what? 4 spies only?

[devilhunterred]

it's so stupid that a nation can only have 4 spies at once, if i have 8 rivals, how am i suppose to set up a massive intelligence network to gather info on all 8 rivals??

plus the fact that most nations are so big that 4 spies can hardly cover up 1/2 of the area

i bet CIA has more than 4 agents on the field gathering intel for pentagon, hell, i bet it has over 4000 all around the world !!!

and this probably goes the same for most nations that has a respectable intelligence agency

plus spies in civ iv can only set fires on farms, flood the mines, block roads, stuff that sounds like any rebelling raging teens can do

geez, and they cost 4 gold a turn! i can just grab a teen from a high school and let him do the spy's job

spy in civ vi sucks, anyone agree?

 

[Lannes]

Actually, I think having more than 4 would unbalance the game.
They are extremely usefull to explore an AI as they move fast, can use enemy's railraod and roads, and so one spy can cover a lot of ground, allowing you to see most of the oponent's configuration.

But they can do nice sabotage of strategical ressources. If you wage war in the modern age (I like it, so I try to keep some oponent computer until then), then the spy in invaluable in removing strategical ressources like oil and aluminium from your oponent making it easier to win the war. For 200 dollar per sabotage it is very usefull to be able to remove all the oil from a nation as it is waging war (and therefore can not build tanks, ships or planes anymore).

If you had more than 4, you could cripple the oponent so bad that the game would be totally unbalanced. Especially since the computer does not seem to be able to send a ton of worker to the newly destroyed oil in order to rebuild it in one turn.

Of course I bet the spy would be less usefull insabotaging a human oponent (but I only play single player... not enough time to commit to a multiplayer game).

Just my 2 cents.

 

[devilhunterred]

Actually, I think having more than 4 would unbalance the game.
They are extremely usefull to explore an AI as they move fast, can use enemy's railraod and roads, and so one spy can cover a lot of ground, allowing you to see most of the oponent's configuration.

But they can do nice sabotage of strategical ressources. If you wage war in the modern age (I like it, so I try to keep some oponent computer until then), then the spy in invaluable in removing strategical ressources like oil and aluminium from your oponent making it easier to win the war. For 200 dollar per sabotage it is very usefull to be able to remove all the oil from a nation as it is waging war (and therefore can not build tanks, ships or planes anymore).

If you had more than 4, you could cripple the oponent so bad that the game would be totally unbalanced. Especially since the computer does not seem to be able to send a ton of worker to the newly destroyed oil in order to rebuild it in one turn.

Of course I bet the spy would be less usefull insabotaging a human oponent (but I only play single player... not enough time to commit to a multiplayer game).

Just my 2 cents.

not really, when you send in a unit to a tile, the chance of the spy successfully sabotage it is dropped by 20%, add in a couple more and her chance will be close to 0

in modern age, the only resouces that are essential to you are oil uranium and rubber, so looking at the things that the spy can sabotage and have a real impact on you, there isn't that many

the AI is just stupid, it doesn't mean in CIV V they can't be programmed to be smarter and varied

 

[lobster]

Consider each spy unit in Civ 4 a "spy squad", not an individual person.

 

[Lannes]

Civ IV is a game, not a simulation. It does not claim to be one, so why should we expect it to be?
Sure most nations have a lot more than 4 spies, or even 4 spies network. But civ IV does not have to follow that. The real issue is not one of comparison to real life, but one of game play and game balance issues. This is the only think that matters.
Having more than 4 spies can probably be moded?

It is the same issue with missionaries right? You can only have 3 at a time..... probably to avoid you being able to spread your religion too quickly.

 

[Lannes]

If I am not mistaken you are describing spies similar to the Civ II version. Ha... there were a lot of good things in Civ II that disapeared......and did not find their way back.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

If the limit on spies was to be removed, then there would need to be a limit on the number of spies that could be sent to each nation in order not to unbalance the game (which would still effectivley limit you). Whilst its not realistic, and I often wish I could have more then 4 spies, it would make the game unbalanced, especially as the AI seems inept when it comes to using them.

On a side note, it would definetley be good to see some of missions they could carry out in CivII brought back. At the moment, they seem very dull in comparison.

