When a Wonder becomes obselete...?

[Azimuth]

When a Wonder becomes obselete, does it still accumulate culture points? In PTW.

 

[Catt]

Yes.

Provided you built the wonder. If you captured it, it never produced culture for you and never will.

 

[T-Money]

Yes. The only thing lost are the effects of the wonder.

 

[Azimuth]

Yes.

Provided you built the wonder. If you captured it, it never produced culture for you and never will.

Why not?! That doesn't seem to make sense. Does it make culture points for the one who built it still? Is it destroyed? If they take the city back do they get the culture points again? Quite illogical, it seems.

 

[norwegianviking]

When I read the manuel I believe it said that when the city is captued the culture points need to be built up again, so it's basically like you just got the wonder but without the effects.

 

[Turner]

Why not?! That doesn't seem to make sense. Does it make culture points for the one who built it still? Is it destroyed? If they take the city back do they get the culture points again? Quite illogical, it seems.

No. No. Yes. That's just the way it works.

However, they still get to keep the accumulated culture to the point that the wonder (or any culture producing improvement) generated.

It would be a bit unbalancing, I think, for you to keep the culture. If you have C3C (and since you're asking for PTW, I'm guessing not) you can turn on in the editor 'keep culture gained'. I know this means that if you capture that city that's about to generate a 20k culture victory against you you'll end up winning the game, assuming you bring that city to 20k first. But I've never played with this. Imagine being able to capture every captial city and keep all the culture they generate...you'd have a cultural powerhouse.

 

[Azimuth]

...
It would be a bit unbalancing, I think, for you to keep the culture. If you have C3C (and since you're asking for PTW, I'm guessing not) you can turn on in the editor 'keep culture gained'. I know this means that if you capture that city that's about to generate a 20k culture victory against you you'll end up winning the game, assuming you bring that city to 20k first. But I've never played with this. Imagine being able to capture every captial city and keep all the culture they generate...you'd have a cultural powerhouse.

You think that's unbalancing? The way it is now, it would make more sense to raze a city that you captured that had Wonders in it.

 

[Aggie]

You DO get the tourism revenues from wonders. That will stay even after a wonder gets obsolete. And it is indeed generally clever to raze a city with obsolete wonders. These have a lot of culture of your enemy and are in danger to flip.

 

[CaptainPete]

On the subject of wonders becoming obsolete - do wonders in your control become obsolete when you discover the tech or when the tech is discovered, by you or anyone else? I read somewhere about a trick with the great library where so long as you don't have education (even if everybody else does) you can capture it from someone else and get all the techs of the two most advanced civs, way past education.

 

[Turner]

It's when you learn the tech. One common tactic when you get the great library is to gift that city to another civ, and turn science off. When you see them building RRs, you attack them with a bunch of swordsmen and catapults. Obviously, you'd have to be doing quite a bit of building of units for this to work.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

you attack them with a bunch of swordsmen and catapults

Could as well use Cannons and Cavalry

 

[Grille]

You think that's unbalancing? The way it is now, it would make more sense to raze a city that you captured that had Wonders in it.

Apart from not being able/wanting to keep the city - why??


It doesn't make a difference whether you raze the city or not.
You cannot decrease the number of total culture points that have been accumulated so far.

What you could do is cripple the culture-per-turn gain by capturing (or razing) a city that produces culture.

 

[player1 fanatic]

It's when you learn the tech. One common tactic when you get the great library is to gift that city to another civ, and turn science off. When you see them building RRs, you attack them with a bunch of swordsmen and catapults. Obviously, you'd have to be doing quite a bit of building of units for this to work.

Correction: common exploit.
When I heard someone using this in one Sid game, I almost puked.

Now, I understand that some exploits for some other are tactics, but this one is so mean that I can't see it as "right" even in Sid games.

 

[bob rulz]

Apart from not being able/wanting to keep the city - why??


It doesn't make a difference whether you raze the city or not.
You cannot decrease the number of total culture points that have been accumulated so far.

What you could do is cripple the culture-per-turn gain by capturing (or razing) a city that produces culture.

No, all cultural points in a city that you capture disappear. That's why the borders shrink. Otherwise it would practically mean that if someone's about to get a cultural victory and you want to kill them to prevent it, then when you capture their capital (or whatever city is about to win) then you will most likely win, which wouldn't be fair to other people.

All culture-producing city improvements are destroyed when you capture a city, so you have to build yourself back up in culture. IIRC, Great Wonders won't produce culture until more than half of the citizens are of your nationality, although I'm not positive...

 

[Grille]

No, all cultural points in a city that you capture disappear. That's why the borders shrink.

Well, cultural points are always related to the civ that has generated them. Cultural points never disappear unless the generating civ dies.
With the way it usually works (default rules), other civs can't "steal" them nor decrease the current amount by razing or capturing a city.

Let's assume the Sumerians have a total of 150cp, of which 100cp have been generated in the city of Ur. If the Iros capture Ur, Sumeria still has a total of 150cp. If Iros raze Ur, still 150cp in total for Sumeria.
Note that the 100 Sumerian culture points of Ur would be visible again in the city screen (they are visible all the time on F8) if Sumeria recaptures Ur; consequently, Ur's borders would have the 2nd level expansion again under Sumeria's rule.
In theory, 10 different civs could have "stored" 1000cp each in 1 single city... it's just that the current owner has the ability to generate culture points per turn.

So I don't see why it's better to raze the city (especially with valueable wonders in it) rather than keeping it?

All culture-producing city improvements are destroyed when you capture a city, so you have to build yourself back up in culture.

Of course, but again, destroying a temple or stuff would never ever destroy any single culture point. It's just that the local amount of culture points shown on the city screen is viewed from the current owner's perspective.
If you have a city in the top5 (not capital), you could run a quick test. Top5 cities are sorted by the local amount of culture of the current city owner. Save the game, place some units next to the city, gift it away. Visit F11, city (most likely...) not in top5. Recapture it, city again in top5.
(If that city had a wonder you built there, it would even continue to produce culture-per-turn.)

 

[bob rulz]

Oh sorry, I misunderstood that. I thought you meant the culture points for the city not the entire empire.

In that case, you're right.

 

[Azimuth]

You DO get the tourism revenues from wonders. ...

There is no tourism in PTW.