Warlords and BtS Compatibility

[Virulent]

I've been living under a rock for the last few days and I just found out about the BtS expansion today. From what little we know about it sounds like a must buy for me. However it's making me wonder how exactly will BtS and Warlords work together (if at all). I can see the following situations:

-BtS will include all of the Warlords main game features (extra civs, vassals, GGs, trebuchets, etc.) but not the scenarios.

-BtS will include all of the Warlords main game features minus the extra civs/leaders and the scenarios. (You could play the Warlord civs in Bts if you own Warlords).

-BtS will include ALL of the Warlords content (very unlikely, they're still selling Warlords in stores).

-BtS will include none of the Warlords content but you would be able to use both the BtS and Warlords features if you own both expansions. I can see this happening but it would make balancing and multiplayer a pain because you would have to deal with four different configurations (vanilla, warlords, bts, bts/warlords).

-BtS would be totally separate and you could not use Warlords content in BtS at all. (This would be very lame).

At this early stage we won't know how this is going to work until Firaxis releases more info but we can always speculate.

 

[Infantry#14]

hopefully. bts include all warlord contents. Warlord may be sell for lesser price, while bts will sell for higher price

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Very good analysis. Let's look at each possibility logically:

Option 1 makes sense: all of the game features are included so that it truly is a "step up" from Warlords. Feasible and very likely.

Option 2 is possible for the same reasons as 1, but based on the way the XML is set up it would not make any sense to disallow the Warlords civs/leaders, if it is possible at all. Not very likely.

Option 3 is possible, though perhaps unlikely for the reason you pointed out - profit is the motivating force here, after all.

Option 4 would be a real pain to work out in terms of code - it's hard to separate the XML files for the two expansions unless they've completely rearranged the system. Take the Warlords and Vanilla XML for Civ4CivilizationInfos as an example.

Finally, option number 5 is not only lame but also, IMO, just plain mean, and suicidal from an economic standpoint. It would create immense frustration among players, and it also goes against past Civ history, so it's extremely unlikely.

Based on these reasons, my conclusion is that either BtS includes all Warlords content, or all content minus the scenarios. And from the way PtW and C3C were set up in Civ 3, I bet that you can still play the Warlords scenarios in BtS, if you have them installed.

 

[bonafide11]

I imagine BtS will have everything but the scenarios. It kind of has to incorporate Warlords to at least some extent because of the trait differences. There wouldn't be imperialist/charismatic/protective... What good would imperialist be if you don't get 100% emergence of great generals because you don't have warlords?

 

[Gaius Octavius]

This is the key point: the description on the Firaxis website says that the new civs will include their "unique units and buildings". So that means the Warlords content will be included. Maybe not the scenarios, but at least the basic features.

 

[King Flevance]

So for people like me (Vanilla CIVers) I can just skip buying Warlords? I can't emphasize strongly enough how much I don't care about scenarios. That sounds good to me

 

[Virulent]

This is the key point: the description on the Firaxis website says that the new civs will include their "unique units and buildings". So that means the Warlords content will be included. Maybe not the scenarios, but at least the basic features.

Another thing to think about is that BtS will have its own scenarios and they would be pretty lacking if they were missing out on the Warlords features (GGs and vassals at the very least).

They could possibly have it so that BtS requires base Civ IV AND Warlords but I'm sure that the backlash would be huge. Also I never heard of a expansion pack that required the base game and a previous expansion.

 

[Phoenix1595]

Firaxis has to be either creating Warlord content in BTS for Warlord-less fans, or they will require Warlords to play BtS. Warlords adds many crucial elements to Civ4, like traits and certain gameplay features, that seem to be playing off Warlords.

Why you don't have Warlords is beyond me. Civ4 is only tolerable to me WITH Warlords. I can't wait for BtS to crown the game.

 

[cuchulain]

I hope they announce how BTS will affect Warlords asap. If they were greedy enough, you'd think firaxis would require players to buy warlords to use BTS- that way they'd make more money. (some people wouldn't buy it, but I bet most would.) I tend to doubt they'll include all the warlords content in BTS like they did with PTW and conquests- if they do, I'm never buying a civ expansion again. You fool me once, shame on you; you fool me twice... yafoolmecantgetfooledagain.

 

[MarkM]

I hope they announce how BTS will affect Warlords asap. If they were greedy enough, you'd think firaxis would require players to buy warlords to use BTS- that way they'd make more money. (some people wouldn't buy it, but I bet most would.) I tend to doubt they'll include all the warlords content in BTS like they did with PTW and conquests- if they do, I'm never buying a civ expansion again. You fool me once, shame on you; you fool me twice... yafoolmecantgetfooledagain.

