What should a "unit" represent?

[MadScot]

Mr Black: Actually, those 'other guys' would be REMFs

Basically a unit is whatever size fits your playing style. For me that's usually brigade-sized units - wings for most aircraft types, single units for larger ships and squadrons for the smaller units, with older military units being "a couple of thousand guys".

I say it depends on your style, because anyone building a small military might think of the units as larger, anyone with 100s of MA probably will think of each as a battalion or smaller.

If you can be bothered you can try to deduce unit sizes based on population sizes of cities and the number of military a city can support (or the number of draftees you can have). I did it once, but it's a bit of a fool's errand.

VC: If a carrier unit is a group of carriers, how come they can only base a total of 4 air units, which you say would be 4 aircraft??? More realistic is that each carrier unit is a single CV (escorts if you like, though not many, since a carrier is a weak surface unit) and each air unit about 10-20 - which would give something like 60 total aircraft per carrier, which is close enough.

 

[Evie]

So, we're fools because we don't accept your irrealistic vision of thing?

Provide me a *SINGLE* piece of evidence that point at the stupid notion that a carrier represent many carriers.

What points against it :

1)Ease to build many carriers. Considering these are obviously modern (not WW II) carriers, no nations could field more than 5-6 groups of carrier, and THAT is only the Unitd States, and only assuming 2 carriers per group.

It's way too easy to field way more carriers.

2)A carrier unit carry 4 air units. A air unit represent a squadron. Explain to me, oh great one, how the heck you arrive at the conclusion that a group of more than one carrier would only be able to deploy 4 squadrons? (heck, 4 squadrons is *SMALL* for even *one* carrier today - the american one carry 80-100 planes).

So, where's the evidence to your "It's obviously a squadron of many carriers!" theory that makes us fool because we don't believe in it?

 

[Vietcong]

i dint say it was 4 air craft!
i said that each aircrafht is a squadren.. (verying in size) not 1!!

every holds 4! so a small sized squadren for every carier so about 4 cariers... and the carier unit includes escorts, thats how it has a defens

 

[Evie]

A carrier, in reality, carry *several* squadrons. Each of those squadrons has a *specific* duty. That means that, for example, you will have fighter squadrons, attack squadrons, ASW squadrons, etc. These squadrons vary in size depending on the mission, but even the largest ones (fighters) tend to have about 10-12 crafts.

What you refer to as "squadren" is in reality a *CARRIER AIR WING*, representing the ensemble of all air forces available on a carrier. This combine all fighter, bomber and other units.

Obviously, since your air units in Civ are either "fighters" or "bombers", not a combination of both, they do *NOT* represent air wings.

We must thus conclude they represent squadrons, and that as a direct correlation, a carrier represent *a single carrier*, possibly with some few support vessels, certainly not a squadron of multiple carriers.

Not to mention that carriers battle groups more often than not include a *single* carrier these days anyway. When you have more than one carrier on the playing field, it'S because you have more than one carrier battle group. We're far from the day of the Second War where the Navy's carriers attacked the Mariannas in fleet of 10-20, more even, of them. Or even those of Pearl Harbors were a fleet of six carriers operated together.

 

[Schee]

a air unit is just one air craft

i said that each aircrafht is a squadren.. (verying in size) not 1!!

Oh and of course a carrier in the game is one carrier...
Squadrons have no more than 12 aircrafts, and the carriers hold between 20 and 100 aircrafts, so one carrier with 4 squadrons make sense to me

 

[trumpeteer]

I think a Carrier represents one carrier. Whether or not you choose to include escorts is optional, but a carrier is its own fleet.

 

[Perfection]

Well they only look like on guy...

 

[RX2000]

I think the stealth bomber unit probably only represents 1 plane. It could be 10-20, but I doubt it. In rl, the US doesnt even have all that many stealth bombers, considering you can build a whole aircraft carrier for what it costs to build 2 B-2 bombers.

 

[dreamdeferred]

I'd say it'd depend on the unit type and age. For instance, a warrior unit would probably only represent a few dozen loosely organized warriors, while a cavalry unit would be a few thousand. A MA unit would be a dozen or so tanks and crew and support staff.
As for ships, I'd say each one unit represents a single ship, except maybe destroyers, which could represent a small squadron of destroyers. Of course, they could each represent a task force. I don't know much about military, but this is what it seems to me.

 

[TheBoogieMan]

Could someone explain to me how you can build and equip a Warrior in 10 turns (which translates into 500-100 years), and then have it represent a "few dozen loosely organized warriors"? This game is game, not a historical simulation. You should be able to send a militia or a "warrior" virtually right away, even at the very beginning of your civilization. It's just a game, really. No need for real-life parallels on this level.

 

[dreamdeferred]

Good point. I have a problem with losing track of time while i'm playing civ. I'm sure most people here can sympathize.

 

[PritomD]

well i think foot-troops its like 10k soldiers...cause isnt one worker=one citizen face=10,000 people?

 

[Coorae]

units can 'heal' to get all of their dead back, even on the other side of the world in the tundra.

so dont try to make sense of it.

 

[JonathanValjean]

I usually consider a unit to represent around 20 soldiers. So, what would you call that? (Yes, I admit my military ignorance...)

 

[MadScot]

@JV:
20 is somewhere between a squad or section - generally about 8-10 men in an infantry unit - and a platoon, which is normally 3 or 4 squads/sections and would be about 30 men. Of course wartime measures often result in understrength units, and such as e.g. cavalry are smaller units than infantry units of equivalent 'military size' if you count the numbers of men. (a tank 'squad' would be one tank, usually with 4 men onboard, for example)

@PritomD
the relationship between citizens and population is not linear - so there's no easy way to use that to determine unit sizes. Plus except for drafting units don't consume population, so there's not necessarily a direct link between population and unit size.

 

[Junzi Nicuzn]

I make-believe that a "unit" represents a...unit. An unknown, appropriate number of troops made up of 2 (conscript), 3 (regular), 4 (vetern), or 5 (elite) "groups"

My Exceptions:
1. All naval units are just one.
2. All air units are a squadron of five (regardless of veteran status)
3. All missiles are one missile.

I realize this is not realistic, thats just my mind-set in the game

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

When I play, I just call each unit a division. I don't care how many units are actually in the "division". It can be a division of 100 Spearman, a division of 1000 Cavalry, a divisionof 20 Modern Armor, or it could be a division of 300 000 flying chicken for all I care

 

[Beanzy]

In the ancient age, I like to think of it in the Post-Marian Roman military terms. AKA a conscript is a Contubernium (8 men), a regular is a Century (containing 10 Contuberniums, therefore, 80 men), a veteran is a Cohort (6 centuries, 60 contuberniums, 480 men), and finally, an elite is a legion (10 cohorts, one slightly larger than the others, meaning a total of about 5000 men).

I've always liked that system the best. It seems most realistic (to me at least).