TSG 273 Opening Actions

[vadalaz]

This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play.

Quick links: Announcement thread | After actions

- What did you think about before starting the game, what was your approach to this game?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose?
- Did you get a religion? What religious beliefs did you pick?

 

[zxcvbob]

Turn 100. I've built the NC already (usually I'm just about getting to it by 100 but have to wait for a library somewhere). I have 3 cities, ToA, Petra, Oracle, and HG. Now I'm building walls and military; I'm sure Napoleon is planning to attack soon and I want to be ready to turn the tables on him. As I was finishing my first settler (which I built really early: scout, scout shrine, settler) he settled 2 tiles away from where I was headed, and way too close to my capital. So he's going to have to die eventually. I am friends with William, but he's a little perturbed that I settled my 3rd city too close to Amsterdam. (it's not *that* close) I will kill him too if I have to, but I'd rather remain friends if possible.

Social policies were straight Tradition, then the Patronage opener. Tech path was Pottery, Archery, Mining (from an ancient ruin), AH, Writing, then beelined Currency for Petra. I also got either Calendar or Bronze Working from an ancient ruin but I don't remember which.

I have founded and enhanced a religion: Desert Folklore, Pagodas, Feed the World, and Itinerant Preachers. Hopefully it will sweep across the land, and the religious civs will waste all their faith trying unsuccessfully to push back.

 

[Megalou]

Settled 1SW on the copper. I wish I had met Ife a little earlier, so that a shrine hadn't been necessary. I got the 8 faith from Vatican city early, but since the game would be lost without Desert Folklore, I added the shrine as a precaution, going scout-scout-shrine then a worker and an archer.

Then the question was whether to get settlers out ASAP or let the capital grow a bit first. I chose the second option this time, going granary and Great Library, then National College sometime between t56-t60. You can see from the t83 screenshot below how puny my expos are, and I haven't even gotten the third one founded yet. (You can see the last settler heading east.) And the first Golden age has come too soon even though I sold all my copper to postpone it while making a buck. But the capital is quite powerful. It felt a bit wacky to start with a horseman in Rabat rather than a library, but the horseman would be useful as the French came brusquely a'knocking.

It would be interesting to compare with those of you who built or bought libraries in the expos before hitting National College. For @zxcvbob , the capital is about 17 turns behind mine, but Rabat is nice and big.

Thankfully, I got an early culture ruin, to get into the Tradition tree. It was completed around t77-78 and I then turned to the Liberty tree, workers being a bit scarce. I eventually got Republic and Citizenship before it was time to plunge into the Rationalism tree.

Petra was finished on turn 82 after Great Library, National College and Hanging Gardens. Then it was the Writer's Guild, more archers, and Pyramids, which only took 4 turns.

I started with the 4 first tier technologies. Subsequent targets were Philosophy (via Great Library), Civil Service (t83), then Education and Chivalry.

As for religion, I was happy to choose Initiation Rites rather than Tithe, because there would be a lot of missionaries running around converting cities. I don't see much else to do with a huge amount of faith long before the Industrial period. You can plant some prophets, but then they start to get expensive.
Pantheon: Desert Folklore
Founder belief: Initiation Rites
Follower belief: Divine Inspiration
2nd follower belief: Pagodas
Enhancer belief: Holy Order (-30%)

 

[zxcvbob]

As for religion, I was happy to choose Initiation Rites rather than Tithe, because there would be a lot of missionaries running around converting cities. I don't see much else to do with a huge amount of faith long before the Industrial period. You can plant some prophets, but then they start to get expensive.

