Upgrading units

[Sweetchuck]

Is there a shortcut to upgrade all of your units?

For example, if you have a gazillion riflemen - once you acquire rubber, do you have to upgrade each one separately (like I'm doing now - which takes a very long time and is hard on the fingers using a laptop mousepad) or can you upgrade them globally somehow?

 

[Aabraxan]

IIUC, you can hit Shift+U, but even that will only upgrade those units in cities with barracks.

 

[Sweetchuck]

IIUC, you can hit Shift+U, but even that will only upgrade those units in cities with barracks.

Excellent - thanks for the tip.

 

[thetrooper]

Be careful with 'shift + u' though as you may want to keep some obsolete elite units around for leader fishing.

 

[Aabraxan]

Excellent point, thetrooper. I have only used the "shift+u" on rare occasions and I may reserve it for artillery in the future.

 

[thetrooper]

I totally skip 'shift + u' for knights and swords.

Another thing is of course to move the elite units you want to keep out of your cities and then do the upgrade.

I'm not a big fan of keeping a great treasury (pre industrial age that is) so this is rarely a problem for me anyway.

 

[Aabraxan]

I only recently discovered shift+u. I think I'll either skip it altogether or only use it for artillery stuff. Checking for and moving elite units out for upgrade purposes sounds like more headache than just upgrading individually, which is what I usually do. (I never seem to have enough gold to upgrade lots of stuff all at once, anyway.)

In a recent game, I actually had an elite archer, an elite infantry, and 3 elite cavs mixed in with my tanks for the sole purpose of leader fishing, so I should have thought of the danger of losing them.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Be careful with 'shift + u' though as you may want to keep some obsolete elite units around for leader fishing.

Thanks - but that brings up another point.

I usually stock my army with a lot of cavalry at first then riflemen (which upgrade to infantry, then to mechanical infantry) and I think the infantry series is a prime base for any army.

I also look at the "value" of the army stock. Once infantry (and then the more mobile mechanical version) are around, the value of cavalry drops - except for mobility purposes. But to keep a base stock of units for mobility isn't value in my opinion.

Same for the navy - once destroyers and battleships are at the avail, ironclads become obsolite.

Assuming (and I might be wrong on this, let me know) the per unit cost is fixed for these units, doesn't it make sense to reduce your stock (or upgrade your stock)?

And, there's "trade-in" value to the extent that you could put your disbanding units on cities that are building new units and get the sheild credit for them.

As a note, I sometimes rush the production of harbors and airports on island cities and port the units (like cavalry) that I want to disband to these cities to get shield bonuses for building libraries and the like - to rush the populaton and city growth.

So, from that standpoint - I don't like to keep lesser units around and usually disband them to make better core units (so I wouldn't just upgrade some specific units and keep others of the same unit around, unless gold were an issue).

Does this make sense? Tell me if you disagree.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Aabraxan]

I think most of what you said about upgrading & reducing stock makes sense. Unit support costs are fixed, regardless of whether we're talking about horsemen or modern armor. In that sense, there's no sense in keeping the horses around if you've got modern armor, and even disbanding one unit in a town with a new build (e.g. zero shields invested) to reduce rush build costs.

However, the exception is elite units.

So, from that standpoint - I don't like to keep lesser units around and usually disband them to make better core units (so I wouldn't just upgrade some specific units and keep others of the same unit around, unless gold were an issue).

Even if gold is no issue, I'd keep the elites around, if for no other reason than leader fishing, which I believe is what thetrooper was getting at. Granted, I rarely have enough gold to upgrade all of a type of unit, but if I did, it's still worthwhile to avoid upgrading the elites. They're the only way you'll get MGLs.

 

[Sweetchuck]

I think most of what you said about upgrading & reducing stock makes sense. Unit support costs are fixed, regardless of whether we're talking about horsemen or modern armor. In that sense, there's no sense in keeping the horses around if you've got modern armor, and even disbanding one unit in a town with a new build (e.g. zero shields invested) to reduce rush build costs.

However, the exception is elite units.



Even if gold is no issue, I'd keep the elites around, if for no other reason than leader fishing, which I believe is what thetrooper was getting at. Granted, I rarely have enough gold to upgrade all of a type of unit, but if I did, it's still worthwhile to avoid upgrading the elites. They're the only way you'll get MGLs.

Yes - great point, I do the same.

If I get a few elite ironclads or cavalry - those are the ones I keep around and disband the veterans.

It doesn't hurt to keep some cavalry around especially if they're elite inasmuch as they are very mobile. Same for ironclads, they make good spacers or escort vessles (or protection vessles to get damaged destroyers back to port).

However, if I have a few elite riflemen or infantry - I usually upgrade them to the better unit. And at this point, I usually disband swordsmen and the lesser as long as I have a good stock of better core units.

I learned that the hard way. I amassed a huge army of cavalry waiting to descend on the stinking, evil Zulu (in the jungles, no less), but alas - they were heavily guarded with infantry and my descending troops of mobile cavalry were toasted.

It took me many turns to produce a capable army of infantry - but they weren't as mobile and it sunk a lot of my gold, resulting in an overthrow of my government by civally disordering citizens just at the time I was knocking out the Zulu's cities.

 

[Aabraxan]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think you can get MGLs with naval units, only land units.

