Whats the use of Carriers

BlackAdder60

Very naughty boy!
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Feb 18, 2004
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Malmö, Sweden
I am an occasional Civ-2 player and have built an aircraft carrier once, but I found it to be utterly useless, I have found fighters and bombers too to be useless, though choppers are usefull. The same goes in my experience for Battleships.

Is there any seasoned player who can recommend airpower in Civ-2 (other than choppers) or can recommend strategies where airpower is used systematically?
 
Carriers are a big "What if" in Civ II. The AI has around 90 billion cruise missles so I'd recommend either airbases are cities as your "carriers"
 
Stack them with an AEGIS cruiser and you wouldn't have to worry about missiles anymore.
 
I was once in a game where massive air power helped turn a bloody war of attrition into probably what was my easiest conquest of the time. I think it's in the Stories and Tales section, with a few more details.

Also, if you have the patience to set up for one, air power plays a role in performing a single-turn "blitz" of an entire enemy empire by taking advantage of his railroads (which we all know the AI builds in excess), or so I've read somewhere on this site.
 
Originally posted by covok48
Carriers are a big "What if" in Civ II. The AI has around 90 billion cruise missles so I'd recommend either airbases are cities as your "carriers"

STILL dont see the use of carriers! Better build the "SAM-battery" and "SDI-defence" city improvements than wasting resources on carriers/fighters.

ALSO I have *sofar* not been troubled by missile threats because I used to lead over my opponents by a wide margin. Of course I havent plyed on the higher difficulty levels yet.
 
Originally posted by Dark Ascendant
Stack them with an AEGIS cruiser and you wouldn't have to worry about missiles anymore.

SOO? I should waste resources on carriers/fighters so that I can build AEGIS cruisers to defend carriers I dont know what use to put them to?

I am not being a smartaleck, but I am hoping for a good strategy to justify carriers/fighters/bombers.
 
Originally posted by Specialist290
I was once in a game where massive air power helped turn a bloody war of attrition into probably what was my easiest conquest of the time. I think it's in the Stories and Tales section, with a few more details...

So airpower helped you *ONCE* of the many times you played.
Is there any consistent strategy to use them every time, or at least *ONE* strategy that leads to victory (most of the times) ?
 
Well, I usually finish off the last civs with vet stealth fighters and a combination of paratroopers and helicopters to capture the cities. That's a quick and effective strategy based solely on airforce.:)

Unless you have a lot of cities spread out all over the map and cities within air-range of your enemies, you need a way to get your airforce there. Especially on large maps. Carriers are in these cases useful for airforce transportation.
 
Sth Fighters are extreamly usefull, especialy in democracy. If you don't play demo, you first aren't realising the mega tech rate that will get you to stelth, or the importance of sth fighters to keep your citisens content. Sth Fighters rule!! So you need carriers to move them where you want them. Sth fighter airstrikes are awsom, but you need carriers to do it.
 
Originally posted by funxus
Well, I usually finish off the last civs with vet stealth fighters and a combination of paratroopers and helicopters to capture the cities. That's a quick and effective strategy based solely on airforce.:)

Unless you have a lot of cities spread out all over the map and cities within air-range of your enemies, you need a way to get your airforce there. Especially on large maps. Carriers are in these cases useful for airforce transportation.

You play for victory by conquest then!
I play for victory by landing on AC.
My strategy used to be to build up as many cities that I can as fast as I can, the bigger Civ the more money/research/shields does it produce.
 
Originally posted by Prof. Garfield
Sth Fighters are extreamly usefull, especialy in democracy. If you don't play demo, you first aren't realising the mega tech rate that will get you to stelth, or the importance of sth fighters to keep your citisens content. Sth Fighters rule!! So you need carriers to move them where you want them. Sth fighter airstrikes are awsom, but you need carriers to do it.

That would explain why I havent used them. I usually go for communism. Love that policestate approach. I have often wished there would be another government form like fascism or militarism with permanent marshall law in *ALL* my cities. Hehe!!
 
I use aircraft carriers when I am playing on a large map with lots and islands and continents and lots of ocean. If the civ I'm at war with is at a great distance from me, I send a naval/air conquest. My destroyers, AEGIS cruisers, battleships, etc. go ahead and behind the aircraft carriers and transports (loaded with marines and perhaps some spies) to guard them and I move them together towards my enemy's cities. When the first wave of my navy arrives, they take out the units in the enemy coastal cities. Next my transport(s) and aircraft carrier(s) arrive. The transport brings marines to the cities where I've knocked off all the defense with my first wave of naval vessels. They take over those cities. Of course, this produces many enemy partisans at times. This is where the stlth fighters (and sometimes helicopters; I don't use them often...too vulnerable) and spies come in handy. I bribe as many partisans as I can and leave the rest to my stlth fighters (if any partisans are left) and when I'm finished I move both spies and the slth fighters into the cities I've taken over. Then, I use my stlth fighters to destroy all the units in the inland cities and let my land units take over the empty cities. I find I lose a heck of a lot less units this way. When partisans pop up around inland cities, I use spies or stlth fighters. I can sometimes take 6 or more cities in one turn using this method with little or no resistence and casualties. Of course, if a city has a coastal fortress or sam missle battery to hinder my naval and air attacks, my spy goes to work immediately to rid the city of such improvements. The only thing with this strategy is that you have to be extremely coordinated with the naval and air movements and this can take lots of practice, at least it did with me, but once you've mastered it (I still don't do it perfect ALL the time, but most of the time) it works wonderfully in conquest.
 
