Vague order to build stuff in? Phases of game?

[Rosicrucian]

Here is what I do, in almost all cities:

1) build a phalanx (or whatever is the current defensive unit)
2) build settlers until the continent and any adjacent ones are settled
3) build one more settler and put it on 'k' (auto)
4) temple, city walls, library, marketplace, blah blah blah, caravans, etc, wait until all cities are totally upgraded, then fight the final war.

How can you fight a war in the beginning or middle without getting far behind becuase you don't have many libraries/marketplaces/city walls/traderoutes/etc?

 

[starlifter]

How can you fight a war in the beginning or middle without getting far behind becuase you don't have many libraries/marketplaces/city walls/traderoutes/etc?

Assuming Deity (or Emperor), there are of course many different viable approaches for this, but often you'll find that you can develop a 'core' of cities that accomplish most of your science and economics, while using outlaying/newly conquered cities to fight the rolling war. If necessary, one may need to change governments to push hard and finish a tough enemy... sacrificing some economy in the short run. But this should be recouped by capturing cities, and growing.

It is a military truism, predating even the venerable ancient warrior Sun Tzu... concentration of forces. With a smaller army, concentrate and suprise, then capture, regroup and move to the next target. It takes longer, but you can divert most resources to caravans/improvements that way.

Personally, I don't build city walls very often... a marketplace or library is usually more useful. Ditto for the Great Wall... I'd rather have Copernicus or King Richard, for instance.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Rosicrucian:
3) build one more settler and put it on 'k' (auto)

Why on earth would you do this? Take the time to decide which terrain improvements you really need and where you want them and do it yourself. The AI is stupid. Don't trust it with your valuable settlers.

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DEATH awaits you all...with nasty, big, pointy teeth.

 

[Rosicrucian]

but then the game takes forever!!

 

[starlifter]

posted July 02, 2001 05:02 PM by Tim:
quote: Originally posted by Rosicrucian:

3) build one more settler and put it on 'k' (auto)

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Why on earth would you do this? Take the time to decide which terrain improvements you really need and where you want them and do it yourself. The AI is stupid. Don't trust it with your valuable settlers.

I agree with Tim, big time. The AI simply wastes much of the efforts of your setters in the 'K' mode. In fact, is is almost always downright scary to watch what it does

.

Maybe in late game, when your engineer count exceeds 1,000 or 1,200 on a large world, it's OK, be even then, Auto-Settlers are unsettling (pun?)...

Besides, I like to plan my own city locations. Auto-Settlers will found new cities in the dumest places...

 

[Brad]

QUOTE:Starlifter
Besides, I like to plan my own city locations. Auto-Settlers will found new cities in the dumest places...
Will they... I've never had them do that to me before... build a city that is... do they only do that on the high levels... past prince?

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Silence Fills the Nothingness......NERRRR!

Even though stuff happens that we don't plan, be a man... use you hand.

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[starlifter]

posted July 02, 2001 10:58 PM

QUOTE:Starlifter
Besides, I like to plan my own city locations. Auto-Settlers will found new cities in the dumest places...

Will they... I've never had them do that to me before... build a city that is... do they only do that on the high levels... past prince?

Honestly, GOTM 6 is the first Emperor game I've ever played, and that Prince in GOTM 5 is the only one of that level I recall ever playing. Beyond these GOTMs, I have no real experience with other levels. I'm being surprised by very minor differences at those levels, but I have not tested the K-function much. I tried the auto-irrigate trick, but I really dont even use that because that stupid settler/engineer often goes running off. And when he ran to a corner and founded a city once, I was hacked... and have never enabled the K-settler/engineer again. Often, my game is precariously balanced, and a few stupid irrigations or wasted roads on mountaintops could well spell a big delay, if not outright defeat. So even with 800 engineers or so... none get the K-function.

 

[Supernaut]

Originally posted by Rosicrucian:
but then the game takes forever!!

But that's the point!! Civ is a game that requires a major investmet of time - you do not play quick games of Civ if you want to explore its full potential. (OK, you can whiz through and conquer everyone with horses and catapults, but what's the point? There are much better wargames out there.) And a proper use of your settlers will probably speed up your Civ's development anyway, so you can have the final war much earlier.

 

[Rosicrucian]

What can you do with settlers that auto settle can not? It doesnt make cities for you in TOT. It roads, irrigates, mines

Also, do you all micromanage the food placement in your cities, like each turn or so, move the food to optimal locations?

 

[starlifter]

posted July 03, 2001 10:43 AM
What can you do with settlers that auto settle can not? It doesnt make cities for you in TOT. It roads, irrigates, mines

Also, do you all micromanage the food placement in your cities, like each turn or so, move the food to optimal locations?

