Units Disscusion

Nah hes just murdering children. I don't think that makes it any better. I don't know why I made that unit.

Spoiler :

I have no idea what I was thinking.

Spoiler :

Republic of Dave is pretty awesome though

 

It'll be good when it comes time to make the New Reno and New Vegas Factions troops.

If you are making children does that mean we have to do the kid faction from F3?

 

You mean the worst faction in the whole game? Not unless we have to.

I made the child army as a UU for the Republic of Dave. Ready to fight to the death for President Daddy.

 

haha.

You know originally, apparently, there was to be a group in one of the games that were hyper intelligent badgers and other animals, but it was replaced by death claws.

 

What. I'm already glad that its canon that the enclave wiped out the intelligent deathclaws. I can't even imagine that though. Just, why.

 

I am still converting units.



It'd be a nice alternative to the spider, since there are no spiders in fallout. And that thing scares me.

 

yeah that is a cool replacement.

I wonder if it would be best as three little ones in a unit rather than 1 big one...

nice job.

Some one new has expressed an interest in getting involved, so we may hopefully see him around the forums soon.

I still look forward to the day when we can find something good to make a gecko with, so that all of the gecko resources can get their own spawning lairs!

I also still need to get into the source code and rebuild it to get rid of a bit of code that 'auto-destroys' spawn points when you move into the tile. I want them to become pillagable (for a big food boost), as well as opening up the option to have extra food from a lair, so you can choose to keep it over time for a food boost, before finally removing it and adding a hunting camp for more food.

Are you set up to compile source code clanky? I think I remember you doing some stuff on your own mods in the source..

I just can't remember all the things I need to do to set it up and I don't have the energy at the moment to go through the tutorial process.

If you are willing I could show you the lines that need removing (Once I find it again!) and then we could get at least one of my 'hack fix' jobs done until someone more cleverer comes around again.

From what I remember it is just one block of code that needs removing, that will stop lairs being treated like goody huts (destroyed on tile entry) which should return them to being normal improvements (Pillagable) This will also then allow us to make other spawning improvements, that can be built. Then we just need to wait until we can get the 'spawn with civic' tag fixed, so that we can set certain improvements to make certain units only under certain civics.

 

Its just used over the spider's unitdef. giant ants are pretty big. And scary, not as scary as spiders but still grayditch.

Sounds neat. Be nice to have some fresh input on what makes mr house awesome.

I could just convert a gecko straight up from new vegas now that I got it. Hopefully it won't take as long as the ant, I remember saying I'd do something about it like 2, 3 years ago Of course there really aren't any good skeletons to rig it onto that i know of.

Hmm, last time I remember messing with the SDK was when I was modding RFC. And Then RFC: DoC, which has a completely different makefile.

I'd need the SDK files your using, I'm pretty sure the version of FTTW that I have is old, and an exact instructional of what you want done. Or just edit C++ files send them to me and I'll see if I can compile them.

 

yeah, you can get the latest version of the source files from our source forge, I think the link is somewhere around here... if not I need to fix that.. anyway.. not important.

I will send you the latest version, and I can edit out the change myself and then see if your setup can compile it.

We can do that at some point.

It has been so long since I set up compiling, that I cannot remember any of the process or rules you have to follow to set it up, I just don't have the brain energy for it!

Anyway.

With the gecko we have gone back over it a few times, at one point we tried doing spore creations and all sorts!

I wonder if something like a lizardman could work for bones. I am sure there have been mods with those..I had a look but couldn't find theo nes I was thinking of...nevermind, we keep dreaming!

As for the ant, it is a simple xml fix to make multiple small ones, I was just thinking out loud. in F2 they were about the size of a dog and came up to about the knee or shin of a human.

 

The makefile you included with the project didn't like me. I shifted the paths but it was a bit uncooperative. That is Visual C++ refused to compile it. I plugged in my standard makefile and it appears to have compiled. However I have NO idea if it'll work since the makefile you included seemed to be fairly heavily tailored by Nightinggale.

So make a Backup of your functional DLL before testing this one.

 

Ok, I will check it out.

Yeah night made a more advanced makefile, my brain is too knackered at the minute to remember the ins and outs of it.. and how they effect the ins and outs of everything else!

Fingers crossed the world won't explode!

Ok well it seems to have half worked... the dens no longer auto destroy when you move over them (like a goody hut would) but when I pillage it I get none of the pillage reward...so I am just confused by that part of the equation...

 

Good to hear I mean it mostly worked anyway.

