Boris Gudenuf
Deity
Being a general discussion of ways to make Religion work better in Civ VII, and even make it 'stretch' from one Age to the other.
Right now, Civ VII as a design concept went out of its way to remove as many 'fiddly' units as it could - no more individual Great People wandering the map, no more Workers or Governors - but it kept Missionaries with an absolutely Mega Fiddly mechanic. In fact, the game makes Missionaries completely Unreal Units - like cockroaches, they are immune to enemy missionaries, armies, diplomacy, influence, gold, natural disasters or nuclear wars. When everything else in the game has been reduced to smoking ruins by Mega-Tornadoes and Mausoleum of Theodoric-fueled Bulgarian pillagers, missionaries will still be ambling nonchalantly over the map.
WTH?
Furthermore, everything Religion is now confined to the Exploration Age. Never mind that almost all of the major religions in the world today started in Antiquity (the only exceptions being Islam and derivatives of older religions, like Protestant Christianity, Sikhism or Ba'hai), and some of the greatest religious Monuments (Wonders) were built in the period covered by the Antiquity Age - and repurposed later, sometimes repeatedly.
Even worse, Religion in the game is all about gathering 'Relics' for a single Victory type in a single Age, and getting bonuses from converting settlements/cities - also in a single Age. There is no religious conflict, no major diplomatic or military effect from religion - even in Exploration Age, let alone in the Ages preceding or succeeding it.
Let's change all, or at least most , of that.
First, and this suggestion has been made by others in other Threads, let's follow through on Civ VII's design philosophy and remove Missionaries.
Instead, conversion and spread of religion should be through Influence. And Influence should be obtainable from constructing Religious Institutions, represented by buildings, Quarters, and Wonders. - And some of those should be constructable in Antiquity, even though using the Influence for specific Religious purposes should still be confined to Exploration.
Using Influence to Influence Religion.
In Exploration Age, once you have 'researched' Piety, you can found a Religion by building a Mother Temple and start using Influence to spread or Upgrade that Religion. As now, each Religion starts with 2 'Beliefs' and Influence can be used later to add more Beliefs to it. The settlement with the Mother Temple in it automatically gets converted to your new Religion.
Influence can be used to spread that religion to other settlements inside and outside your Civilization.
(The following figures are for illustration only - actual numbers should be confirmed by Play Testing to find totals that allow a playable game for both Human and AI)
The amount of lnfluence required to convert a settlement to your religion depends on:
Size of the settlement in population numbers
Distance of the settlement from the nearest settlement already converted to your religion
Any other already-established Religion in the Settlement
Any structures in the settlement already associated with another religion
So, for instance, a settlement 15 tiles from the nearest settlement following your Great Om religion with a population of 10 might take 150 Influence to convert. If the nearest settlement had your Mother Temple in it, the Influence total might be halved - to 75.
BUT if that settlement already had another religion in it, the total might be increased by 50%, to 225 or 113. And if that settlement had, say, a Temple in it with the other religion, the amount would increase by a multiplier of the total population, say, by Pop x 5 or +50 Influence.
But, some religious structures would provide Influence (see below) - in this case, a catch-all for Religious Pressure, although it would join the basic Influence 'Pool' and also be useful for diplomatic and espionage actions - just as Religion did influence such actions throughout history.
And there are religious structures in Antiquity that should also provide Influence, so there would be some very good game play reasons for building Religious Structures in Antiquity, even though you cannot found an in-game Religion yet.
Converting any settlement back to your original Religion should always be cheaper than converting 'foreigners' - this will need testing to find a balance, but from 2/3 to 1/2 the total Influence required to originally adopt your founded religion or for the foreign religion's influence to convert your settlement.
Antiquity Age Religious Structures (giving Influence points):
Altar: +1 Influence, +1 Happiness; +1 Happiness from adjacent Non-Religious Wonder, +1 Influence from adjacent Religious Wonder
Religious Wonders (Antiquity)
Angkor Wat
Great Stele
Mundo Perdido
Pyramid of the Sun
Sanchi Stupa
- each adds +1 Influence plus any adjacencies with Altars in Antiquity Age.
