TSG87 Opening Actions thread

[leif erikson]

Welcome to the TSG87 Opening Actions thread.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. We are going to try something new and limit your game description in this thread to the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

- How did you open this advanced start?
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?

 

[Ribannah]

I doubt we will reach 100 turns.

 

[leif erikson]

One way or the other?

 

[budweiser]

Yes, full Autocracy.

Settled on the hill. Did not see any neighbors until about 3 turns in, but chose Fight to start with anyway. Good thing because here is Genghis and I received a double DoW around 1915. That played into my hands and I carefully arty crawled to his cap with GW bomber support. Settled 3 cities coastal and favored teching while I slowly kill him.

I was alarmed partway in that China was going for science and by the 1940s she sent up a swarm of rifles and arty to Berlin. Too bad that's right when my bombers and Panzers came online. Now its 1948 and China will have to face my Rocket Artillery in a few turns. She is already down 1 city.

I am slowly exposing the ocean and I have three BB at sea right now. I am besties with Shaka and I hope he can damage the other continent. Rome is going cultural. I don't see anyone else as a threat. China should be dead soon.

I'm not the fastest player, but at least I think the game is under control.

 

[Acken]

I'm 36 46 turns in.

Spoiler :

Money low in screenshot due to bribes.

I founded 3 coastal since in my tests I really loved my exploration opener and the advantage of cargos.
3 or 4 turns in just after founding my east city, I see that genghis capital is next to me and he chose order. So I know he will DoW me very fast. This is not the ideal scenario that I had in some test game but I adapt and switch research to flight instead of railroad. I also build 3 artillery after the few first buildings. My plan is to at least be able to defend and if he is weak to kill him.

Later on, the DoW comes and I defend easily but 3 artillery aren't enough to make me advance and I lose 2 early infantry. I make one bomber to ease defense. All goes well in a status quo until my science focus pays off and I kill him with Rocket Artillery and Paratroopers. A few turn later his cap fall, I upgrade to XCOM and his second city fall.

Next is China and Assur will fall to missile cruisers around the same time as Beijing I'd say. Stealth bombers tech is close.

- How did you open this advanced start?
Exploration(4) Rationalism(1) then later Secularism and then everything in autocracy. I currently have 4 policy in Autocracy since all my money goes into buying city states. Now I have 3 CS allies, it's time to rush buy units.
- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
On coast.
Capital: Ironworks, East Indian, NC, Circus Maximus, University, Artillery, Aqueduct, Hanse, School, Bomber, Writer Guild, Armory, Heroic, Military academy, Units
Expansions: Worker(x2 in first founded), 3x Cargo Ship, University, Artillery, Aqueduct, Hanse, School, Armory, Academy, Units
- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
Continents = Ships
Modern start = Get things going as fast as possible getting flat bonuses first
- What were your initial priorities?
Not die, get the science rolling since my strategy involves advanced units then mass units preferably before the tech to use upgrades
- What tech path did you follow and why?
Flight (defense against GK), Railroad (production), Labs (boost science), then to XCOM
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
Exploration for the early production boost, Rationalism for the science boost and autocracy for better units
- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?
GK started it, status quo until 30 turns in the game where I rolled over him with better tech.

 

[notyourtypical]

30 turns in. I settled in place, the other 2 on the coast, similar to Acken. I took 1 into Tradition for the border pops, 2 into exploration for +3 production, and the rest into Autocracy.

Capital built Ironworks, Circus Maximus, Aqueduct, Hospital, and then Science buildings. Satellites build 2 Cargo Ships, Aqueduct, Cargo Ship and Hanse. I worked merchant slots to send to Bogota and Bucharest for gold and culture. I rigged elections in each before spying on AIs.

I researched flight and bought/built 5 bombers and a fighter just in time for Ghengis' attack. I have taken him out and are moving on China. I will be able to upgrade my units shortly, but I think this army is big enough to finish off the continent. I just built Research Labs, so tech will be fast the rest of the game. I plan on building a navy and some tanks to send to Askia first, as he went Order. If I have Uranium I will save my cash to buy a few to help speed up clearing out the other continent.

It's been fun so far!

 

[Gamewizard]

I settled on the starting coastal hill, sent 1 settler south coastal and the other east coastal. Ironworks first, 2 policies into exporation for the hammers, 3 into order for cheaper building costs, happy monuments, and 7 pop cities. Rush bought university immediately in the capital and started working the 2 scientist slots. All 7 cargo ships went to CS as the 6 extra pop and lack of unique luxuries caused some happy issues. While beelining panzers I built 5 or so artilleries and dow'd mongolia. Lost a couple rifles waiting for the panzers to come online but that was good because I hit the unit limit. The year is 1940 and his capital is mine. Working toward rocket artillery and then A-bombs.

