historix69
Emperor
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I'm not sure I know what not wanting settlers feels like
If you already own 50+ cities, settlers have less priority compared with a wonder/policy card which gives e.g. +1 amenity per city.
What are the most useful wonders?
- Thread starter halfhalfharp
- Start date
If you already own 50+ cities, settlers have less priority compared with a wonder/policy card which gives e.g. +1 amenity per city.
TomKQT
Prince
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Regardless of what the optimal strategy for Civ6 is, I still play it much more like Civ5 - fewer cities with more love for each cityI'm not sure I know what not wanting settlers feels like
And seriously, a wonder which gives in fact just 2 settlers (because the loyalty stuff is not easy to really fully use and there are no great person points, nothing like that) is a joke for me. I didn't compare the production needed for the wonder and for 2 settlers, but I would bet it is faster to make 2 settlers. Yes, I know, making 2 settlers means losing 2 population. But making the wonder means losing 1 tile
You don‘t lose pop with magnus. And you can have two +50% settler production bonuses running, while for wonders, it‘s only +15%. So you really don‘t build SoL for the two settlers. Would be a huge waste. I wish they would change it to give population/housing/amenities in nearby cities - but maybe it‘s too close to Angkor Wat then.Regardless of what the optimal strategy for Civ6 is, I still play it much more like Civ5 - fewer cities with more love for each city
And seriously, a wonder which gives in fact just 2 settlers (because the loyalty stuff is not easy to really fully use and there are no great person points, nothing like that) is a joke for me. I didn't compare the production needed for the wonder and for 2 settlers, but I would bet it is faster to make 2 settlers. Yes, I know, making 2 settlers means losing 2 population. But making the wonder means losing 1 tile
blackcatatonic
Queen of Meme
Well, sure. But by the time that wonder rolls around I've usually built most of the more useful ones in the game already.
Pietato
Platonic Perfection
Estadio do Maracana is the strongest wonder in the game. Pity it comes so late.
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Its pretty strong I agree but if you have coliseum its a nice to have. It is really helpful going for a points score but I will not try that again.
Archon_Wing
Vote for me or die
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Yea, it always finishes exactly 1 turn after I win. The very definition of useless.
Most of the late game wonders aren't on my list because they are just too late to matter in most cases.
Universally Powerful - My go-to Wonders in almost every game.
Big Ben - cash money.. what's not to like? Great Merchants are amazing and very underrated. And an economic policy slot? *Drool*
Colosseum - Amenities are needed by all
Colossus - Trade routes are powerful for any victory type. It's not crazy powerful but the fact that it comes prior to getting your economy going is very helpful.
Forbidden City - probably one of the most powerful wonders and can really help boost you into the industrial age.
Hanging Gardens - I'm beginning to appreciate this wonder if it's chopped into an early second city. Having a higher pop cap to get to the 4th district much sooner in a non-capital city without relying on policies is worth a chop or two to me. The increased growth rate also means I can switch trade routes from internal to internationally a cycle sooner.
Oracle - chop this in and get the Pingala Grants promotion ASAP and watch the great people roll in
Petra - effectively turns a desert city into a landlocked seaport ($$$)
Pyramids - builders are how civilizations are created
Situationally Powerful
Alhambra - Amenities plus an extra military policy slot for versatility so you can use Limes overflow while still having Conscription or Professional Army active.
Angkor Wat - the window to get this at it's most effective is Late Medieval when your high pop cities are already capped by housing. This will push them 1 higher, maybe unlocking the next district in a few cities without using policies.
Temple of Artemis - If you have 4+ camps, pastures and plantations around then this is amazing
Casa de Contratacion - Limited based on continents but a game changer if you are going wide and settled heavily on foreign continents.
Chichen Itza - Transforms a jungle city into a space race contender. No brainer for a culture victory as well.
Kilwa Kisiwana - If you are playing for city state favor then this is a very powerful compliment to any victory condition.
Mont St Michel - probably the key wonder for religious victories.
Oxford - hard to time where it's most beneficial to you without letting it fall to the AI but very good for space victories
Potala Palace - Great if you are trying to curry favor of city states. Otherwise just slot in +gpt or spy bonus and call it good.
Ruhr Valley - no brainer for Domination, science victories and maybe for a wonder/archeology heavy culture game
Stonehenge - want a religion? The first religion is the best religion. With Magnus, this is easily attainable.
Terracotta Army - this is ok in times of peace and downright amazing when you chop it in during times of war. Getting promotions across your military for heals and extra damage during a conquest will almost trivialize the next several turns.
Venetian Arsenal - Amazing for sea maps
Eifel Tower - this wonder can turbocharge a culture victory by creating tiles for Seaside resorts and national parks.
Universally Powerful - My go-to Wonders in almost every game.
Big Ben - cash money.. what's not to like? Great Merchants are amazing and very underrated. And an economic policy slot? *Drool*
Colosseum - Amenities are needed by all
Colossus - Trade routes are powerful for any victory type. It's not crazy powerful but the fact that it comes prior to getting your economy going is very helpful.