In addition, many of the buildings in the Unique Quarters of the Antiquity Civilizations are religious in nature. The Greek, Roman, Mauryan, Egyptian and Mayan Quarters should, only when completed, provide +1 Influence also.
Exploration Age Religious Structures:
Temple: As now, 1 Relic slot, +4 Happiness, but additionally +1 Influence. IF the first, or Mother Temple built, +2 Influence.
Additionally, and in addition to any Unique Quarter available, any Civ can build a Religious Quarter based on a Temple built in a settlement. The other structure in this Quarter would be either an Antiquity Age Altar or Monument.
A Religious Quarter doubles the resistance to conversion provided by a Temple alone and provides +3 Influence total in addition to any other effects from surviving Altar, Monument and Temple in the settlement.
A Religious Quarter adds one Relic slot to the 1 slot from the Temple
NOTE: The Unique Quarters of the Majapahit and Abbasid Exploration Civs contain religious structures, and therefore when completed as Quarters, also provide the +3 Influence and the +2 total Relic slots of a generic Religious Quarter. Note also that these can be built in addition to a generic Religious Quarter in one of these Civilizations' settlements. (Yes, these two Civs have now become Religious Civilizations. Get over it.)
Religious Wonders (Exploration):
Borobudur
Brihadeeswarar Temple
Hale o Keawe
Notre Dame
Rila Monastery
Serpent Mound
Shwedagon Zedi Daw
Each of these has +2 Relic slots and are the only Wonders with (Religious) Relic slots
Each of these also provides +1 (Religious) Influence AND +1 Influence to any adjacent Religious Quarter or Temple
Religious Relics - thoughts
Basic Concept: Instead of largely collecting relics from Civics without regard to anything or anybody else in the game, Relics should come from specific religious constructions and activities.
Any Altar (intact or pillaged), or any Religious Wonder built in Antiquity Age each provide 1 Relic only to the first Religion founded in that settlement by anybody.
Each Religious Quarter completed provides 1 Relic to any religion prevailing in the settlement when the Quarter is completed. IF the settlement has no religion or competing religions (as in, one each in Rural and Urban areas) no Relic is provided.
Any Relics in a settlement that is captured or changes hands as a result of revolt or peace agreement are Lost.
Relics can be moved to an empty Relic slot in another settlement following the same religion, but this will cause an immediate -15 Happiness for every Relic lost in the losing settlement. If that settlement changes religions, it regains half the Happiness (People traditionally really did not like losing Relics or Religious icons).
Religion - effects and near-random thoughts
Religious actions have Diplomatic and potentially military effects.
Converting a foreign capital, a foreign city (not necessarily a town), taking a Relic - should all have serious negative diplomatic modifiers. Not, perhaps, as antagonistic as Ideology in the Modern Age, but not ignorable either.
Having the same Religion in your capitals should provide a positive diplomatic bonus between the 2 Civs.
Being of different Religions in your capitals (an easily-identified mechanism) should potentially provide military effects on the units of an army: possibly this could be implemented as a Religious Belief available that provides a Fanaticism effect to all units only against units of a different religion. This, of course, would disappear if one capital converted to the other religion, and therefore make religious conversions part of military strategy.
Converting to another Religion should be an option in Peace making: a Civ might even offer to convert instead of giving up a settlement, an offer particularly appealing the a Religious Civilization (see above: Majapahits or Abbasids)
Religious conversion should be part or a potential part of bringing IPs under your control. Using Influence or Trade to convert an IP or City State when it had no previous in-game Religion should have a very positive effect on converting it to your political/diplomatic control, whereas an IP that already has another religion will resist and resent conversion attempts and any attempt to befriend or control it.
Last: The total number of Relics required to reach Legacy goals in Exploration Age Culture path may have to be changed based on the different amounts of Relics available and Relic slots obtainable. This will also need play-testing to avoid another Legacy Path made unplayable by imbalance between what is required and what is possible in the game.
All of this is only a set of suggestions for how Religion in Civ VII can be made a bit more relevant for both Antiquity and Exploration Ages without changing the separate Age structure, and also remove the mindless missionary maneuvering present in the game now.
