water walking settler for lanun

[Sureshot]

Lanun/AV running sacrifice/conquest/militarystate do quite well. and while in my previous example there was no mention of using food to build buildings, i did note that you could buy buildings (you do so with gold via the gold rush feature of military state).

id love being able to make 1 tile islands in the middle of the ocean as lanun, between trade routes and all that food and commerce you'd be sailing heh

 

[Blackmantle]

@ rocklikeafool: You don't belive the Lanun to be exactely a weak civ, do you? (Since they have lost their food-penalty for farms at least. Which they did a long while ago)

And pop is very easy to get as Lanun. Especially in cities with a lot of water. Getting the pop to rush a lighthouse is not that hard, especially if you add some slaves into the mix (no matter where you get those from, its not hard to get enough to put even an one tile island-city into reach of a 1-pop rush which doesn't require a big pop first.).
Also there is nothing preventing a Lanun player to put his cities near hills for mining (in fact its easier than for most civs since you can put very good productive cities in places rather bad for other civs. Read: With lots of water and hills around but without much seafood / land-based-food sources. In addition to the places where other civs can put good production-sites.)


If you don't like it don't use it. Still doesn't make Slavery and Pop-Rushing a bad civic / strategy. (and imo is way better than military state. Besides beeing the way more interesting tech-path for Lanun as well imo. Even though conquest helps alot. Foreign Trade works very well with Lanun especially when combined with Slavery for Production. But surely thats down to individual strategy and situation in a given game.)

Oh and should you play Falamar (which seems a bit weaker to me but is still very solid in my book.) Lighthouses are much cheaper to build as well (thanks to expansive trait) which makes that one even easier / faster. (Even though Hannah gets more milage out of an one tile island city in the long run.)

 

[rocklikeafool]

@ rocklikeafool: You don't belive the Lanun to be exactely a weak civ, do you?

I never said they were weak at all. I think they are well done actually. But look back at some of my posts and see that I want OO civs AND the Lunan to have the ability to build these water cities. So, we need hammers, food, and commerce to be equal.

To stress this, I think the OO civs AND the Lunan should be able to build these water cities.

 

[Crazy_Ivan]

Well that raises the question of what happens when/if you convert from the OO.

Do you keep the waterborne cities?

Do they get eaten by giant crazy crabs?

They become barb cities and stare menacingly at you?


Addition: A good solution for the question of 'The cities are surrounded by water! THEY GETS NO HAMMERZ!' would be the ability to plant a workboat in a float tile, changing the loaves of bread in the tile to hammers. So, your city would choose between having food filled float tiles or hammers being supported by food from the larger fat cross.

And if you want to argue that 'How ocean maek hammers', lets say its giant fish bones, or pirate parties sent to land to bring back trees and pitch, or ice houses or hell, a wizard did it.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well that raises the question of what happens when/if you convert from the OO.

They become barb cities and stare menacingly at you?

That'd be wat I say the cities should do. But, if you, as the player, know you can lose cities by convertin from OO to (insert other religion here), then you're prolly less likely to do so. Whether the AI is that smart, I don't really know or care. But it can prolly be coded in with the AI.

Addition: A good solution for the question of 'The cities are surrounded by water! THEY GETS NO HAMMERZ!' would be the ability to plant a workboat in a float tile, changing the loaves of bread in the tile to hammers. So, your city would choose between having food filled float tiles or hammers being supported by food from the larger fat cross.

Well, that solves wat I was sayin bout no hammers.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I still think that water cities are a bad idea.

Experimenting with water walking settlers was fun, but I couldn't resist the tempation to circumnavigate the world before settling down, so I removed it (or rather didn't include it in the 0.32i version). I also managed to get most of the goody huts on most continents, and was lucky enough to get a free settler from the first one I found the first time I did this. I just realized that there is an obvious fix to this exploit. I'm giving them Water walking again, but this time making Oceans impassible for them.


I still think that it could be a good idea to take away Water Walking from Cultists (since in my version priests don't require state religions, only their spells do) and to let Speakers cast a spell that grant a Temporary Water Walking promotion to the units in its stack (probably only to disciples, melee, and civilian units, but maybe also archer and recon. Water Walking Hippus Knights are too much. I might also make the temporary water walking promotion increase the movement costs, and if someone would change the schema to allow it I'd make Oceans impassible to these units until Malevolent Designs). That would allow water walking settlers too, but much later in the game.

In my version water hammers aren't that much of problem, at least later on. I've implemented the BtS Levee building at Engineering and given the Lanun the Dike UB. (I also added the Customs House and Feitoria for the Lanun at Taxation.) I alo think that (one of) the OO cathedral(s)/advanced temples will provide +1 hammer per water tile.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, as with everythin, balance issues will come up that will need to be addressed.