Zachriel
Kaiser
For builders, I think you are right. For warmongers, try Persian. Nothing like Immortals to raise the confidence levels.
What's the best civ for newbies?
- Thread starter stwils
- Start date
For builders, I think you are right. For warmongers, try Persian. Nothing like Immortals to raise the confidence levels.
Daaraa
King
I just figured that a new person wouldn't know if they wanted to be a warmonger or a builder.
I do agree with you though.
Daaraa
King
Originally posted by Civddict
Nobody likes France but me
They have great potential, late in game I don't know what to do with so much cash
It's all the pink
My wife likes France and China the best. Cash has always been her problem though...
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
2 turns?
Not on the higher levels. I've seen it take 7 turns of anarchy if I make a late change to democracy (usually due to waiting on completion of a key wonder). On average I see 4-5 turns.
The power of culture should never be underrated in this game. Many of the warmongers here who seem to complain a bit about culture flipping would do well to use religious civs and rush temples.
Personally I think Industrious is the best trait.
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
Originally posted by Civddict
Nobody likes France but me
They have great potential, late in game I don't know what to do with so much cash
IIRC in the early days last fall right after release, many folks on this board and 'poly were convinced that France was the best civ to play.
A strong upcheck in my opinion on the versatility of the game. Someone actually said good things about the American civ in this thread. If we can find a positive for the English then I will have seen it all.
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
I would personally like for this set of questions to die a horrible an permanent death, because there is not one answer that is correct.
The best civ and strategy depends on the combination of how these two things work together with the starting terrain.
The best examples I know of in the game are the Greeks in mountainous terrain versus the Iroquois on grasslands and plains. Because of the civ traits and the UUs, the greeks are virtually undefeatable in mountains while on open terrain the Iroqs have the expansionist scouts, cheap temples, and the early Mounted warrior that lets them rule the game. If you switch the positions, you take away the advantages of the two civs and they can be hampered and victimized by other opponents.
For newbies, I would choose civs that have at least one of the following three traits:
Religious - the cheap temples (30 vs 60) early will lead the newbies to build culture accidently even if they do not really understand the reasons for it. The quick passage through anarachy is a benefit to newbies because it just reduces the lost time and risk.
Industrious - the double speed workers help to make up for the fact that most newbies do not understand how to use workers effectively (particularly in Despotism but still later in the mid to late game). Some of this gain is wasted by newbies because they cannot get around the 3 divided by 2 equals 2 issue.
Scientific - because of the instant start with defensive spearman and access to cheap libraries (40 vs 80). The free tech at the age change is only of marginal value because it is usually not the tech you really want or need.
For most newbies, having a river in one of the first two cities is very important. Rivers can be bad for mobility, good for defense, good to irrigate plains and flood plains, baaaaaaaaaaaaad to distract newbies into irrigating grassland, and greaaaaaaaaaat for extra $$$ from adjacant squares. The extra gold is what most newbies don't know about or forget and this feature is actuall what lets them stay competitive in the games.
These trait combinations are what make the Egyptians, Babs, and Persia so great for most people new to the game.
Everything in the game is won or lost by how you assess the situation of terrain and opponents and then how you play the first 100 turns.
A good trick for newbies, is to play standard rules and generate a game and then save that game before making even the first move. Then find some other people to play this game in parallel with you but only up until 1000BC and then compare strategies. The winner of the fast start competition is the person with the highest total of territory + population + workers + culture. Compare notes and do it again. Play these fast start games until you can do them well on Regent and Monarch and then you can worry about the rest of the game.
There are enough hidden and undocumented gameplay issues in the early game, that you really cannot play well until you discover these features anyway, regardless of which civ you play as.
The best civ and strategy depends on the combination of how these two things work together with the starting terrain.
The best examples I know of in the game are the Greeks in mountainous terrain versus the Iroquois on grasslands and plains. Because of the civ traits and the UUs, the greeks are virtually undefeatable in mountains while on open terrain the Iroqs have the expansionist scouts, cheap temples, and the early Mounted warrior that lets them rule the game. If you switch the positions, you take away the advantages of the two civs and they can be hampered and victimized by other opponents.