You set your religion to auto-buy missionaries or inquisitors (after you have faith buildings everywhere), then you park a civilian unit in each city where you *dont* want one to spawn. The faith will just keep piling up and you'll enter the industrial era with way more in the bank than the cost of a prophet. When I have huge cities, I like to have an inquisitor in each city, and for the most part they keep new ones from spawning (sometimes a caravan will kick the inquisitor out and a new one will spawn -- but that's okay; they make good artillery spotters)

BTW, I mentioned above that I thought France was preparing to attack me. He declared war on turn 120. It didn't go so well for him, and now everybody hates me even though the last city I took was Karakorum and I liberated it. Even Genghis Kahn denounced me

 

[Megalou]

You set your religion to auto-buy missionaries or inquisitors (after you have faith buildings everywhere), then you park a civilian unit in each city where you *dont* want one to spawn. The faith will just keep piling up and you'll enter the industrial era with way more in the bank than the cost of a prophet. When I have huge cities, I like to have an inquisitor in each city, and for the most part they keep new ones from spawning (sometimes a caravan will kick the inquisitor out and a new one will spawn -- but that's okay; they make good artillery spotters)

BTW, I mentioned above that I thought France was preparing to attack me. He declared war on turn 120. It didn't go so well for him, and now everybody hates me even though the last city I took was Karakorum and I liberated it. Even Genghis Kahn denounced me

Yet spreading religion to 20 cities means 2000 gold, quest bonuses and improved relationships with AIs, apart from spreading the beliefs in your own civ. if instead you have to have a civilian standing around in every city that civilian will be useless and will cost upkeep.

 

[zxcvbob]

Yet spreading religion to 20 cities means 2000 gold, quest bonuses and improved relationships with AIs, apart from spreading the beliefs in your own civ. if instead you have to have a civilian standing around in every city that civilian will be useless and will cost upkeep.

I don't disagree at all. But I always have a few civilian units just standing around anyway. If nothing else, a couple of inquisitors and a great scientist or two, and perhaps a great general waiting for something to do. By parking them in cities instead of just near cities, I can keep prophets from spawning and eating up all my faith that I can use later for an engineer at just the right time, and several scientists at the end.

 

[Megalou]

It's true, pretty soon there will be GSs and GWs hanging around waiting for their power to increase. I think I might try these tactics again, but I am wary that it is not foolproof (or Megalouproof) and if there is a slip I may end up with a 2300 faith prophet instead of 10 pretty useful missionaries. We'll see how it turns out in the second spoiler.

 

[enKage]

I settled on copper, because the warrior revealed more desert wetwheat. t2 I got additional population, so I went double scout slightly faster. I don't know how to tradition but this screams for tradition.First settler at 4pop, south on mountain.
Ife and Vatican gave me desert folklore without even building a shrine, granary built instead.
Techwise Potter (Granary), minaning, AH, and prereq for Philosophy, which was GLibbed. Then switch to Petra.

I am very low on workers, the French had too much units early, so the safiest bet was to bribe him to declare on Dido instead of worker stealing, and they are in forever war, still the French have some nasty units parked nearby. I stole only one from Bratislava.

Wonders: GLiB, NC, ToA, Petra, 2 turn to Hagia Sophia.
Expansions: NE ready in 1st Rabat, the 2nd expansion go Hanging Gardens, as basically everyone in game went Liberty (except Sweden, Gustav went 1lib, 1trad, 1patr). 4th city in few turns, just for marble near the Dutch, not sure though if worth it.
French have Pyramids, Willem has Parthenon

Religion: Pagoda + Tithe. I was considering gold from conversion, but I simply don't know how expansive those civs would be. The Dutch and Mongolia are not settling a lot of cities usually. If it was Immortal, I woild consider converting faith to science, but I do not expect religions nearby and spreading well. Advanced with production per follower and because I would probably build very few units, +20% defensive strength.

Now 3 turns to Education, but policy in 6 turns, so no Rationalism straight after Tradition I consider few perks in Piety to reformation so I don't have to finish rationalism

Spoiler :

At 118

Spoiler :

I Oracled first policy in ratio

 

[sebtanic]

Interesting to see how everybody settled in very different places.

I put a city next to Old Faithful. For some reason I believed it would give me the 2 science just by having it in my territory, but of course you have to work the tile to get the science. Which I did maybe for a few turns, but then growth and production became more important. So it's not that useful of a NW after all except for the happiness which I guess probably helped to keep me above 0.

