Turn 106 - 450BC

[akots]

As you can see, they have wheat, cow, long river, grass-plains combination all near their capital!!! This is outrageous!!! Compare this to our start! I don't know what the map designer has been thinking, I just think that he had no brains at all! It is wonder we are still alive. That level of mapmaking is completely unacceptable in a competition like this, where the prestige of a website is at stake! OK, I better shut up, or else I start throwing insults at everyone everywhere. Sorry for this outburst. But I just feel plain stupid trying to squeeze out every piece of food and gold from our "not so bad" terrain whereas CDZ has everything what they need right at their door. Judging by the size and scale of their capital, I roughly estimate they should have at least 3-4 luxuries connected and possibly 5! Crap.

 

[akots]

... I just stick with my military plans ...

It is quite possible to develop a great military plan now in detail with the foundation that you have provided. I think, that we are moving in the right direction there and essentially planning phase may be transferred into the order phase. Just need to get some deal with CDZ.

Then, it would be clear what we can and should commit to war effort. It is clear that they are not that powerful as it could have been despite their outrageously and ridiculously good start. However, they have military and scientific superiority, are in better form of government (Republic), and it is a known fact that they have horses. On the other hand, their Golden Age has apparently already finished or close to the end. And ours GA has not been started yet. It might be also clear that if we show enough committment to friendship and cooperation now and suggest mutual benefit in the relationships, we have a chance to lure CDZ to our side against C3B. And unlike C3B, we can rely on the words of CDZ members. At least, negotiations will be on the point and hopefully on the right point.

 

[croxis]

I say fire the map maker O

 

[Provolution]

Thank you croxis.

 

[Yndy]

Judging by the size and scale of their capital, I roughly estimate they should have at least 3-4 luxuries connected and possibly 5! Crap.

Or maybe they are just playing a lot with the luxury slider. Any wonders being currently built in the Cave?

Off topic: remember me to challenge you in a PBEM when I decide getting into another one. Nice MM.

 

[akots]

No wonder at least none that we know. Well, if they have 20% luxury rate and market and 3 luxuries connected, it can be size 11 in Republic. Don't think they have Temple there but it is possible. More likely they have 4th luxury.

 

[Hygro]

As you can see, they have wheat, cow, long river, grass-plains combination all near their capital!!! This is outrageous!!! Compare this to our start! I don't know what the map designer has been thinking, I just think that he had no brains at all! It is wonder we are still alive. That level of mapmaking is completely unacceptable in a competition like this, where the prestige of a website is at stake! OK, I better shut up, or else I start throwing insults at everyone everywhere. Sorry for this outburst. But I just feel plain stupid trying to squeeze out every piece of food and gold from our "not so bad" terrain whereas CDZ has everything what they need right at their door. Judging by the size and scale of their capital, I roughly estimate they should have at least 3-4 luxuries connected and possibly 5! Crap.

:thumbdown: :shakehead

As you can see, I'm confused, sad, and angry by this as well.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Remember that they probaly also moved for a few turns before making their capital.

 

[akots]

It does not look like they moved. But I'm not sure.

Anarres posted at CDZ that the issue has been voted on before the game started by all teams. CDZ wanted to make the starting locations balanced but majority voted for just a random map without "tundra-desert" starts. So, Admins have generated about 20 or so maps and selected "the most balanced" out of them, moved a bit starting locations "to improve the already well-balanced random map", and more or less randomly assigned these starting locations. Apparently Annka forgot to bribe them or they were not completely sober, or something else interefered like may be one of the Admins has been banned from CFC... I'm running out of hypotheses now...

Anyhow, may be Ankka remebers how CFC voted in this particular poll at UN about use of "random balanced map" or "edited properly balanced map". What we have now is similar to playing Sid Continents map when we share a continent with Sid AI and do not have food bonus on start whereas AI has one. And all the remaining 3 AIs also had a food bonus on start. Who tried Sid will understand. Ankka tried, so he knows.

 

[classical_hero]

Another way they could have got so many citizens and they are still happy is because they have so many productive tiles, they could be using clowns (or entertainers, if you have not been in the single player Demogame).

 

[magnusmarcus]

Akots,
Could we post a poll to make a decision to build a city by C3B's territory? (The hill by the game) We could take the galley being built in savannah and the settler being built in Zoi.(or Kazad-dud) The galley would sail east and pick up the Javelin Thrower in Kazad-Dud.... (our panama city), would cross through the landbridge, and continue up the west side of the continent to its final location.

On a different note can I request a name change of that damn city to something like ....."CFCLionZoo" or "Pirahna Crossing"

 

[Ankka]

It does not look like they moved. But I'm not sure.

Anarres posted at CDZ that the issue has been voted on before the game started by all teams. CDZ wanted to make the starting locations balanced but majority voted for just a random map without "tundra-desert" starts. So, Admins have generated about 20 or so maps and selected "the most balanced" out of them, moved a bit starting locations "to improve the already well-balanced random map", and more or less randomly assigned these starting locations. Apparently Annka forgot to bribe them or they were not completely sober, or something else interefered like may be one of the Admins has been banned from CFC... I'm running out of hypotheses now...