Yes, veterans are candidates for upgrades or disbanding. But I'll keep just about any elite around.

Are you using artillery to weaken defenders?

 

[Sweetchuck]

I could be wrong here, but I don't think you can get MGLs with naval units, only land units.

Yes, veterans are candidates for upgrades or disbanding. But I'll keep just about any elite around.

Are you using artillery to weaken defenders?

Ok - I'm fairly new to the forum and I'm not completely up on my terminology - what's an MGL?

If that's a shield bonus for disbanding - yes, you get them for disbanding naval units in towns (harbor or no) for building other units or items (naval, defense or construction - but not wonders, I believe).

I don't build a lot of artilary unless I'm sharing a continent with other civs - which I usually try to avoid or achieve. My strategy is to let them come to me over water, having a pretty strong navy and bombers in key areas.

On the offensive, I use transports and the like to secure foriegn cities and establish "bases", fortified with mobile units and bombers for defense.

So, long answer I guess - I'm more into using air bombardment than stationary.

 

[Aabraxan]

Ok - I'm fairly new to the forum and I'm not completely up on my terminology - what's an MGL?

Military Great Leader -- If an elite unit is victorious in combat, there's some percentage chance that you'll get one. Someone who knows more than I will have to fill you in on what the odds are. You can then use them to build armies, which you would load with military units, or you can use them to rush construction, which is usually used for small wonders, like the Pentagon, or Heroic Epic. They cannot be used to rush Great Wonders, like the Pyramids or Sun Tzu's Art of War.

If that's a shield bonus for disbanding - yes, you get them for disbanding naval units in towns (harbor or no) for building other units or items (naval, defense or construction - but not wonders, I believe).

No, it's not. See above. You get some shields back for disbanding units, but you are correct in that shields from disbanded units cannot be used for wonders.

I don't build a lot of artilary unless I'm sharing a continent with other civs - which I usually try to avoid or achieve. My strategy is to let them come to me over water, having a pretty strong navy and bombers in key areas.

On the offensive, I use transports and the like to secure foriegn cities and establish "bases", fortified with mobile units and bombers for defense.

So, long answer I guess - I'm more into using air bombardment than stationary.

When I said "artillery," I was using the term very loosely, beginning with catapults. You've got to build a ton of them, but a stack of cats goes a long way towards raising your kill ratio and the AI's loss ratio. Bombers come pretty late, long after you could be using things like trebuchets and cannons to lower your losses. Once you hit "real" artillery (to which cannons upgrade), they go to a range of 2, so your 1-move units can sit outside of the range of their 1-move units and pound them.

Nothing wrong with air bombardment, especially because in C3C, bombers have lethal bombardment. Redline the AI with artillery, then bring in the bombers to kill off as many as you can. Then kill the rest with ground units.

You'll have to remember to protect your artillery, but even if you have to transport them overseas, they're good for pounding cities. They'll even kill off population and destroy improvements.


Edit: And if you have taken control of the seas, build some carriers and put some of your bombers there. Carriers don't flip and they don't get taken by the AI's cavalry.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Ok - MGL's, yes I did get those early on when I first started playing. I didn't know what they were for and just stuck them in my capital city for some goofy reason.

I haven't gotten one since figuring out what they are for, but I'm trying to get them now to build armies. I figured it out when playing Japan who had them, but I wasn't able to produce one since.

I usually don't go for a lot of carriers, but occasionally use them for the offensive or to protect an area out of range of city based bombers or traffic lanes that the AI likes to sail through.


Hey - thanks again for the great tips.

 

[Aabraxan]

Glad to help where I can. I'm hardly an expert on naval warfare, but I made decent use of some carriers loaded with fighters and bombers in a recent game. That lethal bombardment is a lot of fun. Nothing like entirely emptying a city of defenders and then just walking in.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Glad to help where I can. I'm hardly an expert on naval warfare, but I made decent use of some carriers loaded with fighters and bombers in a recent game. That lethal bombardment is a lot of fun. Nothing like entirely emptying a city of defenders and then just walking in.

Amen. It might not be a game winning strategy, but it's fun as hell.

One more quick question from a newbie, what do you mean when you stated the "carrier doesn't flip"?

 

[Aabraxan]

One more quick question from a newbie, what do you mean when you stated the "carrier doesn't flip"?

I was referring to culture flip. Cities can "flip" to another civilization -- IOW, they revolt and become part of the other civ. Any units inside the city at the time of the flip are lost. Carriers, on the other hand, can't flip to another civ. They might be destroyed, but they don't flip.

 

[Redrake]

You've got to build a ton of them, but a stack of cats goes a long way towards raising your kill ratio and the AI's loss ratio.

I fail to see how a bunch of cats going meow towards your enemy increase your kill ratio.

 

[Theryman]

I fail to see how a bunch of cats going meow towards your enemy increase your kill ratio.

Well redrake, a whole lot of people are very allergic to cats. 'Blind 'em with fur and kill 'em with claws' is my motto when using cats.

 

[Aceman101]

Someone who knows more than I will have to fill you in on what the odds are.

Correct me if i'm wrong but I believe the odds of an elite unit turning into a leader is 1\16. That is reduced to 1\12 after building the small wonder heroic epic .