Note - No civ took freedom...odd.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

At turn 38, just finished X-Coms.

- How did you open this advanced start?
Full Order (with factory speedup and +2 prod city, +1 for mines)
-- I took the free GE and GS as policy #6 (rushed plastics, used the GE for Hubble), next policy was the Exploration opener, figuring I don't need any more Order.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Hill on the starting cap, waddled southwest and east on the coast for the other two.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
I wandered a little looking for coal, otherwise, just wanted to be on the coast for the cargo ship grow speed.

- What were your initial priorities?
Because I went Order and my immediate neighbors also did (Genghis and Askia) I figured I was not at risk for early war (though I wasted some $$ and bribed Genghis to attack China anyway). So I went with the uber-science approach. I'm too lazy for early war anyway!

- What tech path did you follow and why?
--> Plastics -->Satellites -->Nanotech and now will go for atomic theory

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
I just like Order for the GS/GE for Hubble, the prod boost, and faster factories (had to trade with Genghis for his coal). Autocracy was very strong in tests too -- glad I went Order given what Genghis picked!

- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?
No war yet, but starting to churn on Rocket Artillery and Missile Cruisers. Within 20 turns should have a nice little force. Part of me thinks I should take out Khan but I have a 10 tech lead on him right now (!!) so probably best to go right to China, as China is 2nd in tech.


Turn 60: 3 caps down, including 2nd in tech (China). Shaka still has 3 cities though, and all island, but I don't think he's going to be able to finish the spaceship in the next 20 turns, and I am hoping the game doesn't last that long. Bad idea to wait so long waddling over to Egypt, going to be a pain taking it as it's nowhere near the coast.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Acken -- how did you get to X-Coms so fast without even beelining for Labs? Secularism, I guess? I thought 38 was super-fast given I popped a GS for Plastics and then the two Hubble GS for X-Coms.

 

[Acken]

Rationalism + Secularism will give you an easy 20-25% boost to science if you use enough specialists. I also generate 2 natural GS + 1 natural GE (for Prora). I used Oxford for Plastics and made a lab in capital.

Didn't think about a GE for Hubble good idea I think.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

Rationalism + Secularism will give you an easy 20-25% boost to science if you use enough specialists. I also generate 2 natural GS + 1 natural GE (for Prora). I used Oxford for Plastics and made a lab in capital.

Didn't think about a GE for Hubble good idea I think.

LOL I forgot to use Oxford. Again.

 

[Acken]

Scratch that I'm dumb The screenshot is taken at 46 turns not 36 xD

So Xcom came online turn 42-44 a bit longer than in my test game due to early war.

 

[TheGrumpyBuddha]

At turn 38, just finished X-Coms.

- How did you open this advanced start?
Full Order (with factory speedup and +2 prod city, +1 for mines)
-- I took the free GE and GS as policy #6 (rushed plastics, used the GE for Hubble), next policy was the Exploration opener, figuring I don't need any more Order.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?
Hill on the starting cap, waddled southwest and east on the coast for the other two.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
I wandered a little looking for coal, otherwise, just wanted to be on the coast for the cargo ship grow speed.

- What were your initial priorities?
Because I went Order and my immediate neighbors also did (Genghis and Askia) I figured I was not at risk for early war (though I wasted some $$ and bribed Genghis to attack China anyway). So I went with the uber-science approach. I'm too lazy for early war anyway!

- What tech path did you follow and why?
--> Plastics -->Satellites -->Nanotech and now will go for atomic theory

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
I just like Order for the GS/GE for Hubble, the prod boost, and faster factories (had to trade with Genghis for his coal). Autocracy was very strong in tests too -- glad I went Order given what Genghis picked!

- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?
No war yet, but starting to churn on Rocket Artillery and Missile Cruisers. Within 20 turns should have a nice little force. Part of me thinks I should take out Khan but I have a 10 tech lead on him right now (!!) so probably best to go right to China, as China is 2nd in tech.


Turn 60: 3 caps down, including 2nd in tech (China). Wiped out China and Genghis, only took Shaka's cap. Shaka still has 3 cities though, and all inand, but I don't think he's going to be able to finish the spaceship in the next 20 turns, and I am hoping the game doesn't last that long. Bad idea to wait so long waddling over to Egypt, going to be a pain taking it as it's nowhere near the coast.

 

[DrakenKin]

I suggest we post a screenshot on turn 30 instead of 100.

Spoiler :

QUESTIONS

- How did you open this advanced start?

3 autocracy, 2 patronage for the 20 influence points.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?