Forbidden City - probably one of the most powerful wonders and can really help boost you into the industrial age.
Hanging Gardens - I'm beginning to appreciate this wonder if it's chopped into an early second city. Having a higher pop cap to get to the 4th district much sooner in a non-capital city without relying on policies is worth a chop or two to me. The increased growth rate also means I can switch trade routes from internal to internationally a cycle sooner.
Oracle - chop this in and get the Pingala Grants promotion ASAP and watch the great people roll in
Petra - effectively turns a desert city into a landlocked seaport ($$$)
Pyramids - builders are how civilizations are created
Situationally Powerful
Alhambra - Amenities plus an extra military policy slot for versatility so you can use Limes overflow while still having Conscription or Professional Army active.
Angkor Wat - the window to get this at it's most effective is Late Medieval when your high pop cities are already capped by housing. This will push them 1 higher, maybe unlocking the next district in a few cities without using policies.
Temple of Artemis - If you have 4+ camps, pastures and plantations around then this is amazing
Casa de Contratacion - Limited based on continents but a game changer if you are going wide and settled heavily on foreign continents.
Chichen Itza - Transforms a jungle city into a space race contender. No brainer for a culture victory as well.
Kilwa Kisiwana - If you are playing for city state favor then this is a very powerful compliment to any victory condition.
Mont St Michel - probably the key wonder for religious victories.
Oxford - hard to time where it's most beneficial to you without letting it fall to the AI but very good for space victories
Potala Palace - Great if you are trying to curry favor of city states. Otherwise just slot in +gpt or spy bonus and call it good.
Ruhr Valley - no brainer for Domination, science victories and maybe for a wonder/archeology heavy culture game
Stonehenge - want a religion? The first religion is the best religion. With Magnus, this is easily attainable.
Terracotta Army - this is ok in times of peace and downright amazing when you chop it in during times of war. Getting promotions across your military for heals and extra damage during a conquest will almost trivialize the next several turns.
Venetian Arsenal - Amazing for sea maps
Eifel Tower - this wonder can turbocharge a culture victory by creating tiles for Seaside resorts and national parks.
zxcvbob
Emperor
I've never heard of some of these wonders, and don't know what Magnus is. R&F things?
WillowBrook
Lurker
Magnus is one of the governors in R&F. His base ability doubles the value of chops.
R&F added 8 new wonders, and several come with the DLC as well, so if you just have the base game, you won't know some of these.
Ok I grabbed this wonder after seeing your post and I have to admit that it was fun. I used an admiral that retires to create an armada on 2 Minas Gerais that just left the Venetian Arsenal and completely wrecked the entire map with 2 battleship armadas circa 1060 AD.
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yes, you do not need the Venetian, its a waste really. Mausoleum is great. Also I recommend if you have it have 1 IZ ... that will at least start clocking up the GE points and when it gets to one GE that speeds up a wonder buy the rest of it with faith/gold and you will get an extra charge. It becomes such a cost effective wonder in this way.
Sostratus
Deity
Having tested this, I realize you are correct.
James Watt Only increases the factory's host city bonus and not the aura. Nikola tesla increases both the host bonus and the aura. When I play, I get a little production obsessed (Germany is my go to civ) and build hansas in literally every single city- so I just assumed it went to the aura because every city shows +7 from factory. They should really clear that up in the text- maybe it's an oversight!
Other interesting points: The +100% production to space projects stacks, I believe. +District slots, and the ones offering housing and amenities, stack. But the two engineers with "+2 appeal to all tiles this city owns" have the same effect and their charges do not seem to stack, with each other or themselves. Alas, Pantanal National park and the many seaside resorts outside Munster are stuck at +7-9 instead of 13-16 appeal. I even have the Casa d Cont+off continent prod/gold card! I thought I couldn't lose!
Anyways... What do you guys think of Amundsen Scott Station? If you can get the global bonus it's quite powerful- +10% production! Everywhere!
I am always saddened that Kilwa doesn't seem to confer bonuses for industrial CS. Maybe it does and I just don't notice. You can get some crazy production modifiers in your colonies though- +20% (ruhr) +15% (casa gov) +10% (colonial taxes card) +10% (amundsen) +25% (Robber barons FTW!) = 60-80% depending on if you have Ruhr or not. With Kilwa I could finally crack +100%!
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My one game I have played with IZ seemed not to give any CS bonus as well.
Sostratus
Deity
My first thought was that perhaps military and industrial CS' bonus only apply when building units/buildings like the regular CS bonus, but that also seems to not be true. If it's there, it's undocumented as a modifier.
I get that this exception would be a lot to put in the hover text, but the Civilopedia should ideally mention some of these wonders' edge cases and be clearer about the ones with conditional extra bonuses. Ex: Amundsen-Scott's "yields are doubled if 5 snow tiles within 3 tiles of city" clause only applies to the city that builds it, not all your cities.