 

Yeah, it did what I thought it would do (which is always a surprise for me!) it just didn't do what it would normally be expected to do, so I wonder if there is another bit of code somewhere stopping it from providing pillage income.. maybe because it belongs to barbs or something.

Another thing I want to check is to see if it can increase the tile yields, so a den provides a small amount of food. See if that part works.

 

The den is an improvement? tile ownership should be irrelevant in pillaging, unless this is somehow changed in the DLL. Well considering what we literally just did.. It probably is.

 

Yes, the den is an improvement, at least technically, it is stored in the improvement xml.

Obviously nobody builds them, they are placed as part of the map generation.

but yes, I thought the same which is why I was surprised and confused to find that it did not provide pillage income like all the others... I suppose I should check that normal things can still be pillaged, to make sure we haven't REALLY broken something!

 

All the various unit nifs I've been working on integrated into the XML files you sent me. I have not actually tested this because integrating the XML crashed my game.

 

Nice one, I will have a look through and see all of the nice new goodies!

Yeah you probably need the latest version of the game from moddb, plus the latest patch.
(Which all this stuff will be going into).

What are your tohughts about the unit roster revisions?

The whole thing needs going over, not least of all for the eventual uniqueness of each faction.

 

In general just the myriad of units simply confuses me. The main early sections we have are melee(phased out when you research energy/plasma weapons?), ranged, and slaver.

We have a bit of overflow in certain sections. That is a few units that could probably be merged together or phased out at some point. i.e. Militia's and other "town guard" type units could eventually upgrade into the soldier branch.

It might be worth considering omitting the "city capture" variant of units. Possibly replace it with a coding that checks if the player has a certain technology. So we don't have units which are incapable of taking a city despite having the technology.

There are also the various units scattered around whose only real difference between itself and another similar unit is it's name or weapon.

Just a few things to consider.

 

Ok, so there are a few more concepts than that to get your head around. (there is also some work to make sure it is all working as it should and stat balancing.)

Essentially there are mutiple kinds of units, each with strengths and weaknesses.

For example three category types of unit:
Security
Operatives
Military

These function in a paper rock scissors balance system each one gets a bonus against the one below it and a negative from the one above it.

Operatives are almost always invisible except against Security. They will also get withdraw chance probably for hit and run attacks.
Security can see Operatives, they will usually get a bonus to city defence.
Military are just generally stronger and will be the conqueror units.

We then also have different Combat types:
Melee
Ranged
Armour
Etc.

Melee never gets phased out (Just like in Fallout you can go melee all the way to the end). They generally have the highest strength for their class/era units.
Ranged are not as strong as Melee, but they can do ranged attacks with no risk to themselves, range attacks usually cannot kill out right.
(Unless you have promos or a specialist unit like Snipers. The promos may not be functional at the moment, I don't know if dotter ever added them, or if they got lost in the rebuild by archid as he did not port over all of the TLO tags I think...)
Armour is generally better than everything, as it is much tougher.
Siege can bombard cities. (RPG, Mortar, etc.)
Then you have some specialised weapons that work best in certain situations.
EMP(Anti-Robot), Laser (anti-armour except metal armour units), Plasma (anti-armour), Machine/Miniguns (Multiple unit stack damages), Sniper(long range kill shots, vulnerable to melee attacks), Vertibirds (fast, strong versus melee, vulnerable to anti air) and so on.

Different Armours and Vehicles give different benefits (Just like Fallout).

You have the units like slavers that can capture slaves from combat if in a stack and with a slavery type civic active.

So these units then string out in chains.
A Military Chain going through different weapons, armours, vehicles
Security/City Defense Chains
Ops Chain
As well as the various specialised weapons chains like sniper and siege.

Also the more advanced a unit is the harder it will be to build (requiring a higher total pop. in a city) so if you made an entirely vertibird or power armour army, you may find yourself out numbered and out gunned by a horde of axe and rifle wielding maniacs!

As for the city capture, every unit that is supposed to be able (specialist units like snipers shouldn't for example) will have an upgrade unit for it, so as long as you have the cash you can upgrade them to city capture versions.

Eventually these will have better names and a strength increase and a graphic multiplier, essentially representing something of a shift from a single person/small squad to a large squad/small battalion representing an increse in manpower needed to take and hold a town.

We also have access to race types as well now that can have +/- against each other and specific units. So Robot, Human. Mutant, Etc.

Eventually all this stuff will be properly fleshed out and pediaed, it is just one of the many jobs that needs doing Fully!

 

What of allowing all the units to destroy cities? I get your thing about not wanting to let people take over cities until later but it doesn't really seem like the same logistical shortcoming would stop them from simply destroying the city and pushing the enemy back.