I focussed on population growth this time, and built all the relevant wonders. Also I got super lucky with pop ruins. Got the first one right after settling, then two more every 3 ruins I popped. And a 4th one later, popping a ruin on the fringes of the map.

Game log:
Ruins: t1 pop, t4 20 culture, t7 spear, t8 pop, t12 80g, t23 20c, t25 pop, t27 50g, ... map, camp, t83 pop

early BO: Scout, scout, shrine, settler, settler

t16 DF
t24 bought worker
t44 founded Islam: Tithe, extra growth at peace
t66 enhanced: Extra prod, faster spread
t67 ToA
t77 completed Tradition
t82 HG
t89 Petra

I built the NC after Petra but didn't note the turn it completed, probably t95-ish.

France invaded me around t98, but they're pretty easy to fend off. I've even been able to defend all 3 of my caravans. (One got killed by barbs earlier, so this time I had units around to protect them.)

The question will be which French cities to take when I strike back. I'll definitely raze Orleans because it's too close to my borders, but not sure how many of the other citites I want.

Map at turn 100:

 

[lerrocco]

Real life certainly threw a few challenges my way this and last year, but the stars aligned and I found myself with some spare time. My first ever non domination game in civ 5 and my civ 2-4 experience counts for little in here.
So.. as this is a learning platform, I would happily encourage and listen to feedback and help. I played the first 100 turns more or less on auto pilot. What should I be doing now, just prioritizing education? What policies do I need to prioritize?
I have completed the Tradition tree for the first time ever, my next policy is in a few turns, i was thinking Liberty for the pyramids, or Piety for the religion push?

I settled 3 cities expecting France to attack me at some point, and I left happiness. room to take some of their cities. But the attack never came and I am 100 turns in with 3 cities. Is this enough? Just looking at the map a 4th city would connect my existing expos quite nicely and allow for internal trade routes to Fes.

scout scout granary was the build order. My ruins were not spectacular, a couple of unit upgrades, a pop expansion and 2 culture ruins, no tech and I think 1 gold? rest were maps and barb camp locations. I had a pantheon from the CS, I havent built a shrine yet, is this a mistake, or something I should do now? I got desert folklore, with tithe and pagodas. I got a prophet as I wasnt keeping a check of my faith score, and upgraded the religion to buying units with faith and 20% defence bonus in friendly territory, I figured if I am to go to war this game it will be defensive.

I spread my religion to my cities, but am thinking of going harder now with faith.

I had a 3 city NC around T73. I bought a lot of land tiles and one worker I bought the library in Fes, built the other 2. Workers were scarce, I stole one from bogata and walked it home alone. I had 3 workers from barb camps and didnt give them back for the influence, but kept them. I have the option of giving them to barbs later and rescuing them again.

I built Petra (before NC I think) and on T100 i have hanging gardens and the start of my golden age.

My plan is to enhance my religious buildings, consider a 4th city and make sure I have enough defensive units, while prioritizing education and science.
I watched some filthy robot videos for the early game tactics, combined with my previous domination games. Rather than blindly stumble onward I will now look how to complete a science victory, and part of that process is asking you kind folks for hints and suggestions from here.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

My very early game was a little disappointing. I got a very early pop-ruin, but then a barb ruin and a map ruin. The map ruin showed me two more ruins, but William took both of those from under my nose. I also did not meet the religious CS in time, so I had to go scout-scout-shrine. After that, though, I found more ruins including three more (!) pop ruins, so in the end I was building settlers at pop 6. I did get desert folklore thankfully. Even though earth mother would have been decent as well, it would have been hard looking at the tiles all game long and not seeing the faith on them.

The lands are like an embarrassment of riches. There is so much good desert to settle, that I did not know how many and where to settle. In the end, I went for six cities in total (for now, anyway), although I am not 100% pleased about their placement. First of all, there is a gaping hole in my lands which I might still fill up later, and also I planted Rabat and Sale with no hills in the first ring - and of course the governor never grows to these tiles on its own.