Anyhow, may be Ankka remebers how CFC voted in this particular poll at UN about use of "random balanced map" or "edited properly balanced map". What we have now is similar to playing Sid Continents map when we share a continent with Sid AI and do not have food bonus on start whereas AI has one. And all the remaining 3 AIs also had a food bonus on start. Who tried Sid will understand. Ankka tried, so he knows.

Well, how could I know they were gonna do something like this... and bribing... seems that I forgot to do that.

And Sid AI can be won with an attack. This is more like playing a 5CC game with a Sid AI... like the size comparison.

But you're right, this is in no way fair. Note thought that we aren't so much behind the others on the score... IIRC. At least we're ahead of GCA.


Oh, and I remember someone complaining about the totally edited maps they use at CDZ... so we voted for random, without really unfair starts... Can't remember who it was, though.

 

[Matrix]

Probably me. I don't like these maps where the map maker predefines the outcome of the game.

But this is not what I had in mind! This is not in any way balanced.

Perhaps next time (the finals) they should ask Aggie, a retired professional map maker, to make the next map. He used to be very active at CDZ, but doesn't like to play Civ3 anymore. So he's good, and not in any team.

 

[Hygro]

Aggie stopped playing civ? I seemed to have missed this...

 

[akots]

Could we post a poll to make a decision to build a city by C3B's territory? ...

At present there was not a single objection to the idea and all who spoke, spoke in support. So, the issue seems to be decided but the situation can certainly change. Looks like poll is apparently not needed.

However, we need a deal with CDZ to know our resources and capabilities. And probably for now, since we are not sure in our gpt income, it is hard to tell exactly what we can afford and what we cannot. If we would have to pay 30 gpt for them for the techs, I doubt that we can make the ends meet. Still, the techs seem to well worth it at a glance. On the other hand, we might end up having war with CDZ as well, you never know. Or CDZ may make alliance with C3B and gift all techs to them. Anything is possible, we have to insure ourselves and our long-term survival against any outcome.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

When we got an alliance with CDZ, should we cancle our alliance with C3B, and blame it on the spy thing? But before that, can I make some internal problems for C3B

 

[akots]

Aggie stopped playing civ? I seemed to have missed this...

He switched to Rome: Total War (so did I as well) at least until Civ4 is out. There are also Pirates II and Doom III out there. I'm planning to try all of them but Doom3 demo has been a big disappointment since it is the same old Half-Life just a little bit more scary though not enough to keep me interested for long.

But RTW rocks, it is a great game, probably one of the best ever made. Surprizingly, it has a very sophisticated governor systems and even corruption model has been somewhat similar to Civ.

So, there is one more issue. We need Forbidden Palace. It is essentially required to spend at least a part of Golden Age with FP to improve the benefit of GA. Therefore, it has been prebuilt in TF. No other city has enough shields to build it on its own at least at present. TF is rather resource-rich city and we can be very clowe to FP completion by the time we are ready and will be trying to trigger our GA. Having GA without FP or built close to the end of GA would basically waste about 30% of GA benefit. TF has also the key central strategic location and FP there will substantially decrease overall corruption in the northenr cities and Iron island. To make the city more productive and be able to afford larger population, TF is building market now. I'm not sure if this is the right decision. We could be better off if we keep TF on FP build. But apparently, the issue can be decided by vote unless there is a strong enough reasoning so that everyone will agree.

 

[akots]

When we got an alliance with CDZ, should we cancle our alliance with C3B, and blame it on the spy thing? But before that, can I make some internal problems for C3B

We cannot possibly imagine ourselves allied with C3B. Not after they have rejected the tech deal. Also, the discussions during the last chat with their Foreign affairs dude were very hot and not friendly. He certainly had overstepped some general limits of how it is possible to keep the alliance alive. While being accused of a number of very unfortunate circumstances, he made little effort to counter that and looked rather eager to extort additional pledges and gifts from our team while refraining from similar actions for the C3B team. We don't need to blame JokerDF for everything since their team could have reacted in a better and more prompt way to the official accusations. We have not ever received an official apology for JokerDF actions. Which basically means they agreed with the ruling but either think he did the right thing or is not guilty but this was a set-up by the third party.

I personally would be very eager to listen to what JokerDF has to say in his defence by himslef.

@Emp: What is that you are planning? Or is it a surprize to us as well?

 

[Matrix]

Akots, it's already hard enough to realize there was a spy and to have to pay 18gpt for something you didn't do. Ah well, they were passive about the amount of knowledge JokerDF had. But if I were at C3B, I'd hardly like to continue at all, let alone having to apologize to CFC.
In short: don't let them apologize for something they didn't do.

About FP: I really think a FP will pay itself off. It's an investment - I don't think this game will end soon, and the longer the game will last, the more profit we gain from a FP.

 

[Provolution]

In the assault plan I made for Rio, I kept Fanatazuma and TF open to other builds, including Forbidden Palace, a deep strike does not mean we will stop building FP.