Units consume population when produced?

[padlock]

I hadn't heard this mentioned before, but a quote from Dennis Shirk in a recent gameshark interview seems to imply that's the case.

Here's the quote:

"First off, your armies are not going to be as large as they were before. Ever. Armies are expensive to maintain. They have a hit on your population. They have a hit on your economy. "

Does anyone know more about this? Am I just misinterpreting his comment?

The whole interview can be read here:

http://www.gameshark.com/features/740/Civilization-5-Interview-with-Producer-Dennis-Shirk.htm

 

[wapamingo]

Hope this is not the case, as every population represent ever increasing number of people (exponential I think); so 1 pop hit means different things at different size of city and I do not see this reflected in unit stats - so I think he got it wrong -- I hope.

 

[padlock]

You're right. It really wouldn't make much sense. Perhaps he means that while building military units , excess food is converted into production (the same way building workers or settlers works in Civ 4).

 

[KrikkitTwo]

1 pop is the same in terms of Productivity at every level of city size, so I could see it working.

 

[nomooon]

hopefully the penalty wont be too large because except for the European Feudal Age where army size was castrated, other ages had plenty of huge armies duking it out.

 

[treadwin]

I think this is realistic particularly in the ancient era. There are many examples of famine because there were not enough men to bring in the harvest due to wars.

In the modern era, baseball and other sprorts stopped during WW2 due to a manpower shortage, presumably leading to unhappiness.

If they can allow units to disband and re-increase population, and thereby avoid an artificial war-weariness effect, then that would be a plus from my point of view.

 

[Tomice]

It's all balancing. You'd have to increase population growth and it'd be fine.

The only issue is that it would prevent specialisation of cities. You'd have to build units in a majority of your cities to prevent emptying the production cities.

 

[StStutter]

It's all balancing. You'd have to increase population growth and it'd be fine.

The only issue is that it would prevent specialisation of cities. You'd have to build units in a majority of your cities to prevent emptying the production cities.

This and since they seem to be leaning to increasing the importance of specialization, I have some doubts that this will be the case

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Also they talk about Maintenance, not production.

I suspect military units may cause unhappiness (limiting population)

 

[Szpilman]

Also they talk about Maintenance, not production.

I suspect military units may cause unhappiness (limiting population)

Exactly. When they say "they have a hit on your pop.", they could well be meaning happiness. But I'd actually like to see amassing armies reducing population. Only time will tell.

 

[generalwar]

"First off, your armies are not going to be as large as they were before. Ever. Armies are expensive to maintain. They have a hit on your population. They have a hit on your economy. "



http://www.gameshark.com/features/740/Civilization-5-Interview-with-Producer-Dennis-Shirk.htm

This has some sense, because, when you're making a army in the real world, you have to make soldiers from citiziens, right?

 

[Hail]

Exactly. When they say "they have a hit on your pop.", they could well be meaning happiness. But I'd actually like to see amassing armies reducing population. Only time will tell.

emphasis is mine. i concur! that would be awesome
however i also think Dennis Shirk meant a happiness hit

That could only work if the cost of food required to grow the pop of a city is constant, which it has not been in previous Civs. Otherwise you have the bizarre situation where a small city can overcome the problems of building units faster than a larger city; which is both absurd and terrible for game play.

if the cost of food required to grow the pop of a city is constant, that would be bizarre, but food cities can grow really fast, so it's not that big of a problem...

 

[kiwitt]

You're right. It really wouldn't make much sense. Perhaps he means that while building military units , excess food is converted into production (the same way building workers or settlers works in Civ 4).

I did this in my mod. If you are building land units (representing divisions, etc.) food is consumed and city does not grow.

 

[12agnar0k]

Despite the fact for the life of me I can't find the quote in that article, I have got nothing to explain why units would affect population, or happiness for that matter. The only thing I've seen is that "population might limit the number of troops you can build or number of cheaply maintained units possibly", but nothing that would have your army affecting your population.

Heres the only thing I have seen that might show some sort of Army/Population relationship.

Perhaps if you go over the 29 supply in this case, something happens to your population count... though that would be counter productive as say decreasing population by 1 for hitting 30 units would just turn unit supply down to 28. So maybe going over this supply limit just increases unit maintenance or possibly it will incur unhappiness won't know till someone goes over it, thats if you can go over it, it might simply be a physical limit to the number of units you can support and you won't be able to build anymore after reaching that point... though having increased maintanence instead increases flexibility.

 

[Perfection]

Maybe the impact is on population growth rate, (guys eat food)?

 

[Polobo]

It is quite likely that it was a simple mis-speak to say it affects "population" as opposed to simply the economy.

 

[ShaqFu]

Nice find with the screenshot, as it lends credence to the idea of smaller militaries, although I'm very curious as to what constitutes "supply."

 

[Calouste]

Despite the fact for the life of me I can't find the quote in that article, I have got nothing to explain why units would affect population, or happiness for that matter. The only thing I've seen is that "population might limit the number of troops you can build or number of cheaply maintained units possibly", but nothing that would have your army affecting your population.

Heres the only thing I have seen that might show some sort of Army/Population relationship.



Perhaps if you go over the 29 supply in this case, something happens to your population count... though that would be counter productive as say decreasing population by 1 for hitting 30 units would just turn unit supply down to 28. So maybe going over this supply limit just increases unit maintenance or possibly it will incur unhappiness won't know till someone goes over it, thats if you can go over it, it might simply be a physical limit to the number of units you can support and you won't be able to build anymore after reaching that point... though having increased maintanence instead increases flexibility.

A limit tied to the population would make some sense as a country only has a limited number of young, able-bodied men it can send to the meatgrinder. If you go over that limit you could make it so that you can no longer build new units and existing units no longer heal. On the other hand, what does that make units gifted by City States or converted from Barbarians? Would supply rules not apply to them?

Must say I quite like the idea of having units not heal or heal slower if you go over your supply cap. Far better than limiting it via maintenance costs, which is basically meaningless if you go for all out war.

 

[12agnar0k]

"Supply"

Thats the area of variance I noted upon, it could mean several things, if I was too guess which I have been told I shouldn't do but not in so many words, I would go with "Unit Limit" i.e your civ wouldn't be able to "supply" over 29 Units, so you either can't go over that or take a penalty if you do.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I'd prefer it to work like Civ4 settlers & workers. Building them causes your population growth to stop. This should only apply to units which *don't* require any additional resources IMHO!

Aussie.