Some challenges of my setup is that with six cities (and Kasbahs still to come), I need a lot of workers. I got a lucky double steal from William early on, and I stole one from Panama city, but I could not keep my unit around to camp for more steals. A bit later I stole another worker and a settler from William, but I also had to build quite a few. I am also pretty happiness starved, so I took the (for me) radical decision not to go religious community, but instead do mosques and pagodas (with tithe and spreads further). Another problem might have been getting the good wonders, but I've been pretty lucky. After building the final settler, the capital built ToA first - a must-have wonder for me. Then, Great Library was still there, so I attempted that too. William had been working on it for some time, and some others had started on it too, but crippled by the wars I declared on them, they let me have GL on turn 73. I let Fes build Petra, and I have yet to start on Hanging gardens somewhere. Oracle remains to be seen whether I can postpone it until Renaissance, or whether I want to use it to get to Mercantilism in Commerce.

 

[vadalaz]

What should I be doing now, just prioritizing education? What policies do I need to prioritize?
I have completed the Tradition tree for the first time ever, my next policy is in a few turns, i was thinking Liberty for the pyramids, or Piety for the religion push?

I'd consider Patronage for Forbidden Palace, or Commerce for Big Ben and Mercantilism later. Piety for SV is useful in a wide empire if you can get Jesuit Education, and there's certainly enough faith for it on this map - but that costs 4 policies and an AI might get there first.

In general you want to really buff your culture once you enter Renaissance. The quicker you acquire key Rationalism policies, the better. Prioritize cultural CSs, save up Great Artists for late game golden ages and Great Writers to burn them for culture after you win World's Fair, that sort of thing.

I settled 3 cities expecting France to attack me at some point, and I left happiness. room to take some of their cities. But the attack never came and I am 100 turns in with 3 cities. Is this enough? Just looking at the map a 4th city would connect my existing expos quite nicely and allow for internal trade routes to Fes.

3 cities aren't enough for a fast finish time as Morocco on King. Since you took Holy Warriors, I think going on the offensive, taking Paris and other cities that look good would be a reasonable plan. I'd aim for 5 cities at a minimum, but preferrably 7+

I had a pantheon from the CS, I havent built a shrine yet, is this a mistake, or something I should do now?

Skipping the shrine is good in your case. Whether to build it later or not depends on how much faith you want to save up to purchase Great People in the very late game. Buying two Great Scientists costs 2500 faith, three 5000, four 9000. With experience you can estimate how quickly you're going to win the game, and calculate whether your current faith output is high enough to buy all the Great People you want in time. If it's not, then you might need more religious buildings, city-states, or simply work more faith tiles.

If you do choose to go Piety, there's a bit of a cheesy trick you can do with shrines. Once a city has over 40 base production, you can build a shrine there in 1 turn and put the overflow into whatever you actually need to build, then sell the shrine and repeat the process.Thanks to Piety's 100% production bonus, the overflow is so great that you'll generate more production this way than if you were building things normally.

E.g.: you have 80 hammers; assuming you have a workshop and factory, this would generate (80 + 80) * 1.2 = 192 hammers over two turns. If you build a shrine first, you'll generate 80 * 2.2 = 176 hammers on the first turn, 40 of which will go into the Shrine itself, leaving 136 overflow, and next turn you'll generate the normal 80 * 1.2 = 96 hammers, giving you a total of 136 + 96 = 232 hammers. This can be relevant for building key wonders, World Projects, science buildings or SS parts quickly.

 

[lerrocco]

Many thanks, I did neglect culture, but realised I should catch up. I am 250 turns in, 5 cities and leader by a long way. It's still civ at the end of the day, but took me a few turns to realise what filling slots in buildings does.
I just have level 3 in order, spaceship parts built by engineers, I have a couple of engineers sitting, but only just past dynamite and railroads.
Capital has 20+ wonders, I am way ahead. I could, and probably should have, built more culture wonders, though I am allied with culture CS.

I wont win the fastest time but as a first ever attempt at non domination, I await the "old dog wins new trick" award, if I actually win. I could have won a domination victory on this map a long long time ago.