For newbies, I would choose civs that have at least one of the following three traits:
Religious - the cheap temples (30 vs 60) early will lead the newbies to build culture accidently even if they do not really understand the reasons for it. The quick passage through anarachy is a benefit to newbies because it just reduces the lost time and risk.
Industrious - the double speed workers help to make up for the fact that most newbies do not understand how to use workers effectively (particularly in Despotism but still later in the mid to late game). Some of this gain is wasted by newbies because they cannot get around the 3 divided by 2 equals 2 issue.
Scientific - because of the instant start with defensive spearman and access to cheap libraries (40 vs 80). The free tech at the age change is only of marginal value because it is usually not the tech you really want or need.
For most newbies, having a river in one of the first two cities is very important. Rivers can be bad for mobility, good for defense, good to irrigate plains and flood plains, baaaaaaaaaaaaad to distract newbies into irrigating grassland, and greaaaaaaaaaat for extra $$$ from adjacant squares. The extra gold is what most newbies don't know about or forget and this feature is actuall what lets them stay competitive in the games.
These trait combinations are what make the Egyptians, Babs, and Persia so great for most people new to the game.
Everything in the game is won or lost by how you assess the situation of terrain and opponents and then how you play the first 100 turns.
A good trick for newbies, is to play standard rules and generate a game and then save that game before making even the first move. Then find some other people to play this game in parallel with you but only up until 1000BC and then compare strategies. The winner of the fast start competition is the person with the highest total of territory + population + workers + culture. Compare notes and do it again. Play these fast start games until you can do them well on Regent and Monarch and then you can worry about the rest of the game.
There are enough hidden and undocumented gameplay issues in the early game, that you really cannot play well until you discover these features anyway, regardless of which civ you play as.
stwils
Emperor
Great idea, Cracker. I know just the friend to do this with.
Thanks for your other thoughts, too. Very helpful.
In fact, the responses on the thread have been very helpful to me.
stwils
Thanks for your other thoughts, too. Very helpful.
In fact, the responses on the thread have been very helpful to me.
stwils
PinkIronclad
Chieftain
When i get Republic or Monarchy I irrigate Grassland and mine Plains to get a shield bonus. I hope im not the only one who practice this strategy.Tell me if I'm wrong but that's what we should always do.
BTW the best civ for a newbie is Egypt.
Persia.. they are strong but if you're newbie don't go to war too often.
But immortals are both good on defence and attack.
And I love War Chariots.
I thought their stats were 1-1-2.
I noticed I were wrong during my last game.^^
No need to build normal horseman.. War chariots have the same stats than Horseman plus they can be produced more quickly.
They can't go on moutains and jungles but sometimes it dosen't matter.
France is also a good civ for newbies even tho they don't have the Religious trait. There are many other civs that have been mentionned wich are good for newbies.
The key to be a good player is to use your workers wisely and to know the secrets of a good diplomacy.Manage the happyness of the cities and build the appropriate things at a particula situation. For exemple: city size 10 , 5 happy citizens 1 content citizen and 4 unhappycitizens needs a cathedral or a collosseum, but dosen't need a market place if you only own 2 luxuries.
Arrian
Warlord
From a quick glance at this page, what I'm gonna say is repetative:
Egypt. Then again, a newbie would most likely be playing on a lower difficulty level, so I might suggest Persia or Babylon.
-Arrian
p.s. Wow, just read Cracker's post. I guess I agree, huh?
Egypt. Then again, a newbie would most likely be playing on a lower difficulty level, so I might suggest Persia or Babylon.
-Arrian
p.s. Wow, just read Cracker's post. I guess I agree, huh?
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
You can also post the game file as a quick start challenge game for other people to try. If I were doing this, I would read a few succession game threads first and then learn to keep a simple word editor open in the background so you can take notes as you play. Then you compare notes with other players. You can just tab in and out of the game to take quick notes as you go.
