Units that you almost never build

I think Im too much of a warmonger :P My diffculty is set in such a way that i can have intresting wars during thhe classical/medieval times without it being impossible, during the renaissance i have so much land that the ai cant keep up with my techrate and I end up having battles with rifleman + cannons against longbowmen (this is around 1500).

If I turn up the difficulty to emperor im unable to play the game as I like it during the earlier ages...


O and im using a very old patch so that might be the reason why they dont build aircraft.

I never said pikemen were useless either :P I just dont build them since I skip engineering to win the liberalism race.
 
Gotcha. I only said that because I'm able to make use of every one of those units, well except the ironclad...
 
Because in Civ 2 we learned how overpowered guided missiles were if they actually functionned as they do in real life. You can't mass missiles in the real world because they are too expensive. Thats why even though they beat the crap out of anything, it's not a valid strat. In Civ you can just keep building them so thats why they got nerfed.

Well then perhaps nerf it in the correct way, and increase the cost accordingly. A weapon which can destroy every unit on a tile would be very interesting, of course would have to have a high cost to prevent them from being mass built, but the ability to make just the 1, and then be able to use it in the most effective way... adds a lot to the game.
 
I like that idea miked1991 but there has to be a cap of like 6 units. You can't honestly believe that a guided missile would be able to take out an entire SoD, because that's beyond unrealistic. I don't know what square mileage 1 tile is supposed to represent, but it's more than 1 guided missile would be able to obliterate ;)
 
Cant you use galleons to carry those spys and regular subs to harass them? Isnt that cheaper, yet more versatile? Ah well... I guess everyone has its own tactics.

Galleons have 3 movement points vs. the sub's 5. That's a huge difference on a huge map.

Also:
Galleons are visible and therefore cannot go into a civ's territory that I am enemies with (no open borders). Also, if I'm carting a spy over to a civ i'm at war with to incite a revolt instead of wasting turns bombarding, I don't have to worry about frigates killing it off.
 
Galleons have 3 movement points vs. the sub's 5. That's a huge difference on a huge map.

Also:
Galleons are visible and therefore cannot go into a civ's territory that I am enemies with (no open borders). Also, if I'm carting a spy over to a civ i'm at war with to incite a revolt instead of wasting turns bombarding, I don't have to worry about frigates killing it off.

Good points, to be honest ive always completely ignored the attack subs ability to carry spies.. I thought their only advantage was the 50% bonus against regular subs. Maybe this might be one of the units ill use more often.
 
Attack subs also have a natural 50% withdrawal chance. A stack of 3-4 Flanking II attack subs (80% withdrawal) cruising off the enemy coast is deadly, not only to subs, but battleships and destroyers, as well. I'll usually have several such stacks roaming around, and a medical base somewhere out of the enemy's line of sight to tend to them.
 
Hmm they seem to give you control over the seas, but why would you need that? When fighting a landbased war you wont need any amphibious assaults but when the enemy is on another continent you will most likely have your transports filled with troops right next to opponents shores so your soldiers can land there in one turn.
If your initial amphibious army turns out to be too weak, you sign peace for a few turns and bring a new army, control over the seas is way overrated.

Sure you might be able to save a few fishingboats but you would probably be better of building new fishing boats instead of spending all those hammers to control the seas.

Bombarding a city a coastal city with ships is nice, but a additional bomber or a extra cannon/artillery unit will give you the same thing without having to worry about the seas.

Really privateers, transports and galleons (and maybe attack subs for the no open border spys thing) seem like the only really usefull ships out there, the rest is just for control, control you dont need.
 
Control of the seas is only overrated if you are far ahead in tech and power. If there is an AI that has a high power rating and decent tech parity, they might have invasion forces of their own. I'm not constantly the highest in power/tech in my games as I'm still mulling my way through Noble and so sometimes having sea going dominance is important to keeping a stronger, aggressive, and Furious opponent at bay.
 