 

[Bol]

I got my best start by far I think, quite happy with how it's turning out (NB: I've actually finished the game already, but forgot to post here...) Love the map and I guess you can build as wide as you wish, for for this one I decided to keep it simple with 4 cities tradition.
Settled on copper and built 2x Scout -> Shrine (dropped at half) -> Scout waiting for pop3 -> 3x Settler.
I stopped building a Shrine since I got Desert Folkore T14 through meeting 2 city states, so there was no need to finish it, and I got religion (tithe + pagodas T43).
I got insane ruins luck: culture T4, tech (AH) T6, Scarcher T10, culture again T11, gold T12, map T16 (only miss), 60 faith T23, cap to pop 4 T25, tech (Calendar) T26, gold T33. The culture boost in particular was so good that I finished tradition T76, so I took a filler in commerce before T100.
I settled the expansions in some of the plenty river basins in a way that kept the empire somewhat compact, and I focus on growth as always (I actually somewhat struggled with production in the early-mid game).
Wonder-wise (note that I got +wonder prod right after monuments) I got ToA T62, Petra T77, HG T93 (all in the cap) and NC T98, while I got CivilService T95.

52 pop with NC, CivilService and 100+ bpt might be my best opening (not surprising given the disgustingly good map), if anything I struggled with happiness since I had too much growth and no trades available.
I also "struggled" with having a lot of unimproved tiles worked: I built 2 and stole 4 total: 1 from the Dutch (although quite late), 2 from the CS in the corner, but again quite late since even on king they never come online, 1 from a camp; I also stole a 5th that was far and I gave back for temporary culture alliance. Probably I should have built at least one extra, if not two.
+70 food in capital was insane, and almost +30/30/20 in expansions was great as well.

Finally, the beautiful Marrakech (which I visited irl during the Easter holidays, and I loved).

 

[Megalou]

I got my best start by far I think, quite happy with how it's turning out (NB: I've actually finished the game already, but forgot to post here...) Love the map and I guess you can build as wide as you wish, for for this one I decided to keep it simple with 4 cities tradition.
Settled on copper and built 2x Scout -> Shrine (dropped at half) -> Scout waiting for pop3 -> 3x Settler.
I stopped building a Shrine since I got Desert Folkore T14 through meeting 2 city states, so there was no need to finish it, and I got religion (tithe + pagodas T43).
I got insane ruins luck: culture T4, tech (AH) T6, Scarcher T10, culture again T11, gold T12, map T16 (only miss), 60 faith T23, cap to pop 4 T25, tech (Calendar) T26, gold T33. The culture boost in particular was so good that I finished tradition T76, so I took a filler in commerce before T100.
I settled the expansions in some of the plenty river basins in a way that kept the empire somewhat compact, and I focus on growth as always (I actually somewhat struggled with production in the early-mid game).
Wonder-wise (note that I got +wonder prod right after monuments) I got ToA T62, Petra T77, HG T93 (all in the cap) and NC T98, while I got CivilService T95.

View attachment 743306

52 pop with NC, CivilService and 100+ bpt might be my best opening (not surprising given the disgustingly good map), if anything I struggled with happiness since I had too much growth and no trades available.
I also "struggled" with having a lot of unimproved tiles worked: I built 2 and stole 4 total: 1 from the Dutch (although quite late), 2 from the CS in the corner, but again quite late since even on king they never come online, 1 from a camp; I also stole a 5th that was far and I gave back for temporary culture alliance. Probably I should have built at least one extra, if not two.
+70 food in capital was insane, and almost +30/30/20 in expansions was great as well.

View attachment 743307

Finally, the beautiful Marrakech (which I visited irl during the Easter holidays, and I loved).

View attachment 743308

Amazing!

 

[sebtanic]

You set your religion to auto-buy missionaries or inquisitors (after you have faith buildings everywhere), then you park a civilian unit in each city where you *dont* want one to spawn.

Thanks, I didn't know that trick! Took me a while to get the hang of it, the 500 and 800 faith GPs still came through but now I can finally save up some faith.