Saw the 2 fish north, but preferred to settle in place to have more hills for late game production. City west in obvious spot next to CS and bought diamond tile. East city right side in genghis frontyard, a couple of tiles to the right of my ideal placement to enable range for early bombers to hit his city & surroundings.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Ai very close, oil and aluminum available right away. Made me go beeline for early war with bombers instead of arty to keep things interesting.

- What were your initial priorities?

War ASAP, the only time i took to build my cities was the time needed to research flight.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Flight. Researching the bottom of the tree while stealing the middle. Oxforded Radio for the early extra spy and bomber upgrade. Beelined satellites for the other spy and science boost.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Autocracy for obvious reasons (double ressources, extra military damage, extra military production, extra xp), with side dish of patronage because cultural CS are so powerful on modern start.

- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?

I went to war as soon as flight was finished and i had 6 bombers, around turn 35 i think. Had bribed Genghis a while ago so he was busy with china. Took his cities and soon the whole continent (they were all order and soon to be hostile to me) fast.

 

[Cromagnus]

Ok, I've played this to t30ish.

- How did you open this advanced start?

Moved all but one of my soldiers down one coast, the other up the other coast. Discovered in test games that 4 Rifleman can demand tribute for the first 10-15 turns before AI military strength is too high.

- Where did you settle and what did you build first?

Moved my first settler closer to the oil and settled on the wine for immediate lux sale and 2 extra gpt. Moved my second settler down the coast and settled south of the cattle. Moved my third settler east, planning to settle on the first wine, but seeing the horses and wheat changed my mind. Settled on the second wine instead.

first build - Berlin: Ironworks. Munich: Circus Maximus. Hamburg: Privateer

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Settling so close to Karakorum made Genghis the obvious first target. Freedom allowed me to generate mad culture early via unit gifting.

- What were your initial priorities?

CS Allies for Culture, Science, Units, Growth, roughly in that order.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Replaceable Parts to upgrade starting Rifleman, to boost defense long enough to build Big Ben and start spitting out advanced units. Then Flight->Railroad->Electronics->Combustion->Rocketry.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Freedom + Commerce for max culture/turn.

- How long before you went to war, who started it and what were the results?

I went to war with Genghis after bribing him to attack China. Waited a couple of turns to let him move units away from capital. Took Karakorum ~t25 or so. He's suing for peace, but I won't give it to him until he offers another city. Building battleships and bombers now. Limited resources will require me to execute war with maximal efficiency until rocket artillery, which is still a ways off. Goal is to clear continent, then use battleships + privateer to invade one coastal capital, build an airport and bring all rocket artillery over, finish with xcom/stealth. (If necessary)

Also, every AI hates me because they all went autocracy/order. And I forgot to use my spies at all until like t20. So I left a lot of culture on the table.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Ok, I've played this to t30ish
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
Freedom + Commerce for max culture/turn.

I've been trying this Freedom approach all day. I played about 8-10 games messing about with it and I have to admit I must be doing it wrong because it is a bit of a pain for me. I end up opening Comm and going 3 deep into Freedom and taking French Legions + opening Exploration for later production with coastal cities. I had games where I took out my cont first and others where I try to take out Zulu while taking China same turn. Anyway I put the whole world at war and backstab them to keep all the goodies in the trades. That works well since they ask for peace usually with some good deal as well and keep fighting the war I bribed. I've had games where I had largest army and others where I was 3rd mostly. I had a game where egypt even gave me Heliopolis which caused some trouble with happiness. Funny though they gave me that city since Rome was crushing them and I was at war with them. I thought great I have an easy city in the middle of other cont to airlift all my units but I had to sell the city since I was at -18 happy. Anyway I think this is one of the more tricky approaches and am looking forward to your finish CROM!!

 

[Cromagnus]

I've been trying this Freedom approach all day. I played about 8-10 games messing about with it and I have to admit I must be doing it wrong because it is a bit of a pain for me. I end up opening Comm and going 3 deep into Freedom and taking French Legions + opening Exploration for later production with coastal cities. I had games where I took out my cont first and others where I try to take out Zulu while taking China same turn. Anyway I put the whole world at war and backstab them to keep all the goodies in the trades. That works well since they ask for peace usually with some good deal as well and keep fighting the war I bribed. I've had games where I had largest army and others where I was 3rd mostly. I had a game where egypt even gave me Heliopolis which caused some trouble with happiness. Funny though they gave me that city since Rome was crushing them and I was at war with them. I thought great I have an easy city in the middle of other cont to airlift all my units but I had to sell the city since I was at -18 happy. Anyway I think this is one of the more tricky approaches and am looking forward to your finish CROM!!

Unfortunately, I haven't had time to play. I can access the forums more easily than I can get time to play CIV5.