I don't build Explorers, and hardly ever Anti-tank or SAM Infantry -

I like airships, 12 in a kill-zone arc of 3 cities will really FUBAR an AI SoD as it comes in, letting your Curassier/Cavalry permanently make their day right after. When you get flight, instant Fighter Force, at minimal cost!

Triremes are essential since 3.17, Barb Galleys are everywhere!
 
Hmm they seem to give you control over the seas, but why would you need that? When fighting a landbased war you wont need any amphibious assaults but when the enemy is on another continent you will most likely have your transports filled with troops right next to opponents shores so your soldiers can land there in one turn.
If your initial amphibious army turns out to be too weak, you sign peace for a few turns and bring a new army, control over the seas is way overrated.

Sure you might be able to save a few fishingboats but you would probably be better of building new fishing boats instead of spending all those hammers to control the seas.

Bombarding a city a coastal city with ships is nice, but a additional bomber or a extra cannon/artillery unit will give you the same thing without having to worry about the seas.

Really privateers, transports and galleons (and maybe attack subs for the no open border spys thing) seem like the only really usefull ships out there, the rest is just for control, control you dont need.
1. Escorting troops to that other continent after the initial landing/amphibious attack. Typically, my marines keep plundering the enemy coast even after the armor is pushing inland, and both columns will get reinforced until the war is in its winding down stage.

2. Heading off enemy amphibious invasions. The AI will not send unescorted transports at you. If I'm at war with an AI on another continent, I can wage that war very cheaply by just sending over a few attack subs and picking off his escorts as soon as they leave a port. I'll catch several of them alone on their way to the invasion launching point, and if they ever do get a stack together and out of the port, I can worry it to death with the subs over 2-3 turns, until it's no longer any threat.

3. Allowing myself to keep working sea tiles, taking advantage of seafood and garnering intercontinental trade routes, while depriving my enemy the same. This one's self-explanatory. Control the sea, and you can exploit the sea. Allow the enemy that control and you're at his mercy in that respect. The importance of this depends on how heavily you rely on sea tiles, obviously.

4. Hammer advantage. The AI wants to control the sea or break your control of it. The AI will, therefore, spend hammers toward that end. With a little forethought, you can spend fewer hammers in order to make sure he keeps spending hammers on a navy, and make sure that said navy never achieves that goal. This either increases your production advantage or decreases the AI's, depending on the situation. Either way, the end result is that you have relatively more hammers compared to the AI than if you had not exerted control over the sea.
 
Tactical Nuke - I'd much rather build ICBMs. :nuke:

Most Naval Units - I usually don't build too many naval units, only if I plan to invade someone on a distant continent, I'll usually build Transports/Galleons and have 1 or 2 Battleships/Ship of the Lines to guard them on the way, and surprise attack my target. I find even less use for them once flight is available, then I just airlift powerful units into the occupied cities.
 
@emperor giulio: That sounds difficult to stave off ocean based invasions. Do you usually have such a tech lead that an ocean invasion isn't a worry or is it that you are usually friendly with most AI, or maybe you're just too powerful so no other civs will ever declare war? Even when I used to play on Warlord level the AI had some decent naval units that would pillage my coastline and even a decent invasion force once in a while.
 
Well, I do the same thing as giulio, its hard to spot incomming fleets anyways unless you have a enormous fleet or the will to keep using recon with airships or something similar. When you see a enemy fleet near your cultural borders its very easy to quickly move some troops around and maybe draft/whip/buy yourself some more defenders. Unless your really far behind on techs your defenders should easily be able to kill a dozen of troops who are suffering from the amphibious attack modifier (unless they land first, but then you have more time to get a defensive army).

It could also be much easier to destroy those invasion armys if your playing on normal (like i am) instead of marathon, its pretty easy to get 5-6 rifleman trained
in 2 turns without drafting (the time you usually have after spotting the enemy). And well you should have had some defenders before they came anyways.



1. Escorting troops to that other continent after the initial landing/amphibious attack. Typically, my marines keep plundering the enemy coast even after the armor is pushing inland, and both columns will get reinforced until the war is in its winding down stage.

