Weak units winning

[fwfessly]

I don't understand how a the Zulu special unit can beat a musketman and a medieval unit (my units were in the city and had walls.

Is it because i am playing on regent that the AI receives a bonus in offense or is it something else?

 

[aaglo]

It's all about good/bad luck. A toss of a coin. A throw of a dice.

I think it would make a boring game, if the stronger unit always would win.

 

[Frollo]

No, the AI doesn't get any combat bonuses on higher difficulty levels.

I guess you just had bad luck. In every single battle there's a random element, don't forget that.
This is only one battle you described -- one Impi against one musketman. So yes, the outcome may surpise you. However, if you let two hundred Impis fight two hundred musketmen, I'm sure most musketmen will survive.

 

[knacki]

Just a question of statistics / probabilities.
With only one exception : a tank will never kill a spear

 

[Longasc]

The weaker unit has simply bad chances to win, but this does not mean that it is impossible.

A single spearman CAN conquer the whole world, it is just very unlikely.

It is proven that spearmen can waste Tank armies, yeah, face the wrath of Achilles!

 

[Ægir]

Exactly, you seriously gotta watch out for those spearmen. They'll take you out and dominate your army like that (snaps fingers).

 

[Sparrow3]

English destroyer meets Sumerian Battle ship, 1 on 1.
You would think the destroyer would go down in defeat. BUT NO!
Two out of three times the battleship rolls over and sinks. Really bad luck with the dice. Still that's the way they roll.

 

[Jason Fliegel]

Here's a stupid combat question -- does the game have any kind of "fatigue" built in? I've noticed that if I attack a defender with 2 offensive units, my second one will invariably do much better. For example, let's say there's a city defended by a musketman (Defense 4) and I come at him with two Medieval Infantry (Attack 4). Invariably, my first attack will lose -- as you would expect, since the musketman is fortified in a city. What surprises me is that my second attacker wins more often than I'd expect. This is true even if my frist attacker didn't weaken the musketman at all. Is it because the musketman is flagged as "tired" after the first attack and therefore defends less well during the second attack? Or is it just my imagination?

 

[Pounder]

Here's a stupid combat question -- does the game have any kind of "fatigue" built in? I've noticed that if I attack a defender with 2 offensive units, my second one will invariably do much better. For example, let's say there's a city defended by a musketman (Defense 4) and I come at him with two Medieval Infantry (Attack 4). Invariably, my first attack will lose -- as you would expect, since the musketman is fortified in a city. What surprises me is that my second attacker wins more often than I'd expect. This is true even if my frist attacker didn't weaken the musketman at all. Is it because the musketman is flagged as "tired" after the first attack and therefore defends less well during the second attack? Or is it just my imagination?

Yes, this seems to happen alot, especially after unit is promoted after a successful defense, the next unit attacks and kills without taking a hit.

Maybe its just that I remember these type of random events more than other fights.

 

[dmanakho]

Yes, this seems to happen alot, especially after unit is promoted after a successful defense, the next unit attacks and kills without taking a hit.

Maybe its just that I remember these type of random events more than other fights.

It does happen a lot indeed, if not all the time....
You can send you veteran or even regular cavalry against defending rifleman and it will get killed and rifleman even promoted without losing HPs, but your next cavalry wins in 9 cases out of 10.. That happens to me all the time and in both ways when I attack and when I am attacked.
I am not sure if there is a "tired defender" factor involved

 

[alamo]

I personally think that there is some intentional bias in the RNG.

There are some serious spells of unusual victory/defeats. That's why occasionally those infantry attacking an infantry in a town win.

 

[Tomoyo]

That's what HP is for! If each unit only had 1 HP, the results would be much more unusual battles. Let's see...

A vet impi against an unfortified vet Musket in city walls... That is a 1/7*7*7*7 chance for the impi to win. not exactly likely.

And even if the AI got an attack boost, it would start to affect you startng at Monarch, not Regent, because on Regent the AI and the human are on equal footing.

 

[1337]

get this: a single conscript warrior beat an elite fortified mech infantry. Explain that one.

 

[Halcyon]

It's all just chance. Fickle thing, chance. Playing AoD earlier today, I very nearly lost a Medieval Infantry army to a fortified Aztec spearman in an amphibious attack (it lost 13hp), and lost a fortified elite musketman behind a trace italienne in a town on a hill to nothing less than a Chasquis scout. To be fair, though, I'd won long before, so it didn't matter. Only the Inca, the Maya and myself as England were still in the game at the end, and it wasn't looking good for the Inca.

 

[Illusion13]

get this: a single conscript warrior beat an elite fortified mech infantry. Explain that one.

PICS. NOW.!!!

Seriously, its cause I think with everything, including HP and such into account, one number is generated. This number determines the victor, and the HP remaing on the Victor. This outcome is biased towards one of higher HP/higher a/d points... And, for the defender, there are like, 5 bonuses you can get? Think about it, with a spear man, in a fortified metropolis, you get 100% right there, 20% if I recall for grassland, and 25% more if crossing river. If fortified its 50% more? That gives it a rough defence value of 9? Thats stronger than a even than an Immortal, who is supposed to shread Spearmen... *shrugs*

 

[Halcyon]

Seriously, its cause I think with everything, including HP and such into account, one number is generated. This number determines the victor, and the HP remaing on the Victor. This outcome is biased towards one of higher HP/higher a/d points... And, for the defender, there are like, 5 bonuses you can get? Think about it, with a spear man, in a fortified metropolis, you get 100% right there, 20% if I recall for grassland, and 25% more if crossing river. If fortified its 50% more? That gives it a rough defence value of 9? Thats stronger than a even than an Immortal, who is supposed to shread Spearmen... *shrugs*

Not quite. The best a defence spearman will get when defending against a non-barbarian is being fortified in a metropolis with a civil defence, built on a hill, with the enemy attacking across a river. Since the modifiers are added before they're applied, this gives 2x(1 + 0.25 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.5 + 0.25) - 7 defence. Being fortified in a barricade on a mountain across a river will give the same bonuses - +100% for the mountain, +100% for the barricade, +25% for fortification and +25% for the river, making +250% overall. That one's a little more likely, since you're probably not going to see a spearman defending a major city of a civ who have Electronics.

 

[fwfessly]

If some of it is based on luck what is the point of having attack and defence?

 

[Illusion13]

If some of it is based on luck what is the point of having attack and defence?

Think about this. A vs B. A has a 99% chance of beating B. At luck, B will win cause, if on a spinner, 1/100 it'll hit the part where B wins. Makes sense?

 

[1337]

so technically your outdated weak units could still win?

 

[alamo]

You know it's an old thread when you see you've already replied....

Yes, an infinite supply of conscript barbs will defeat a fortified MI in fortress on a mountain across a river in a metro with radar towers all around.