Most of the fighting goes to the ground units for me. The fighters are best for blocking partisans in my opinion. That's one use for carriers. They can move close to a city and save lots of movement points for the fighters.

Airbases and cities are immobile. If city A is 5 squares from city B and city C is 15 squares from City A, then fighters from city A can only reach city B, with means an attack on city C will make lots of partisans on hills and mountains that aren't connected by roads or RR. Carriers move between B and C, so there's no problem.

Also, an airbase in the middle of the ocean offers no protection for aircraft. They're easy prey for ships, missiles, fighters and bombers. If a fighter moves into an island airbase, it can't move until the next turn and could get killed by a BB. A carrier that moves next a BB could evacuate all aircaraft or attack first.

If you lose a carrier, you lose the whole stack, but it's better than leaving aircraft on little islands to be picked off.
 
It's very stupid to let your carriers be alone, always have an escort. Notice how in real life the carrier is very well protected. It's too bad that paratroopers cannot ride and paradrop from carriers...
 
Originally posted by BlackAdder60
You play for victory by conquest then!
I play for victory by landing on AC.
I seldom finish the games, but I usually play to become as powerful as possible, both tech-wise and militarily, which means I play for both conquest and AC. Not the smartest way to play Civ, but that's how I like it.:)

Where are you from btw?
 
I find the outlined strategies by "jadelicia" and "Dark Ascendant " to be intriguing and most illuminating what Sea/Air power use is concerned. Though I cant help wonder at the *price*. Building & maintaining all those carriers, escorts and aviation must take up a BIG chunk of your shield output?

Wouldnt it be more profitable to use the resources to develop your Civ instead? (No criticism intended, just wondering).

Or maybe I am playing it safe whith my "salami" strategy:

I grow gradually outward from (usually) the starting position of my 1st settler. Building new cities as close as possible to the old ones (without overlapping the city radii) thereby gardually "slicing of" (like salami slices) more and more land surrounding my civilization. Distant wars are therefore needless, I have plenty to do absorbing my neighbours.

Of course, crossing continents is an undrammatic event also. Couple of transports loaded with settlers and as many good ground combat units that I can spare, accompanied with some escortcraft, ironclads/destroyers, at most cruisers, then land and build a city on the new continent on a place prescouted by Explorer units. The combat units protect the new city while extra settlers build up the country side before building additional cities. Using 2 or 3 such cities as beachhead I continue to salami over the new neighbours, conquering only nearby enemy cities.

Due to this approach I havent seen the need to build up mighty battlefleets and airforces. All I build is Triremes/ Caravelles/ Transports as these craft can both help explore the world directly and indirectly by transporting Explorers & other units to new continents, and some lighter combat craft Ironclad/ Destroyer/ Cruiser to escort transports and patrol the coastal lines.

Since I am a bad loser (and not to experienced at Civ) I have been playing att lover difficulties so far (plan to start a game at "Prince" level, my most advanced so far. Perhaps my above tactics doesnt cut it at King/Emperor/Deity levels?

Is there some hardcore Civies who can pass judgement on my strategy.
Also I havent come across enemy partisans that "Dark Ascendant" mentions. Is that too, at the higher levels?


Reply to "funxus": I live in the city of Malmö.
 
Your strategy is adequate for early and mid game conquest/expansion, and if you are a good enough player that is all you will need. In the Modern era, though, if the AI has not been significantly reduced (and you are playing at Deity difficulty) you will find your minimalist invasion fleets decimated by waves of cruise missiles, bombers and battleships. These can be dealt with by wise use of better naval units (vet AEGIS/BB combos), but the main use suggested for Carriers is when you have a large ocean to cross with little opportunity to island-hop. Imagine trying to get to Australia from North America without being able to hop down the coast of Asia.

Partisans are activated when the enemy has either Gun+Cmn or Gue. If you have kept the AI from getting that far you would not have seen them. Try a few "Modern War"-type scenarios.
 
The conclusion I am drawing from posts in this thread and in the thread "Useless Units" is that there arent (any useless units).

Iit all depends on:
A: Your strategy

Which is decided by
B: The "terrain"
C: The difficulty level
D: and personal preferences

Thanx to all posters.
 
You have discovered the secret to civ2! You must use the right unit for the job your trying to do. Most of the units have a specific purpose and are not really needed in great numbers, sometimes not at all in a particular game.

I like to play on large maps at diety level in MGE. Most of the time, I don't build a large navy because the land masses are close enough together that a transport can make it from a coastal city on continent A to a coastal city on continent B in one turn, so no escort is neccessary.

On the very rare occasions that I have to cross a long distance at sea, I prefer to use ageis and battleships instead of carriers. The carriers and their planes are just too expensive and, besides, you still need the ageis and battleships to protect them. So why not just cut your costs and go with the ageis and battleships.

On the other hand, that is the reason Civ2 is the superior game. You choose how you want to play and what units you want to use. After all, its really all about having fun. :D
 
Ace, the point to Carriers in the situation you mentioned is extending the striking power inland. BB+AEGIS will clear the seas and absorb the cruise missiles, but the Carrier brings along (or allows mid-ocean hopping of) the airpower needed to empty the enemy cities before the troops come in contact, especially with Senate interference issues.
 
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