 

[devilhunterred]

dull is right, spy in civ vi is no fun, at all

and what's spies in civ ii like? never played it

 

[Mango]

Spies used correctly can cripple opponents. Just being able to explore opponent's territory to see where their army is located is good. Being able to take out resources is immense. If an opponent only has one source of iron or oil and that resource is really far away from you then it is difficult to send your army to capture that. A spy can cripple that resource much faster.

 

[devilhunterred]

it still doesnt convince me to train a spy in CIV IV

first of all spy alreayd have a wildly varied chance of successful sabatoge, 40-80%

if AI sends a military unit on it, which, in warlord or above levels, they do, the chance is dropped by 20% for every unit that is on the tile

not to mention that if the enemy rival is seperated by waters, you would have to build a sub first then send her aboard and waste a couple more turns just to reach enemy territory and find that oil

and then do what? risk wasting 200 gold, a spy, and a -1 negative relationship point just to roll a dice with 20%-60% of getting an even number?

 

[jUNGLE cHRIS]

dull is right, spy in civ vi is no fun, at all

and what's spies in civ ii like? never played it

in civ 2, spies could do a LOT more. sabatoge improvements, sabatoge militairy units, bribe units, incite revolt, steal technology, investigate city, plant nuclear device, build emissary. i think theres more, ill have to check. but you also got a diplomat with writing. they were basically an early spy. id like to see a lot of that stuff come back. The bribery wuold be really useful with unique units.

 

[Mango]

it still doesnt convince me to train a spy in CIV IV

first of all spy alreayd have a wildly varied chance of successful sabatoge, 40-80%

if AI sends a military unit on it, which, in warlord or above levels, they do, the chance is dropped by 20% for every unit that is on the tile

not to mention that if the enemy rival is seperated by waters, you would have to build a sub first then send her aboard and waste a couple more turns just to reach enemy territory and find that oil

and then do what? risk wasting 200 gold, a spy, and a -1 negative relationship point just to roll a dice with 20%-60% of getting an even number?

Or you could send several spies, risk 800 gold and not care about the -1 point since you're about to wipe out that Civ anyway as soon as they are crippled.

Diplomacy warmonger style

 

[Flotsam]

More then 4 spies would be overpowering. Being able to destroy more then 4 resources(oil) per turn would make the game way too easy.

 

[ZB2]

this is just dumb, if you could build 239487345943 spies the game would be ruined, so 4 is not enough when your playing a 24 civ map, that ok, spies should be a bit plentiful, but your all just being rediculous now. use a spy to sabotage uranium, or something, if your whining about not being able to destory it cos they have 237462 units on the tile, go to war and capture the nearest city if it bugs you THAT MUCH.

 

[ZB2]

More then 4 spies would be overpowering. Being able to destroy more then 4 resources(oil) per turn would make the game way too easy.

what he said.

 

[PraetorianSteve]

I personally think you should be able to build more spies, perhaps have an upper limit of 8 or 12 rather than just four and also let them be more like the Civ II spies, but I'm sure that's moddable for those of us that really want it, right? I can also see the reason why the limit is just four spies, but then again, one could counter that by making it a little bit more difficult for spies to destroy improvements.

The nuclear blast option was my favourite in Civ II btw. I would just love to see that message again: "Roman agent caught redhanded moments before blast."

 

[Jawsofwar]

Really do need spys to do more interesting things. I only built spys in one of my games so far. Why build a spy when you can build a tank?

 

[romelus]

the max # of spies should vary depending on the # of opponents. when playing 18 civs on a huge map, 4 spies is too few, especially when you are fighting multiple enemies. on a 1 on 1 duel map, 4 is too many.

also in civ2 the spy could poison the water supply of a city, killing a population point. not the best use of money but sure makes you feel an evil rush lol

 

[Vietcong]

spies are usless, make the limit 8 so u can atleast move around and gather intelagence on more civs.
make a duble agent feacer, so spys may be found, and u can recruit them as your own. or some other fuction
i just dont like how spying is handeled, its so unrealistic in every form.
u cant even steal techs!

 

[weasel77066]

Personally I think the whole civ spy system sucks...... Civ is not a tactical combat game, its an epic game (that represents a people growing through the ages). My idea is scrap the current spy system and start from fresh. Civ3 wasnt so bad as far as spies go. I would rather see a return to that general idea than I would having 10 or 12 spies..
I actually have never used my civ4 spies for anything other than investigating cities. Usually Im checking on the space race.