Right now, Civ VII as a design concept went out of its way to remove as many 'fiddly' units as it could - no more individual Great People wandering the map, no more Workers or Governors - but it kept Missionaries with an absolutely Mega Fiddly mechanic. In fact, the game makes Missionaries completely Unreal Units - like cockroaches, they are immune to enemy missionaries, armies, diplomacy, influence, gold, natural disasters or nuclear wars. When everything else in the game has been reduced to smoking ruins by Mega-Tornadoes and Mausoleum of Theodoric-fueled Bulgarian pillagers, missionaries will still be ambling nonchalantly over the map.
WTH?
Furthermore, everything Religion is now confined to the Exploration Age. Never mind that almost all of the major religions in the world today started in Antiquity (the only exceptions being Islam and derivatives of older religions, like Protestant Christianity, Sikhism or Ba'hai), and some of the greatest religious Monuments (Wonders) were built in the period covered by the Antiquity Age - and repurposed later, sometimes repeatedly.
Even worse, Religion in the game is all about gathering 'Relics' for a single Victory type in a single Age, and getting bonuses from converting settlements/cities - also in a single Age. There is no religious conflict, no major diplomatic or military effect from religion - even in Exploration Age, let alone in the Ages preceding or succeeding it.
Let's change all, or at least most , of that.
First, and this suggestion has been made by others in other Threads, let's follow through on Civ VII's design philosophy and remove Missionaries.
Instead, conversion and spread of religion should be through Influence. And Influence should be obtainable from constructing Religious Institutions, represented by buildings, Quarters, and Wonders. - And some of those should be constructable in Antiquity, even though using the Influence for specific Religious purposes should still be confined to Exploration.
Using Influence to Influence Religion.
In Exploration Age, once you have 'researched' Piety, you can found a Religion by building a Mother Temple and start using Influence to spread or Upgrade that Religion. As now, each Religion starts with 2 'Beliefs' and Influence can be used later to add more Beliefs to it. The settlement with the Mother Temple in it automatically gets converted to your new Religion.
Influence can be used to spread that religion to other settlements inside and outside your Civilization.
(The following figures are for illustration only - actual numbers should be confirmed by Play Testing to find totals that allow a playable game for both Human and AI)
The amount of lnfluence required to convert a settlement to your religion depends on:
Size of the settlement in population numbers
Distance of the settlement from the nearest settlement already converted to your religion
Any other already-established Religion in the Settlement
Any structures in the settlement already associated with another religion
So, for instance, a settlement 15 tiles from the nearest settlement following your Great Om religion with a population of 10 might take 150 Influence to convert. If the nearest settlement had your Mother Temple in it, the Influence total might be halved - to 75.
BUT if that settlement already had another religion in it, the total might be increased by 50%, to 225 or 113. And if that settlement had, say, a Temple in it with the other religion, the amount would increase by a multiplier of the total population, say, by Pop x 5 or +50 Influence.
But, some religious structures would provide Influence (see below) - in this case, a catch-all for Religious Pressure, although it would join the basic Influence 'Pool' and also be useful for diplomatic and espionage actions - just as Religion did influence such actions throughout history.
And there are religious structures in Antiquity that should also provide Influence, so there would be some very good game play reasons for building Religious Structures in Antiquity, even though you cannot found an in-game Religion yet.
Converting any settlement back to your original Religion should always be cheaper than converting 'foreigners' - this will need testing to find a balance, but from 2/3 to 1/2 the total Influence required to originally adopt your founded religion or for the foreign religion's influence to convert your settlement.
Antiquity Age Religious Structures (giving Influence points):
Altar: +1 Influence, +1 Happiness; +1 Happiness from adjacent Non-Religious Wonder, +1 Influence from adjacent Religious Wonder
Religious Wonders (Antiquity)
Angkor Wat
Great Stele
Mundo Perdido
Pyramid of the Sun
Sanchi Stupa
- each adds +1 Influence plus any adjacencies with Altars in Antiquity Age.