2. Heading off enemy amphibious invasions. The AI will not send unescorted transports at you. If I'm at war with an AI on another continent, I can wage that war very cheaply by just sending over a few attack subs and picking off his escorts as soon as they leave a port. I'll catch several of them alone on their way to the invasion launching point, and if they ever do get a stack together and out of the port, I can worry it to death with the subs over 2-3 turns, until it's no longer any threat.

3. Allowing myself to keep working sea tiles, taking advantage of seafood and garnering intercontinental trade routes, while depriving my enemy the same. This one's self-explanatory. Control the sea, and you can exploit the sea. Allow the enemy that control and you're at his mercy in that respect. The importance of this depends on how heavily you rely on sea tiles, obviously.

4. Hammer advantage. The AI wants to control the sea or break your control of it. The AI will, therefore, spend hammers toward that end. With a little forethought, you can spend fewer hammers in order to make sure he keeps spending hammers on a navy, and make sure that said navy never achieves that goal. This either increases your production advantage or decreases the AI's, depending on the situation. Either way, the end result is that you have relatively more hammers compared to the AI than if you had not exerted control over the sea.

Hmm you have some good points there but im not convinced yet, I dont use 1 since ill be attacking with 2 stacks and the enemy will be conquered before my fleets have the ability to sail back and forth (with a reasonable distance ofcourse). I explained 2 before in this post.


3. : Wars are usually blitz wars in civ (well they are for me) and destroying work boats during wartime will give you only a very minimal bonus during wartime (their citys will grow less or they switch tiles and lose a few hammers to maintain the same growth).
Youll have to rebuild those workboats once the land is conquered though, so destroying boats will cost you hammers in three ways, once for the boats youve sacrificed to gain control, once for boats you have to remain control and to actually destroy the workboats and once for rebuilding the boats. Its simply not worth it for me.
Having control does make sure your own workboats are secure, but at what cost? You spend hammers to get and remain control while youll only have to rebuild 3-10 workboats which doesnt cost that much compared to those boats.

4.: When not at wartime you cant gain control over the seas unless you spam privateers (which is bad since they cost too much and die too easily for that). So youll have to destroy the enemys fleet when the war starts. Lets assume you succeed in that. The enemy civ will now build some ships in his coastal cities, not all of them since hes under attack at land aswell and he has most likely lost a good amount of defenders. So lets say he builds 5 ships which could have been rifleman. The only difference you really made during wartime is that you have to face 5 rifleman less, although thats usefull I think you could have spend the hammers for your ships in a better way, by building a few extra cannons for example.
If you completely ignore his fleets youll have a hammer advantage above the enemy aswell since he spent tons of hammers o getting a betetr fleet then you while you spend it on more usefull things, like a few new shiny cannons.


But maybe your fighting more longterm wars? In that case naval becomes a whole lot more attractive, point 4 starts to shine since your not talking about 4-5 boats he rebuild but over complete fleets of them. And destroying workboats is obviously more usefull during longterm wars.
 
@emperor giulio: That sounds difficult to stave off ocean based invasions. Do you usually have such a tech lead that an ocean invasion isn't a worry or is it that you are usually friendly with most AI, or maybe you're just too powerful so no other civs will ever declare war? Even when I used to play on Warlord level the AI had some decent naval units that would pillage my coastline and even a decent invasion force once in a while.

I usually focus attention to the continent I am based, in the event of an invasion of a belligerent civ, I make sure I have plenty of fast moving units like Knights/Cuirassiers/Cavalry to take out who ever lands. In the beginning of the game I usually like to conquer the closest civ next to mine. After I rush attack them with my praetorians, I am faced with a financial dilemma. To resolve this I beeline to Code of Laws so I can build Court houses to cut much of the maintainace cost. With Code of Laws I am usually the first to discover Confucianism and I make that my state religion. Another plus is the Chichen Itza, again I am usually the first to build this because I beeline to the tech, with this wonder I get the extra boost in defense. My the main pattern of my playing style is conquest – economic – defense - repeat.

It also helps to get the Statue of Zeus, so your enemies suffer 100% war weariness.
 
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