What's up with the Missionary Unit, and the entire Religious concept?

[primeminister99]

I don't really understand why I'd want to use the Missionary. I'm still pretty newbie-ish to Civ4, but have been playing Civ3, and Civ2 for a long time. So this concept is totally alien to me, I'd like to know what's so good about using it in your own borders? Or is it just a waste of production? And what's so good about using it another other civilizations? Will it make them more likely to be friendly towards me in a more difficult game? Will it make them more likely, should I have a stronger culture, to have their cities flip to me?

I know the concept of religion very superficially in the game, the fact that apparently having the same one as a neighbouring civilization will help relations, and apparently make my citizens more happy. But I'm pretty clueless with regards to the rest of it. Also, since I'm playing on the easiest level, just to test things out , I noticed my religious stats are a little strange. My state religion is Budism, but it's in a three-way tie for converts at only 12% with Christianity and Islam! Oddly enough Taoism is ahead of it with 22%!!! Is this a bad thing? I know I probably shouldn't have built those Islamic, Christian or Taoist buildings if I wanted Budism to be more ahead of it by way of converts (although considering how easy this level is, and how far ahead of my opponents I am, I'm not worried about loosing). But what am I missing out on by not promoting my state religion? If a situation like this were to arise during a more serious game, would I be well advised to just switch to the religion that more people have converted too?

 

[RogueNine]

The reasons to use missionaries to spread your state religion to rival empires:

1. To have them like you better. On the easier difficulty, like and dislike isn't all that important. By Monarch, if you have a different religion then someone they'll likely be Annoyed (especially Isabella, Montezuma and Gengis) and thats all it takes to start a war. So having their religion can prevent an invasion.

2. If you get a Great Prophet, you can have him build your religion's main building. This gives the city 1 gold for every city that has your religion. Spread it to enough cities, and that can equal some bigtime money, especially if you build your Wall Street there. Money is far easier to run out of on harder difficulties. Cities cost alot more in maintenance and distance by Monarch. You'll usually need something to offset those costs, weather it by massive cottage spamming or a religion. (Preferably both.)

3. You can found more then one religion, and have more then one holy city. (And shrine.) But religion spreads slower to cities that already have a religion, so Missionaries can help spread your 2nd religion faster.

 

[Wodan]

Go to the religion screen, and click on various different religions (at the top of the screen). Look at the benefits in all your cities, depending on whether the religion is in that city or not. You'll see things like +1 Happy, +1 Culture, +25% Hammers, etc. These are the benefits you'll get if you switch your State religion to whatever religion you clicked on.

What this won't tell you are the benefits of switching your State religion combined with switching your civics. Go to the Civics screen and wave your mouse over the different Religious civics (such as Organized Religion, Theocracy).

Wodan

 

[Innawerkz]

I don't really understand why I'd want to use the Missionary. I'm still pretty newbie-ish to Civ4, but have been playing Civ3, and Civ2 for a long time. So this concept is totally alien to me, I'd like to know what's so good about using it in your own borders? Or is it just a waste of production?

The reasons for using them within your own borders is substantial -

• provides +1 happy faces to the converted city
• adds +1 Culture per turn. This is handy in the earlier going to expand your borders without buiding an obelisk or library.
• grants you 'Religious Civic' bonuses - such as +25% building production (Organized Religion) or +2 XP per unit created (Theocracy) in all State Religion cities. YOUR religion needs to be there before these benefits kick in.
• provides +1 gold per turn if you have your 'Shrine' in your holy city.
• allows the construction of religion specific buildings in that city - like temples (+1 happiness) or monasteries (+10% science) and more.
• reduces the chance of your city flipping if it's your state religion. This has been read by me, but never proven. It makes sense though.

I believe these are most of the reasons why you would want to 'waste' production on a Missionary.

 

[Mathemagician13]

Another often overlooked benefit of missionaries is their use as "spies." I believe the precise conditions are that you control the holy city of a religion, and the religion is your state religion. When these conditions are met, you can see a short area around every city (including units, but not including production, you need real spies for that), that has your religion in it.

Here's a shot from a game I managed to tear myself away from at 3 AM last night:

I'm Russia, and I have spread my religion (Confucionism) by way of missionary to every non Japanese city in the game. Japan has been being mean to me, and has refused open borders since 3500 BC The upshot of this, is that without actually having units there, I can see nearly the whole globe. The applications of this are fairly obvious Also, since everyone but Japan and Egypt (she's stubborn too..sheesh) has adopted my religion, I'm on "pleased" working on "friendly" terms with all of the enemy civs, certainly useful.

 

[seasmath]

@ Mathemagician13: You only have 3 cities! You need more ASAP.

 

[primeminister99]

Thanks for the responses, geuss I better become promote buddism more, or become a taoist...I think taoism jumped ahead for me because the religion was founded in a city with really good production values, so I just started building every building.

 

[Ledneh]

Spreading Religion never fails to work out brilliantly for me. I don't know why, considering I usually don't actively spread (only passively), but if I bag Buddhism or Hinduism (or, less often for me, Judaism), I'm pretty much in the money

 

[Alaemon]

Most say I did love the whole religion spy thing most of the time if someone is pissing me off, I train a large number of Missionary get them to open borders then I can see all

 

[kb2tvl]

Having one religion in your country does a few things:
1. you produce culture by having a state religion without buildings.
2. fighting with other civs with that religion causes unhappniess.
3. founding a religion that spreads to other civs cities will allow you to see the trooops moving through those cities. That is meaningless to the AI but I have used it to see an enemy preparing for a sneak attack.
4. there is a civic setting for +25% build rate.