Archon_Wing
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Hmm, looking at this, I'm wondering how my thoughts have changed since now I've played more of Rise and Fall. Well, besides repeating the same wonder a few times. (I guess I was that undecided!) I think it's more like this:
Tier 1 (Essential)-- Always go for
Collosseum
Big Ben
Tier 2 (Strong)-- Usually always take a shot at, unless I'm really slow
Pyramids
Oxford
Forbidden City
Kilwa Kisiwani
Temple of Artemis
Tier 3 (Good)-- Try to get these on a good map, or a specific condition.
St Basil's
Oracle
Bolshoi
Effel Tower
Great Library
Cristo Redentor
Kilwa Kisiwani
Tier 4 (Ok)-- Mostly for decoration or making wins go smoother.
Mt St. Michel
Collossus
Petra
Casa de Contratación
Sydney Opera House
Hagia Sophia
Amudsen-Scott
Broadway
Chichen Itza
Collossus
Venetian Arsenal
Tier 5 (Weak)-- Would rarely build myself, I'd want to capture it
Great Zimbabwe
Alhambra
Hagia Sophia
Terracotta Army
Potala Palace
Venetian Arsenal
Ruhr Valley
Tier 6 (Awful)-- These are so bad that it's a waste of a tile and might even slow you down.
Hanging Gardens
Great Lighthouse
Huey Teocalli
Macarana
Hermitage
Those two crappy religous wonders
Tier 7 (Counterproductive) These are so bad it can cost you the game.
Taj Mahal
Stonehenge
Statue of Liberty
My first thoughts were that Broadway and Amundsen Scott are not as useless as initially thought. Broadway was improved to give 20% culture in a city and actually doesn't come as late in the tree as I had initally felt. Same goes for the later. That doesn't make them great, but I guess they aren't completely useless
I've also grown much colder on the extra policy card wonders since 1 card isn't that powerful at times as the game goes along. Forbidden Palace is still strong because of its reasonable price but in reality there really aren't that many great cards available when it comes along. And diplomatic cards seem to be more and more useless to me as time goes along unless America. Stuff that gives instant results like Big Ben that packages an extra policy just seems so much better.
I'm also over the Great Library hype, while strong, often becomes hard to build at times.
Mt. Michel, while overpowered for a certain tactic, made me realize just because something is potentially ridiculous on paper doesn't mean you'll always get the chance to abuse it, and some situations where the opponents haven't the religious units to turn you over relics at a decent rate.... well, reality isn't cool sometimes. It fits together with Great Zimbabwe.
Temple of Artemis has really caught on. At first I didn't really like how early and situational it is, but it is possible to overcome its opportunity cost with good planning, and of course for OCCs!
I probably should rate Casa de Contratación but for whatever reason I take forever to get off my own continent especially if it's split weirdly. Probably an issue of style.
I still like Colossus since 1 extra trade route means a lot these days but I guess there's other ways to get it.
I'm also pretty ambivalent of the one city based wonders. I still think highly of St. Basil's for its flexibility and you can always find tundra somewhere. Chichen Itza I admit seems to be a very temporary affect due to it being better to chop jungle but the short term culture boost can be good, and I just realized Brazil is better than i had initally thought. Ruhr, though, on the other hand, well, I've become pretty hostile to IZs for similar reasons. It just seems to set you back and late game production is really not that hot in R&F anymore.
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Slip de Garcon
Warlord
Great Zimbabwe is one of my favorites. The AI don't plan ahead enough to ever build it, so it's pretty safe. Then I use that commercial hub to level-up my spies.
This is my favourite wonder and my reason for liking it.
You build it, put all your trade routes in that city and a spy on the commercial hub and the AI literally can't top themselves trying to steal your money. So you soon end up with 3-promotion spies.
You have to be a bit careful as sometimes you'll get two attempts per turn so your spy will end up in the city centre when the 2nd attempt hits. So my preferred method is to have a district or the centre adjacent to the commercial hub so you have double cover.
The added benefit is you can capture a huge number of enemy spies. I've had up to ~20 in jail!
I tend to go for science victory, so in the late game I end up with a handful of super spies going round sabotaging everyone else's space programme, and they have no spies to resist me. Mwa ha ha.
kryat
King
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Potala Palace is a lot stronger than a lot of people give it credit for. They key is thinking that green cards affect spies and alliances, not just city state relationships. Since you can run AoD and Wisselbanken simultaneously, you can have an incredibly powerful trade routes. Add in Cryptography and Machiavellism and you can have spies completely terrorize your enemies. You’ll feel like you can’t get enough slots for all the green.
I always build Taj Mahal, partly because it’s so pretty to look at, but I always do it in a tertiary city that’s already maxed out toward my victory type. Mostly because the AI never seems that interested in it.
Archon_Wing
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They're actually pretty bad at maintaining those relationships. +2 envoy points per turn is nothing even early on, and the +4 comes really late.
They're good, but it's quite an investment to tackle something that happens much later after the wonder comes out.
But you know, you're sorta right anyways. At least it becomes useful. That's better than Ruhr which I don't have the heart to put in awful yet.
True, but I think it can actually mess things up by going too far over era score.
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