I can make complex road/RR infrastructure. I can decide exactly which terrain is first prepared... for instance,I'd rather irrigate a grassland shield before irrigating plains. The AI/K seems to love irrigating plains and coming back for grassland shield later.

Also, I usually want a road before irrigation. The AI likes irrigating first, and sometimes actually leaves an irrigated square without making a road. This is a hunge waste for Settlers!

Normally, my citizens are plaed on a shield-priority system, with excess food taking the hit in larger cities. In new cities, I time everything as a matter of routine. For instance, rush-building a harbor or supermarket is based on the flow of food, particularly on size 1 or 2 cities.

As cities get ready to fill a foodbox and grow to 9 or 13, I will keep an eye out and make sure the Aquaduct or Sewer is finished just in time.

If you want "natural" size 42 or 43 cities, you should carefully time your food capacities. That takes some micro-management, but since not may cities are candidate for that size, it's not too frequent.

Extra note about big cities: any population past 36 does not contribute anything practical to the empire... e.g., no shields, no science, no taxes. All citizens at #37 and beyond only contribute luxuties

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[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by starlifter:

Extra note about big cities: any population past 36 does not contribute anything practical to the empire... e.g., no shields, no science, no taxes. All citizens at #37 and beyond only contribute luxuties <IMG SRC="http://forums.civfanatics.com/ubb/frown.gif" border=0>.

Doesn't that suck.... I guess they figured no body would get that large or the icons would be so small that nobody could click on them anyways.

Rosicrucian:

I don't know what difficulty level you are playing at but here is what I do for Diety (generally).

Build a warrior, then settler, then settler, then warrior, then settler, then settler, then temple. After that I either build settlers or caravans. Some cities I have build offensive units for my 'aggresive defense'. Remember, you don't have to have all your cities building the same stuff. I actually mix my building so that I am never left completely without anything I may need.

I usually mix marketplaces for some and libraies for others, that keeps me somewhat balanced money and tech wise. Although I've noticed that the people who get the highest scores usually push money more than tech after a certain level.

 

[starlifter]

posted July 04, 2001 12:24 AM by Duke of Marlbrough:

Originally posted by starlifter:

Extra note about big cities: any population past 36 does not contribute anything practical to the empire...

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By Duke of Marlbrough :

Doesn't that suck.... I guess they figured no body would get that large or the icons would be so small that nobody could click on them anyways.

One of my earliest questions (before I knew about a lot of the Civ II idiosyncracies) what why the ^(*&$#(*& couldn't I use more than 16 citizens as taxmen/scientists. Seemed like such an arbitrary limitation!

 

[Supernaut]

So why do people bother building huge cities? Surely it's better to get 4 cities to size 30 than one to size 120, and it saves messing about with food caravans. Or am I missing something??

 

[starlifter]

posted July 04, 2001 06:34 AM
So why do people bother building huge cities? Surely it's better to get 4 cities to size 30 than one to size 120, and it saves messing about with food caravans. Or am I missing something??

Personally, I view it as folly to build unnaturally large cities, which means using food cravans to pump a city up. All that happens for each citizen past 36 is adding a point to the final score. A size 100 city is worth 58 more points than a size 42, for example.

In fact, 4 size 30 cities could be worth up to 4 * ( 30 + 20 ) = 200 points. A single size 120 city could be worth ( 120 + 20 ) = 140 points. That is because you can have up to 20 happy citizens in a city

.

 

[Atreidis_42o]

I agree alot with starlifter about settler employment, certainly my raod-railroad infastructure is much more efficient and takes the best advantages of the naturally occuring reasources. I do NOT however believe in wasting time with super large cities, to the point where I will hold off on getting aquaducts/sewage sytems.

This is because

1: A buncha of small cites creat much more trade and units then a single large city (though sometimes this seems "wrong").

2: If you put a cap on your city size you can stop it from going into dis-order and put more trade/science/production techs intot it before higher level luxury improvements which drain your taxes every turn. (this is especially true with the WOW which doubles all yoru temples hapyness value, then you can get to aquaducts without needing collesiums most of the time)

3: It gives me somethgin to do with my tuime whiel I am waiting for other players in MP games and creates more cities for caravan routs

4: There is no 4

5: You don't have to worry about all the extra people in yoru city being useless and half the time only adding drainage early game.

Late game... I am usually fundi so every bit of population and every luxury improvement increases my bottom line. :-D Fundi is the best MONEY oriented gov't (MONEY not TRADE!). ~Q