Unable to make good use of the expansionistic trait.

[morchuflex]

Hello.

Playing on pangea, standard map, C3C, emperor level, I thought I'd try an expansionistic civ. To make the best of this trait, I decided to go for a risky gambit: build two additional scouts before anything else, in hope of gaining an extra settler, and a tech lead through goody huts and quick contact with everyone else.
So far, three attempts, three failures. I could never get more than 5 huts, while I generally get 1 or 2 when playing a non-expansionistic tribe. And all I got from huts were "25 bucks" and those almost useless natives' maps, plus an occasionnal low-level tech. Certainly not worth a whole civ trait!
I did get ahead in tech each time, thanks to early contacts, and quickly knowing the whole map is great. But I irremediably (does this word exist?) fell behind in landgrab.
Maybe this strategy is only fit for larger maps?

 

[IbnSina]

Yeah, the expansionist trait is so dependent on luck that it is usually frustrating. I usually build only one scout. Getting 25 gold or useless maps too often means the expansionist trait is mostly wasted. It certainly helps to have a large or huge map for this trait - techs are worth more. On small or tiny maps then you -must- get a settler. I think the most important thing to do is to make sure you have made the required sacrifices to the RNG gods before you start.

 

[Abaddon]

I think the most important thing to do is to make sure you have made the required sacrifices to the RNG gods before you start.

What 50 virgins?!?

 

[Durkz]

i dont like expansionist trait. it's the worst trait to have specialy on higher levels when your chances to get a setteler & techs are smaller then on lower dificulty

 

[Tomoyo]

Another thing about the expansionist trait is that you can build a really really early granary. (like right away)

 

[morchuflex]

Another thing about the expansionist trait is that you can build a really really early granary. (like right away)

Yes, but if I build the granary ASAP, I delay building scouts, and then the AI gets most goody huts.
Well, I'm on my fourth attempt now, and I did get an extra settler on turn 20 or so. It sometimes works after all!
But if I had picked an industrious civ instead, the extra work from my first worker might very well have been just as useful...

 

[IbnSina]

Another thing about the expansionist trait is that you can build a really really early granary. (like right away)

Oops - that's a very good reminder - I play a mod...

 

[DBear]

What are you complaining about? You coulda popped angry barbarians.

 

[predesad]

After the goody huts are gone and the map is explored, there is still a god use for the expansionist trait (scouts) although it should be considered an exploit.

Assuming REX phase is not over, place scouts by neighbor to lookout for settlers. Using 3-4 scouts spaced apart you can see in several directions. When a settler starts coming in your direction, move your scouts in front of it. Keep your scouts so that the settler can never move towards your territory thus preventing expansion in your direction. The settler and escort will walk back and forth trying to get around your scouts. After awhile you should add an additional unit or two because the AI will try to send a second settler or other unit to get around your wall of units and you wont be able to block off all tiles.

The second thing is to declare war and use your scouts as bait for the AI. Move them out between your cities and theirs. Their units, instead of attacking your cities, will chase your scouts. While you move your SoD in and take all their cities they will continue to try to corner your scouts. It can be humorous watching the great pains the AI will go through trying to kill your scouts.

Alternatively, in war your scouts can be paired with some defensive units who go through the AI territory pillaging along the way, can be easily used to completely disconnect the capitol and prevent trade (unless capitol is coastal with harbor, but still no trade to its own cities) and then disconnect all resources from every city. The same thing can be done with other uinits, but it is faster to use scouts and your other units can concentrate on attacks.

 

[Tomoyo]

What are you complaining about? You coulda popped angry barbarians.

No, he couldn't have. Look at the title.

 

[CrackedCrystal]

What 50 virgins?!?

I think I have a few of those in storage.

 

[sadu]

Expansionist certainly doesn't do it for me. While it's nice not having to worry about popping angry barbs from goody huts, expansionist is pretty well useless by the end of the ancient era. It's at this time that Scientific and commercial are starting to pay dividends that will last the rest of the game.

The biggest use of expansionist though is the early contacts and map knowledge, in my opinion this is more valuable than the goody huts. Knowing where all the luxiries are on the map before the AI does gives you the headstart you need to get your settlers installed and roads laid. The difference between having 2 lux and 4 lux in the middle ages can make or break the game.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

i dont like expansionist trait. it's the worst trait to have specialy on higher levels when your chances to get a setteler & techs are smaller then on lower dificulty

That's not entirely correct. Chances for a Settler are highest at Demigod.
The reason is simply that you're more likely to get that when the AI Civs have more cities.

Getting the most out of EXP...
Can't tell exactly why, but I do quite well with those.
You start with Pottery, so you don't have to research a tech ASAP early. That means, you can either start a min run on a second-tier tech (Writing/Hittites+Portugal, IW/Russia, Myst/Arabs), while hoping for the cheaper techs; or you always research the cheapest tech full speed, and get the more expensive ones from huts.

