Now to the action.

Spoiler Turn 0-10 :

We settle in place and build a scout. Next will be monument, switch to shrine, then finish monument. Given the priorities above, we’re going pottery -> sailing, and starting a trireme ASAP. We also need to get 220g to rush buy a trireme. Early ruins give us a warrior upgrade, map, and 65g, and we are first to meet Monaco, Lhasa, and Ur.

Spoiler Turn 11-30 :

On turn 11 we could possibly grab a ruin, but we are two turns from 3 pop, so we will wait. On turn 13 we grow and grab the ruin… for 20 culture (not bad) and open Liberty. Lock new citizen on production tile until shrine completes in 2 turns, then switch to continue growth. On turn 16, we get our free pop ruin; next turn we finish the monument and start the granary for 3 turns. On turn 20, adopt Republic, and switch to building triremes; start researching calendar.

The following turn (21) adopt Oral Tradition and steal a worker from Lhasa. On turn 24, have enough gold to buy a trireme; turn 27, start building second trireme.

Spoiler Turn 31-50 :

On turn 32, start the first settler; next turn, steal another worker from Lhasa; turn 35, adopt collective rule. Found Utique turn 38 on the eastern, coastal hill, buying the salt tile in 2nd ring, and building a monument; start Optics. Turn 39, build another settler. After the settler, Carthage will finish the granary, then start workboat.

Found Hippo Regius turn 44 on the tundra, river, coastal hill to the north, and build a monument; steal another worker from Lhasa on turn 49. Wait until turn 50 when Utique grows to 3 pop, putting happiness at 0, then found Gades on the southern coastal river tile next to the mountain, and build a monument. This brings happiness to -4, so switch Carthage to settler and max focus production in all cities.

Spoiler Turn 51-70 :

By the time settler finishes we will have a quarry on the marble. Then finish the workboat for connecting luxury in Hippo Regius, and build a cargo ship.

On turn 61, steal a worker and make peace with Lhasa; next turn give 500g to ally Samarkand. Found Saguntum on turn 64 on the continent to the south on the river, coastal hill, and build a monument. On turn 67, I see 3 Zulu spearman coming to my continent, so I buy an archer in Gades and move my triremes to the channel between Monaco and the western peninsula. Next turn, I finish my cargo ship and send it to Monaco for a quest. Turn 69, adopt Representation (Golden Age).

Spoiler Turn 71-100 :

On turn 74, get bronze working from ruin; turn 78, get a free pop ruin for Saguntum and pay 500g to ally Monaco. The next turn finish Liberty and take a Great Engineer. On turn 85, finish last library and rush the the National College; also pay 500g to ally Kuala Lumpur.

Spoiler Turn 101-120 :

Turn 107, pay 250g each to Monaco and Kuala Lumpur to retain alliance. On turn 109, sign a research agreement with Suleiman; two turns later sign one with Theodora. Turn 115, finish education; next turn, trigger natural golden age and start building universities in Carthage, Utique, Hippo Regius, and Saguntum. Next turn, bribe Shaka (10 GPT) to DoW Assyria. On turn 120, start university in Gades.

Spoiler Build Orders :

Carthage (0): scout, start monument, shrine, finish monument, start granary, trireme, trireme, settler, settler, finish granary, start workboat, settler, finish workboat, cargo ship, archer, library, stable, lighthouse, National college, water mill, workboat x4, cargo ship, aqueduct, writer guild, market, university

Utique (38): monument, trireme, trireme, lighthouse, library, stoneworks, granary, workboat x2, shrine, workboat, galleass, aqueduct, market, university

Hippo Regius (44): monument, lighthouse, library, granary, watermill, cargo ship, shrine, stoneworks, galleass, aqueduct, market, university

Gades (50): monument, library, lighthouse, watermill, granary, aqueduct, market, university

Saguntum (64): monument, library, granary, watermill, aqueduct, university

Spoiler Tech Path and Policies :

Pottery, sailing, calendar, animal husbandry, mining, optics, masonry, archery, wheel, writing, trapping, horseback riding, philosophy, bronze working (free), theology, compass, construction, math, engineering, currency, civil service, education, guilds, iron working, metal casting

Liberty (13), republic (20), collective rule (35), citizenship (53), representation (69), finish liberty (79), patronage, philanthropy (105), scholasticism (120).