If you're still playing warlords when BTS came out, a year after warlords, then you got plenty good value out of it & shouldn't complain.

Frankly, I'll be upset if BTS doesn't carry forward all the warlords basic gameplay tweaks -- and I'm a Warlords owner! Asking that BTS not deliver to us the ultimate, complete civ4 experience just so you can feel your warlords copy still has some value after BTS comes out is sorta biting your nose to spite your face, isn't it? Think about what you're asking for: to lose some functionality of warlords forever going forward, never being able to have a great general or vassals in BTS, etc! If there is ANYTHING AT ALL that you like about warlords, WHY ON EARTH AS A CIV PLAYER WOULD YOU WANT THAT COMPLETELY GONE FROM ALL CIV4 PRODUCTS GOING FORWARD?

 

[Shawnosaurus]

Why you don't have Warlords is beyond me. Civ4 is only tolerable to me WITH Warlords. I can't wait for BtS to crown the game.

The words right out of my mouth. Or, uh.. right off my keyboard? Whatever. You know what I mean Agreed!

I would think if you're inclined to buy an expansion pack odds are you'd buy both, not just 1 or the other.

.

 

[Celeborn]

Well... I'd say if you go from what they did with the Civ 3 Expansions, then we will be seeing most of Warlords' features in BtS.

After all, Conquests contained most of PTW's features.

 

[bonafide11]

If you're still playing warlords when BTS came out, a year after warlords, then you got plenty good value out of it & shouldn't complain.

I couldn't agree more. I bought Warlords the day it came out, paid $30, and got more than enough playing time out of it. Definitely worth the value. I'll buy Beyond the Swords the day it come out and spend another $30. Firaxis can keep releasing new expansion packs every summer and I'll continue buying them

 

[qwert]

I guess that in BTS will include everithing from Warlords except the scenarios and new civs and leaderheads of Warlords.

 

[King Flevance]

Why you don't have Warlords is beyond me. Civ4 is only tolerable to me WITH Warlords. I can't wait for BtS to crown the game.

The reason I don't have Warlords is I saw it as an expansion worth 10 bucks the day it came out and still feel that way about it. It is at 15 bucks right now, I will wait until BtS comes out before I buy. Maybe then it will be only 10 bucks, or better yet I won't have to shell out a dime for it.

Firaxis has now officially made me weary of their first expansion packs. First PTW now this one.

BtS looks like a real expansion, although I admit I won't be buying it on its first day due to being disappointed in vanilla's quality on release, then warlords. I will wait and see what I am buying before I commit. If it is as good as I think it will be, I will buy it though. But I would prefer not having to pay for warlords unless I want the scenarios. (At this point picture Doug Heffernan "mouth-to-hand farting")

 

[cuchulain]

If there is ANYTHING AT ALL that you like about warlords, WHY ON EARTH AS A CIV PLAYER WOULD YOU WANT THAT COMPLETELY GONE FROM ALL CIV4 PRODUCTS GOING FORWARD?

I honestly don't care if BTS includes all the warlords content or not; my point is that if BTS includes everything warlords does, then the next time friaxis makes a game, i'm going to wait until all the expansions come out before buying them. There's no point spending money on two expansions when all I have to buy is one. (as was the case with conquests which included all the content of ptw)

 

[Chose]

After all, Conquests contained most of PTW's features.

Actualy it contains all the the PTW's content. All i did was buy Conquests. Because of this i have held off from buying warlords, even tho i did deffend it when i came out. I hope BTS has all of warlords, But i would be fine if it did not have the scenarios from warlords... but i do wish to play the sparta and athens scenario.

 

[Spocko]

I guess you could take a $20 bill and a $10 bill, fold them up like paper airplanes and have a splendid time playing with them while waiting for next year's XP.

 

[zarakand]

The reason I don't have Warlords is I saw it as an expansion worth 10 bucks the day it came out and still feel that way about it. It is at 15 bucks right now, I will wait until BtS comes out before I buy. Maybe then it will be only 10 bucks, or better yet I won't have to shell out a dime for it.

I don't really understand your frustration with Warlords. The game is supposed to be entertainment, and for $30 delivers a decent entertainment value.

For example consider going to the movies roughly $8 for 2 hours of entertainment. If you look at it from that sort of perspective, Warlords is not overly expensive and not a huge waste of money.

 

[MayNilad Man]

They could also give a discount to the owners of Warlords.

But that would be a logistical nightmare, unless they sent you a gift certificate when you register your Warlords version via the 'net, which still leaves the question on how to give it to those living outside the US... Like me, but then, I don't own Warlords.