IMHO the EXP Civs all require a very 'focused' AA.
EXP is a dominant early trait, like AGR or SEA. But while you won't play Byz/England/Cart different, all EXP Civs require a special strategy.

Mongols/Zulus: Locate your neighbor. Get Archers.
America: Locate the really good city spots for your core. Build roads to get your Settlers there fast.
Inca: Locate the fresh water. Same as US; you'll need more time to travel, but the Settlers complete faster.
Arabs: For me, the best Civ for land-locked 20k. Head for Myst, and build the Oracle. Almost impossible with other Civs above Monarch; here it works, since you can skip the Settler...
Hittites: Get Monarchy and Horses ASAP. Get up a decent force of 3MC (those are useful units, but too expensive to build in Despo) - you don't want a despotic GA. Starting with Alpha allows for good trades, so Monarchy isn't that far away.

Russia: Dunno. I like them, but they're more about the Middle Ages. Just try to get there ASAP. There are numerous strategies about triple slingshot during era advance when popping enough huts, but those won't ever work in a regular game.
Portugal: I have no clue how to benefit from their odd combo

One more point: If you pop 5 huts, and get a single tech, a lousy Warrior and 75gp, don't worry - consider those 5 huts could as well meant 5 techs for the AI.

 

[punkbass2000]

Yeah, Exp is not great, but it's not that bad. I would put it above Mil and REl, anyway. Definitely below Agr, Com and Sea, though. It's generally lower than the remaining two, except on bigger, Pangaea maps. I normally build one scout right off the bat with Exp. Starting with Pottery is nice, too, though Agr. civs start with it as well, and you're likely to meet Exp civs early anyway and Pottery is not expensive to trade for.

 

[Tearor]

i use only civs without the expansionist trait since it seems to slow me down. i choose a industrial civ since it allows me to build u quickly.

 

[Seriphyn]

Expansionist only good for the very beginning of the game. Once the goody huts have been taken, thats about it. A BIG waste of an entire trait when you can have others like scientific or commercial etc.

Expansionist would have been MUCH better if settlers cost 1 population instead of 2.

 

[rajwhitehall]

I've heard "blocking" strategy before but frankly in the early game who has units to waste blocking AI movements? I sure don't! It sounds far better to build your own settler & escort instead of 3 scouts and send them off to open areas (at the REX stage of the game by definition there is plenty of open space left). Even a single open square is all you need. When the AI settles near you (as it will), just let their isolated city grow to size 2 or 3, then conquer it. Problem solved.

After the goody huts are gone and the map is explored, there is still a god use for the expansionist trait (scouts) although it should be considered an exploit.

Assuming REX phase is not over, place scouts by neighbor to lookout for settlers. Using 3-4 scouts spaced apart you can see in several directions. When a settler starts coming in your direction, move your scouts in front of it. Keep your scouts so that the settler can never move towards your territory thus preventing expansion in your direction. The settler and escort will walk back and forth trying to get around your scouts. After awhile you should add an additional unit or two because the AI will try to send a second settler or other unit to get around your wall of units and you wont be able to block off all tiles.

The second thing is to declare war and use your scouts as bait for the AI. Move them out between your cities and theirs. Their units, instead of attacking your cities, will chase your scouts. While you move your SoD in and take all their cities they will continue to try to corner your scouts. It can be humorous watching the great pains the AI will go through trying to kill your scouts.

Alternatively, in war your scouts can be paired with some defensive units who go through the AI territory pillaging along the way, can be easily used to completely disconnect the capitol and prevent trade (unless capitol is coastal with harbor, but still no trade to its own cities) and then disconnect all resources from every city. The same thing can be done with other uinits, but it is faster to use scouts and your other units can concentrate on attacks.

 

[rajwhitehall]

I'm not an avanced player but this is what I've found. Basically expansionist trait should be used if you plan on an early conuest game, and it works best with easier barbarian settings.

If your barbarian setting is low, then expansionist civs take a huge early tech lead. If there is an AI expansionist civ, then because of tech trading among the AIs, all the civs are going to be several techs ahead of you by the mid ancient age. Thus you will be playing catch-up. But if you take an expansionst civ yourself, you can stay equal to the AIs even if they refuse to trade with you. If you are the ONLY expansionist civ, then you will take a big early tech lead and you can either use that to trade for money/turn thus hamstringing AI growth, or simply keep the early techs to yourself and you'll be building knights when the AI are still in the ancient age, and you should plan on a conquest victory before the AI catches up with you.

However this strategy seems to all fall apart as the barbarian activity is higher, since the chance of finding techs gets lower, and your scouts are pretty useless. Thus the expanionist trait, which is only helpful in the ancient age, is entirely useless.

Expansionist only good for the very beginning of the game. Once the goody huts have been taken, thats about it. A BIG waste of an entire trait when you can have others like scientific or commercial etc.

Expansionist would have been MUCH better if settlers cost 1 population instead of 2.