My approach was different in one key way: For what I'm shooting for, it's critical to open Commerce + Freedom. The goal is to get Mercantilism, Big Ben, and Arsenal of Democracy ASAP. I opened Arsenal + Mercenary Army, because I have no intention of rush-buying units until I finish Big Ben anyway, so Mercantilism can be last.

I started with one city set to building Privateers because they're the cheapest unit you can build and because I need them to find Cultural CS. When I do find a cultural CS, I gift them. This will get you to ally status within 12 turns. (3 turns for the gift to kick in, 4 gifts at 20 - 12 = 68)

Now, at ally status, you're generating +24 cpt *per Cultural CS Ally*. This blasts me through the policies, (I think I hit 160cpt) and my next goal is Treaty Organization. After I have all Cultural CS allies on the map, I focus on allying every CS on my continent. Why? Because during war it helps *tremendously* to have nearby CS with mobile sams and artillery joining in on the fight, and if they're not with you they're usually against you because the AI has soooo much money.

Mercantilism + Big Ben + Landsknecht = 40g/20 faction. Or 2g/faction point. Thus, it takes exactly 2g/turn to maintain ally status *per CS*. This is insanely good return on investment. You can easily (and quickly) achieve ally status with every CS.

Once you hit Treaty Organization, the synergy really kicks in with Hanse. +35% production (+15% from Arsenal) for building units, and +4 faction/turn with 7 different CS. As the game progresses and you hit +200 or +300 gpt, 16 CS allies EDIT: actually becomes free. 2gpt = 32 gpt to maintain ally status. 4gpt with 7 CS = 28 faction per turn, and you only need 16 faction/turn to maintain ally status. Thus the only gifting you need to do is retake ally status when an AI steals an Ally.

Of course, this all ignores the significant challenge of protecting all those trade routes while fighting an early war and focusing on tech all while spending a ton of gold (initially) on Landsknecht. However, in my test game, culture from CS allies + having them on your side in a fight was HUGELY effective.

But, yeah, it remains to be seen whether it'll pay off on this particular map. It may be that all-out autocracy is more effective at quick victory. So far all the autocracy entries are coming in around 75 turns. My gamble with Freedom was to see if I could achieve t60 victory via the military support (and happiness/growth) of all the CS + extra policies. Allied CS make an excellent beachhead on the other continent. The real strength of the approach is the military help and the happiness. The bonus culture really just makes up for "wasting" 6 points in Freedom. The opportunity cost is that you can't open ANY autocracy policies.

Anyway, I hope to have more time to play tomorrow.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

But, yeah, it remains to be seen whether it'll pay off on this particular map. It may be that all-out autocracy is more effective at quick victory.

I love the detail of your plan. I never tried all this gifting in any of my Freedom runs but Im gonna go in and give that a try, sounds like alot of fun. When I first started playing this GOTM 87 I really didn't like it and still not sure if I do or not, but I can say that I've never played so many rerolls in my life. Im usually a one and done type of player. I think I've played this out over 20 times now trying all 3 tactics. I find Order (+7pop new cities/5yr plan) the easiest actually with late war and huge science/production lead. I guess with everyone going Order on your Cont it gives you more time to produce a strong civ, when you go the other two choices you have to be ready to war early. If this was a Deity challenge starting in the modern era would it change anything?

 

[Cromagnus]

I love the detail of your plan. I never tried all this gifting in any of my Freedom runs but Im gonna go in and give that a try, sounds like alot of fun. When I first started playing this GOTM 87 I really didn't like it and still not sure if I do or not, but I can say that I've never played so many rerolls in my life. Im usually a one and done type of player. I think I've played this out over 20 times now trying all 3 tactics. I find Order (+7pop new cities/5yr plan) the easiest actually with late war and huge science/production lead. I guess with everyone going Order on your Cont it gives you more time to produce a strong civ, when you go the other two choices you have to be ready to war early. If this was a Deity challenge starting in the modern era would it change anything?

I have no idea what Deity is like in late-era starts. This is only the second time I've done a Modern era start. I typically only play games that I can submit to the HOF, and they only accept ancient-era starts.

 

[Avatan]

Full autocracy all the way. crazy amount of happiness and production, double atrategic ressources (very important here). plus it allowed me to completely ignore science thanks to those double rate stealing spies, except for the NC.
Teches to railroad for a crazy +65% production in all cities from the start (30 from Hanse, 25 from railroad and 10 from workshop). Then flight and panzer.

As soon as I hit panzers I forward settle genghis for an air platform and destroy his army, takes his cap and free two CS.
I now (50 turns in?) have conquered Beijing, my army is moving fast, my army workers can Bartley keep up with their railroad of doom.
Assyria should be a breeze.

Modern armor free some oil spots to allow or more battleships and bombers, hope 22 aluminum will be enough.