In addition, many of the buildings in the Unique Quarters of the Antiquity Civilizations are religious in nature. The Greek, Roman, Mauryan, Egyptian and Mayan Quarters should, only when completed, provide +1 Influence also.
Exploration Age Religious Structures:
Temple: As now, 1 Relic slot, +4 Happiness, but additionally +1 Influence. IF the first, or Mother Temple built, +2 Influence.
Additionally, and in addition to any Unique Quarter available, any Civ can build a Religious Quarter based on a Temple built in a settlement. The other structure in this Quarter would be either an Antiquity Age Altar or Monument.
A Religious Quarter doubles the resistance to conversion provided by a Temple alone and provides +3 Influence total in addition to any other effects from surviving Altar, Monument and Temple in the settlement.
A Religious Quarter adds one Relic slot to the 1 slot from the Temple
NOTE: The Unique Quarters of the Majapahit and Abbasid Exploration Civs contain religious structures, and therefore when completed as Quarters, also provide the +3 Influence and the +2 total Relic slots of a generic Religious Quarter. Note also that these can be built in addition to a generic Religious Quarter in one of these Civilizations' settlements. (Yes, these two Civs have now become Religious Civilizations. Get over it.)
Religious Wonders (Exploration):
Borobudur
Brihadeeswarar Temple
Hale o Keawe
Notre Dame
Rila Monastery
Serpent Mound
Shwedagon Zedi Daw
Each of these has +2 Relic slots and are the only Wonders with (Religious) Relic slots
Each of these also provides +1 (Religious) Influence AND +1 Influence to any adjacent Religious Quarter or Temple
Religious Relics - thoughts
Basic Concept: Instead of largely collecting relics from Civics without regard to anything or anybody else in the game, Relics should come from specific religious constructions and activities.
Any Altar (intact or pillaged), or any Religious Wonder built in Antiquity Age each provide 1 Relic only to the first Religion founded in that settlement by anybody.
Each Religious Quarter completed provides 1 Relic to any religion prevailing in the settlement when the Quarter is completed. IF the settlement has no religion or competing religions (as in, one each in Rural and Urban areas) no Relic is provided.
Any Relics in a settlement that is captured or changes hands as a result of revolt or peace agreement are Lost.
Relics can be moved to an empty Relic slot in another settlement following the same religion, but this will cause an immediate -15 Happiness for every Relic lost in the losing settlement. If that settlement changes religions, it regains half the Happiness (People traditionally really did not like losing Relics or Religious icons).
Religion - effects and near-random thoughts
Religious actions have Diplomatic and potentially military effects.
Converting a foreign capital, a foreign city (not necessarily a town), taking a Relic - should all have serious negative diplomatic modifiers. Not, perhaps, as antagonistic as Ideology in the Modern Age, but not ignorable either.
Having the same Religion in your capitals should provide a positive diplomatic bonus between the 2 Civs.
Being of different Religions in your capitals (an easily-identified mechanism) should potentially provide military effects on the units of an army: possibly this could be implemented as a Religious Belief available that provides a Fanaticism effect to all units only against units of a different religion. This, of course, would disappear if one capital converted to the other religion, and therefore make religious conversions part of military strategy.
Converting to another Religion should be an option in Peace making: a Civ might even offer to convert instead of giving up a settlement, an offer particularly appealing the a Religious Civilization (see above: Majapahits or Abbasids)
Religious conversion should be part or a potential part of bringing IPs under your control. Using Influence or Trade to convert an IP or City State when it had no previous in-game Religion should have a very positive effect on converting it to your political/diplomatic control, whereas an IP that already has another religion will resist and resent conversion attempts and any attempt to befriend or control it.
Last: The total number of Relics required to reach Legacy goals in Exploration Age Culture path may have to be changed based on the different amounts of Relics available and Relic slots obtainable. This will also need play-testing to avoid another Legacy Path made unplayable by imbalance between what is required and what is possible in the game.
All of this is only a set of suggestions for how Religion in Civ VII can be made a bit more relevant for both Antiquity and Exploration Ages without changing the separate Age structure, and also remove the mindless missionary maneuvering present in the game now.
