War scenario tech tree

[jhogun]

I'm looking to make a scenario simulating a war lasting no more than ten years or so. I've seen so many scenarios like that with virtually no modifications to the tech tree-they just slow the science rate waaaay down so that research isn't a factor.

I want to make a fully developed tech tree for my scenario. Maybe not fully developed-I'd like to use 20 or 30 techs, which is more than you find in most all-out war scenarios.

I'd like to find some scenarios that are already out there that are like that-short war scenarios with a pretty good tech tree. Can anyone recommend any scenarios? I'd like to take a peak at their rules file. Any genre will be fine, but especially ancient, medieval, or fantasy.

 

[Mercator]

Why do you specifically want short war scenario tech trees?

If you want them for inspiration on technologies, any scenario remotely related to the topic you had in mind should give you enough of that.

If you want them to get some ideas about how tech trees are used to simulate war-time developments, you can use almost every decent historical scenario out there. Mostly WWII scenarios, probably.

Or do you have other things in mind?

 

[jhogun]

Originally posted by Mercator
Why do you specifically want short war scenario tech trees?

If you want them for inspiration on technologies, any scenario remotely related to the topic you had in mind should give you enough of that.

If you want them to get some ideas about how tech trees are used to simulate war-time developments, you can use almost every decent historical scenario out there. Mostly WWII scenarios, probably.

Or do you have other things in mind?

That's the thing. Most scenarios that simulate a single war lasting just a few years don't bother with the tech tree. They may throw in a few token advances, but research takes a back seat if it's considered at all. I've seen so many war scenarios that don't even alter the tech tree, even though they only cover a few years instead of all of history.

I have seen one good WW2 scenario that does what I'm looking for. Zweiter WeltKrieg (version 2.1) by kobayashi has some cool tech trees that simulate the kind of technological advances that might take place over a few years of war, as opposed to grand catch-all concept advances like "Leadership" or "Invention". Instead of "Tactics", I'd like to see "Shield Wall" or "Turtle Formation". Instead of "Horseback Riding", I want "Stirrups" or "Barding". I want technology to be a real factor, and I want it to progress in a logical fashion like it would in a few years of war. Technologies that would naturally stem from each other over the course of a few years.

And like I said, I'm specifically looking for Ancient, Medieval, or Fantasy scenarios.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

There are many scenarios that fit your criteria... On top of koby's ZWK, you should try BKA's "A World at War 1939-45" for a WW2 scenario with a full blown tech tree.

As for medieval+ scenarios, you could give my own scenarios a try for inspiration. "The Spanish Armada" (of which v1.4 will be out in the public soon), and my recently finished "Hammer of the North v2", which also has a full-blown tech tree (it does span a 'war' of some 300 years or so).

 

[Mercator]

Originally posted by jhogun
I want technology to be a real factor, and I want it to progress in a logical fashion like it would in a few years of war. Technologies that would naturally stem from each other over the course of a few years.

But technologies don't develop over such a short period of time. Not at the scale of technologies usually used in Civ2 anyway, even those you just mentioned. That's why I pointed to WWII scenarios. They often use technologies and events, not just for technological progress, but also for simulating changes in the political landscape, and other things like that.

And like I said, I'm specifically looking for Ancient, Medieval, or Fantasy scenarios.

But I don't really know of any such scenarios. None that cover such a short period of time anyway (maybe LOTR?). Again, that's why WWII might be of interest, just because it's a short war. Although it won't give you exact technologies ready for you to use, it might give you enough ideas to get you started.

 

[jhogun]

Not full-blown technologies, but smaller innovations, tweaks to pre-existing technology if you will. Wars have always been catalysts for technological advances, as each side tries to develop a weapon that will give them an edge over the enemy. Military technology improves and brings with it advances in peripheral fields.

Morten, I just dl'd Hammer of the North. It looks good, I'll be trying it out soon. Couldn't find Spanish Armada though.

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Originally posted by jhogun
Wars have always been catalysts for technological advances, as each side tries to develop a weapon that will give them an edge over the enemy.

I tried very hard to integrate that kind of thing into the tech tree for my Hammer scenario, especially in the developments of raiding tactics, archery and siege warfare, where, historically, improvements in one field quickly led to responses in another. I.e. the building and improvements of fortifications in response to raids, and the development in archery and siege engines as means of countering these.

It is very difficult to do, without gross simplifications of course, but if you can provide that feeling you describe, that's more than half the thrill of playing out a war-like scenario. This is basically what civ is about - and always has been - simulated with the tech-tree. But it's not always succesful in scenarios.

The trouble - or freedom if one likes - with medieval warfare, of course, is that there is a great deal of speculation involved, since sources are sparse. You simply don't have the kind of detail you need, so you'll have to make a lot of educated guesses. Especially when developing a tech tree in a game, that can go astray from the "what really happened" kind of thinking and allows different paths of development. And then there are the many limitations of the engine itself, so even when you have some detail, you can not always find a way to integrate it.

 

[jhogun]

Morten, after a rudimentary examination the tech tree in Hammer looks similar to what I'm trying to do, although as you said it encompasses a much longer (and probably more realistic) time frame than what I had in mind. And I love the Vikings! I'll definitely have to take it for a spin.

What I'm working on is a fantasy war scenario. I've actually got a bit of a tech tree worked out. It's about 60 techs, half of which are normal mundane techs and half are magical research, but goal-driven. Sort of like the development of the atomic bomb in ww2, it (the magical side) culminates in the development of a super-spell which greatly tips the balance (with a couple little side branches). You have to get it before the enemy. "Prince of Darkness" by Tecumseh had a similar feature which worked well.

Anyway, I've got the magic part pretty well organized, and some of the non-magic part. I was looking to look at and maybe swipe other people's ideas for that. I appreciate the help and advice, from you and Mercator.

And where can I download Spanish Armada?

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

Originally posted by jhogun
And where can I download Spanish Armada?

Please refer to this thread :

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=84315

 

[jhogun]

Thanks again.