I think you will find you hate some start positions in combo with certain civs and in other cases you feel like the rebirth of Machiavelli.
Good luck,
cracker
Gil Favor's Sidekick
So FuschiaMerrimac,
Lets look at what you do from the big picture and see if you still think you are making the best choice.
In despotism, mining and roading grasslands produces a 2/1/1 tile without other bonuses. Irrigating and roading plains gets you to a 2/1/1 but takes 4 standard worker turns instead of 9 (5 and 10 if you count the inital move into the square).
If you irrigate and road the grassland in depostism then you will get a 3/0/1 tile later in the game, but initially the tile will show no benefit for the 6 turns or worker effort that you expended. Look at this like putting $600 in a safety deposit box versus puuting the same $600 into invetsment that paid dividends right away.
In Monarchy or Republic, if you do as you propose and you have one grassland tile and one plains tile (you just swap the improvements arround form the recommended solution) then you will get a 3/0/1 plus a 1/2/1 for a total of 4/2/2. This is just the same as the total value of the recommended approach of "mine grass/irrigate plains" which gives you a 2/1/1 plus a 2/1/1 for the 4/2/2 total. The effort is the same and initially you might think it makes no difference.
The difference comes into play in a Golden Age and/or military mobilization where you get one extra shield from any tile that already produces one shield. In your example, you would get no bonus from the irrigated grassland square since it does not produce a shield outside of the GA or Mobilized Economy. So you would only jump to a 4/3/3 total during the Golden Age. If I was your opponent and I played the recommended strategy, then I would get a 4/4/3 benefit from the golden age and this would put me ahead of you by 33%. Across a typical medieval civ of 15 towns and cities, that difference would be 45 to 60 shields per turn for 20 turns.
The impact is also present when you mobilize for war if you need to use this effect.
You decide.
PinkIronclad
Chieftain
I said " When " I get republic or monarchy.
Of course I mine grassland in despotism
But when I change government, I change some terrain improvment that I have done in Despotism to get more shield/food bonus.
Oh, and no matter the government, I always mine a grassland that experiment a +1 shield bonus, unless if my city really needs extra food ( surrounded by lots of moutains)
It is sad that i have some trouble speaking english
I can't always express what I want to say.. At least I try.. I agree with cracker's assessment of which gov to play. Think of which you wish fits your play style or a charateristic you like and build your own strategy around that charateristic.
For me, I played civ 2 where I would build the statue of liberty, change to fundamentalism, start my military conquest and build the UN latter to enforce my iron will. This is the play style I loved in civ 2 and wanted to make a strat work for civ 3.
This required me to play a religious civ and militaristic civ. I had played greek and romans previously so I had learned the mechanics of the game but I was not having the fun in the way I wished to. =)
This is a *brief* essay on my strat I developed. It is prepatch play on monarch level using a japaneese civ. I dont want to say this is the best but it gives me enjoyment to crush my enemy under my boot.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27213
*edit* just wanted to add that indians can make a great choice. They are religious and you can sell off iron, horses and luxaries since they get temples and cathedrals which will make people happy. You can use this cash to buy coloseums and market places. Once the 20 turns have ended, you will have paid for these key buildings and you dont renew the luxaries you have dispensed....
For me, I played civ 2 where I would build the statue of liberty, change to fundamentalism, start my military conquest and build the UN latter to enforce my iron will. This is the play style I loved in civ 2 and wanted to make a strat work for civ 3.
This required me to play a religious civ and militaristic civ. I had played greek and romans previously so I had learned the mechanics of the game but I was not having the fun in the way I wished to. =)
This is a *brief* essay on my strat I developed. It is prepatch play on monarch level using a japaneese civ. I dont want to say this is the best but it gives me enjoyment to crush my enemy under my boot.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27213
*edit* just wanted to add that indians can make a great choice. They are religious and you can sell off iron, horses and luxaries since they get temples and cathedrals which will make people happy. You can use this cash to buy coloseums and market places. Once the 20 turns have ended, you will have paid for these key buildings and you dont renew the luxaries you have dispensed....
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