 

[primeminister99]

Thanks for all the tips, but what diffrence does switching to the freedom of religion civic do to my religious abilities? And should I do that if I'm in the Industrial age? Or is it good to keep the state religion on for a much longer time?

 

[Corlindale]

You lose your line of sight to cities with your state religion, and I think you lose the happiness bonus from Cathedrals. You also lose any positive and negative diplomatic modifiers that comes with your state religion(in most cases a good thing).

 

[Lord GS-41]

I like using a state religion with theocracy because it gives those extra 2 unit exp points, which is kind of useful. In my current game, I've got my capital with West Point, Ironworks, barracks, I'm using theocracy, and some other things that make Beijing able to pump out a level 4 cavalry every turn.

If you can afford it, organized religion helps building improvements in your cities, as every city with your state religion gets a +25% improvement bonus. Unfortunately, it's high upkeep.

Anyway, it's a good idea to establish a state religion early in the game, but only use one which you have the religious wonder for. Build missionaries and spread your religion to the capital of your rivals that don't have a religion yet. If you're lucky, they'll convert the next turn, and the religion should spread quickly from the capital to their other cities. You'll have sight of their cities, and receive a commerce bonus from your religious wonder from all other cities that share your religion. Religion usually dies out with npcs later in the game, as everyone adpots free religion to get the science bonus.

 

[AngryPants]

In my current game, I've got my capital with West Point, Ironworks, barracks, I'm using theocracy, and some other things that make Beijing able to pump out a level 4 cavalry every turn.

I usually like to set up a city with Heroic Epic and West Point(mines and watermills aplenty of course). I have also found theocracy to be very useful with early naval units. I realize this is off-topic, but there should be an "Annapolis" national wonder for naval units to complement West Point.

 

[primeminister99]

So I'm playing a more "serious" game, and unfortunatley, and fortunatley (for other reasons) I'm on the "edge" of the "old world", so my religion (Christianity) has been somewhat marginialized by Buddism which has been adopted by just about everyone except for two of my next door neighbours (and two Hinduism holdouts, that are on the other side of the "old world"). And even with them, Buddism was starting to make some headway, so I had to go into their territory and make sure that ALL of their cities were Christian. Unfortunatley, the founder of Buddism, is my next major rival. I have way, way, more culture than he does, more tech too...but I think he has a much stronger army. It seems like religion is such a bonus in this game, that it would probably make sense. I don't really need to worry about him invading, but considering the travel time to other empires, and their crapy infastructure it seems like a big mission...but hopefully it'll sway them to my side...

Anyways, to get through all that babbling, I was wondering how much effort does one have to put into evangelizing to get another empire to switch to your religion? I know it's easier, if your cultural beheamoth is right at their door (as it is for my two next door neighbours), but would empires on the other side of the world actually be swayed if I sent a horde of missionaries to convert them? And even if they're not, is it still worth it? (Ie: will those countries with large Christian non-state religions, be more friendly towards me if I evangelize all of their cities?)

 

[Mathemagician13]

So generally, a civ swaps religion for two reasons. If you ask them to convert, they will if they see substantial benefit. That is, the new religion benefits them more than the old (most generally to improve friendly relations with a civ they're more concerned about, or because the new religion is in more of their cities than the old), or they think they can weasel some money out of you for it.

 

[RogueNine]

The easiest way to get a civ to convert is to have more of their cities be your religion then whatever religion they currently use. On a large map, its pretty rare that a civ will have ALL of their cities converted to their state religion, especially if they didn't found it. If your religion has more of their cities, they'll convert without you even having to ask, just because its in their best interest.

Example: They have 10 cities, and are currently Jewish. 8 of their cities have Judism in them, 2 don't. If you make 9 of their cities Christian, they'll convert because an extra city will get whatever civic bonus they've chosen.

I've frequently gotten civs to convert, yet have never asked in diplomacy. Just make it worth their while, they'll do it on their own. However, civs that have founded a religion AND have the shrine, generally spread it to all of their cities for the money, and thus converting them would probably need a diplomatic effort.

 

[Seven05]

I realize this is off-topic, but there should be an "Annapolis" national wonder for naval units to complement West Point.

West point will work for naval units if you build it in a coastal city, it's not domain or unitcombat specific.

Religions are very helpful, if you have no state religion more religions is better, if you have the holy cities for more than one religion you should spread them all (at least in your own cities) and try to build all of the shrines. Just be prepared for some friction when you adopt a state religion, and don't be afraid to avoid state religions all together until you need them.

However, you can play the game and essentially ignore religions if you want to, especially on easier levels. They're a fun effect but they won't make you or break you until you get to perhaps Noble level and above.

 

[RogueNine]

I played a Monarch game with Elizabeth and I didn't get any of the religions. Did a bit of fighting and alot of cottage spamming. Religion isn't really needed at any level, so long as your strategy has a plan for money.