So I'm just 'tidying up' after a dom victory and go to convert an Islam puppet city of 4 pop with 4 pressure - the convert button text tells me that after this action "0 citizens will be following Christianity". Huh? So I try another city, Medina, which I burned down to 2 pop ages ago and is now 2 followers Christianity, 4 followers Islam (both low pressure) - same story. In the end I go to Mecca and it generously lets me waste my missionary converting 2 followers. All AI civs have long been (ahem) 'purged' by this time. I can't check the tenets now the AI is gone, but pretty sure there is no 'conversion of my cities is impossible' tenet that he could have taken! Anybody shed any light?
What is wrong with my missionaries?
- Thread starter Walter R
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Dark_Jedi06
"Deus ex Machina."
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I'm guessing the population of these cities are all following a religion already.
For example, a population 6 city with 3 followers of Islam and 3 of Hinduism will not be able to be converted with a missionary of either faith. You'd either need an Inquisitor (if it's your city) or a Great Prophet.
For example, a population 6 city with 3 followers of Islam and 3 of Hinduism will not be able to be converted with a missionary of either faith. You'd either need an Inquisitor (if it's your city) or a Great Prophet.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Not true...
Missionaries can convert "religious" citizens
In general looking at # of followers can be misleading.
A missionary adds a certain amount of religious pressure (same as the religious pressure from other cities)
[then the number of followers is calculated for some in each religion.. including the "no religion"]
If you will convert 0 new followers its because that city has a MASSIVE amount of religious pressure accumulated
That means you will need to use Prophets or Inquisitors (who Remove religious pressure)
^ This. From the OP's description (he's "tidying up"), it sounds like these cities have been receiving considerable amounts of Islam pressure over many turns. In those cases, missionaries are rarely able to overcome the accumulated pressure. A notable exception is missionaries with the Evangelism Reformation belief ("Missionaries' Spread Religion action erodes existing pressure from other religions").
JohnMK
Warlord
I always adopt Evangelism as my reformation belief. It might not be optimal play in all cases but I find the religious aspect of the game entertaining and I need my missionaries to work even in cities already following other religions. Evangelism turns them into miniature great prophets.
How much existing pressure do they remove? In late game, it seems like not a whole lot. Early on though, Evangelism is very effective.
How much existing pressure do they remove? In late game, it seems like not a whole lot. Early on though, Evangelism is very effective.
Unclear to me what their precise power is, but it is certainly less than a Great Prophet. Evangelist missionaries are, in any event, much more helpful deeper into the game than garden-variety missionaries.
The religion mechanic is not clearly described in the game itself.
Every city has an invisible "follower count" for each religion (which includes pantheons and "no religion" aka "atheism").
Citizens start as atheists.
If city A has Islam and city B is within 10 spaces of it, the religious pressure from A to B is +6 (on normal speed), which means that city B's follower count for Islam will increase by 6 per turn.
Using a Missionary's "spread religion" will add its strength (usually 1000, but can be depleted by Unwelcome Evangelists or increased by an enhancer belief) in followers to that city.
I forget the exact formula of followers to citizens (which is sort of like asking how many "atheist followers" a city has). I think it's 100 followers per citizen.
So if I'm right about it being 100, if a city has 1 population, it will have "no religion" until some religion's follower count passes 100, when the city will switch to that religion.
I think, whenever a city grows in population, the existing follower counts are scaled upward. So if a newly founded city starts with 100 atheists, gets up to 24 Christians from four turns of +6 pressure, then the city grows to size 2, the city's follower count will now be 200 atheists, 48 Christians.
The citizens of a city are proportionally divided among the religions with non-zero follower counts. So if a size-10 city has 1000 atheist followers, 2000 Islam followers, and 2000 Christianity followers, the tooltip will show "4 Islam, 4 Christianity".
Finally, an Inquisitor or Great Prophet resets the follower count for all religions other than its religion to ZERO. You can see how this becomes the only feasible way to flip a city that has been receiving religious pressure from nearby cities for hundreds of turns. A city could have a Christianity follower count of 20,000. A Muslim Missionary adding 1,000 followers of Islam will result in 1/20th of the follower count being Islam, which definitely won't show up as a single citizen following Islam in a city under size 20.
Every city has an invisible "follower count" for each religion (which includes pantheons and "no religion" aka "atheism").
Citizens start as atheists.
If city A has Islam and city B is within 10 spaces of it, the religious pressure from A to B is +6 (on normal speed), which means that city B's follower count for Islam will increase by 6 per turn.
Using a Missionary's "spread religion" will add its strength (usually 1000, but can be depleted by Unwelcome Evangelists or increased by an enhancer belief) in followers to that city.
I forget the exact formula of followers to citizens (which is sort of like asking how many "atheist followers" a city has). I think it's 100 followers per citizen.
So if I'm right about it being 100, if a city has 1 population, it will have "no religion" until some religion's follower count passes 100, when the city will switch to that religion.
I think, whenever a city grows in population, the existing follower counts are scaled upward. So if a newly founded city starts with 100 atheists, gets up to 24 Christians from four turns of +6 pressure, then the city grows to size 2, the city's follower count will now be 200 atheists, 48 Christians.
The citizens of a city are proportionally divided among the religions with non-zero follower counts. So if a size-10 city has 1000 atheist followers, 2000 Islam followers, and 2000 Christianity followers, the tooltip will show "4 Islam, 4 Christianity".
Finally, an Inquisitor or Great Prophet resets the follower count for all religions other than its religion to ZERO. You can see how this becomes the only feasible way to flip a city that has been receiving religious pressure from nearby cities for hundreds of turns. A city could have a Christianity follower count of 20,000. A Muslim Missionary adding 1,000 followers of Islam will result in 1/20th of the follower count being Islam, which definitely won't show up as a single citizen following Islam in a city under size 20.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Almost correct.
Whenever city population increases, it gets 100 more 'follower pressure' for the majority religion only.
so 100 'atheist' 24 Christian would grow to 200 'atheist', 24 Christian
[other effects.. you get a bunch of free follower points in each of your cities when you found your pantheon, and a bunch of free follower points in your holy city when you found a religion... and all pantheon follower points are lost on city capture]
_alphaBeta_
King
I thought I understood how this worked until reading this thread. 
I've read the very helpful Spreading and Defending Your Religion article, but it doesn't go into the exact pressure math.
Before walking through many examples, and as a gauge to my understanding, is it fair to say that missionaries become less and less effective as the game goes on? This is assuming that no prophets or other units that remove followers/pressure are being used.
Another clarity question: If you have a city that has the entire population following your religion, are you technically making your city more resilient to foreign religions by continuing to spread religion to the city with missionaries? Not looking for strategy here, just number crunching.
Are missionaries simply delivering 1000 pressure per spread?
I've read the very helpful Spreading and Defending Your Religion article, but it doesn't go into the exact pressure math.Before walking through many examples, and as a gauge to my understanding, is it fair to say that missionaries become less and less effective as the game goes on? This is assuming that no prophets or other units that remove followers/pressure are being used.
Another clarity question: If you have a city that has the entire population following your religion, are you technically making your city more resilient to foreign religions by continuing to spread religion to the city with missionaries? Not looking for strategy here, just number crunching.
Are missionaries simply delivering 1000 pressure per spread?
Biologist
Emperor
Thanks for posting this info here. I only ever had a vague idea as to why missionaries are useless for converting cities with entrenched religions.
