When definitions and usage collide...

[Masquerouge]

I have never seen so many misspellings as I have in the last six years (since I've been web connected). The internet is ripe with misspellings. And I am one of the worst! Though I use a spell checker since I understand that some folks translate my english words into their native language. So accurate spelling is vital to accurate communication. I must also learn how to better structure my words into sentances. Written communication is a weakness of mine and one that I have invested much time into, yet nothing I do seems to bring about real understanding of what I write (at least as applies to the masses). Then to make things worse the software translators do not do a very good job thus far.

Well imagine a time when there was absolutely no rules about spelling...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_spelling#History_of_the_English_spelling_system

History of the English spelling system

Throughout the history of the English language, these inconsistencies have gradually increased in number. There are a number of contributing factors. First, gradual changes in pronunciation, such as the Great Vowel Shift, account for a tremendous amount of irregularities. Second, relatively recent loan words from other languages generally carry their original spellings, which are often not phonetic in English. The Romanization of languages (e.g., Chinese) using alphabets derived from the Latin alphabet has further complicated this problem, for example when pronouncing Chinese place names. Third, some prescriptivists have had partial success in their attempts to normalize the English language, forcing a change in spelling but not in pronunciation.
The regular spelling system of Old English was swept away by the Norman Conquest, and English itself was eclipsed by French for three centuries, eventually emerging with its spelling much influenced by French. English had also borrowed large numbers of words from French, which for reasons of prestige and familiarity kept their French spellings. The spelling of Middle English, such as in the writings of Geoffrey Chaucer, is very irregular and inconsistent, with the same word being spelled differently, sometimes even in the same sentence. However, these were generally much better guides to pronunciation than modern English spelling can honestly claim.
The pronunciation /ʌ/ (normally spelled u) of written o in son, love, come, etc. is due to Norman spelling conventions prohibiting writing of u before v, m, n due to the graphical confusion that would result. (v, u, n were identically written with two minims in Norman handwriting; w was written as two u letters; m was written with three minims, hence mm looked like vun, nvu, uvu, etc.) Similarly, spelling conventions also prohibited final v. Hence the identical spellings of the three different vowel sounds in love, grove and prove are due to ambiguity in the Middle English spelling system, not sound change.
There was also a series of linguistic sound changes towards the end of this period, including the Great Vowel Shift, which resulted in "i" in "mine" changing from a pure vowel to a diphthong. These changes for the most part did not detract from the rule-governed nature of the spelling system; but in some cases they introduced confusing inconsistencies, like the well-known example of the many pronunciations of "ough" (rough, through, though, trough, plough, etc.). Most of these changes happened before the arrival of printing in England. However, the arrival of the printing press merely froze the current system, rather than providing the impetus for a realignment of spelling with pronunciation. Furthermore, it introduced further inconsistencies, partly because of the use of typesetters trained abroad, particularly in the Low Countries.
By the time dictionaries were introduced in the mid 1600s, the spelling system of English started to stabilize, and by the 1800s, most words had set spellings.

Ah. Proves my point.

 

[LucyDuke]

My examples were used just as that, examples. They were not proofs in themselves.

Of course. It's great evidence that French has stayed put, at least in some respects. Is French your first language?

Well Latin is still the official language of the Vatican, so...

Yes, but the Vatican rarely shows any interest in changing things from the way they were x centuries ago.

And I bet that these many languages, precisely because they are in less industrialized parts of the world, do not have dictionnaries. What languages are you referring to?

Now I see your point - that the dictionary is the agent of stagnation. In many places, as well, there are dictionaries, they just aren't of interest to many people. I have no specifics at hand, though I'd be happy to look through some books to give you examples.

Well it also is language evolving. So it's not strictly speaking the subject of the OP, but I believe it's part of the evolution of language.
Again, in languages where dictionnaries are heavily used, changes in spelling have dramatically slowed down...

Absolutely right. It's sort of a pigeonhole, though. Pronunciation varies wildly across small areas, but spelling has become standardized, like you say. It absolutely is part of the evolution, but it's not the same as the change in meaning.

We need to keep in mind something that Civ's tech tree reminds us of - that we didn't start being humans with writing or alphabets. Spelling is a relatively new phenomenon and less relevant.

 

[Masquerouge]

Of course. It's great evidence that French has stayed put, at least in some respects. Is French your first language?

It is

Now I see your point - that the dictionary is the agent of stagnation.

Exactly! And if you look at my previous post right above yours, apparently the dictionary (okay, so 1 n only ) had the same effect on the English language - as far as spelling is concerned.

We need to keep in mind something that Civ's tech tree reminds us of - that we didn't start being humans with writing or alphabets. Spelling is a relatively new phenomenon and less relevant.

True, true

 

[Xanikk999]

Who cares? Sorry for sounding rude but theres no way your going to enforce this without a national grammar police division.

And even then, the secret nazi brigade wont be able to arrest everyone for not using the correct definition.

/end joke

Anyway its still unnessary, education does not change this.

Words meaning changing are a natural part of language evolution.

 

[Masquerouge]

Words meaning changing are a natural part of language evolution.

Oh the irony

 

[Xanikk999]

Oh the irony

Whats the irony? Did i not use a word properly?

 

[White Elk]

Ah. Proves my point.

LOL perhaps it prove your point in regards to the past. But with the advent of the internet I think misspellings must be on the rise. One thing is for sure... I have seen more misspellings in the last six years than I have seen during all the previous years of my life put together. Now that we have the web many millions of people have easy access to publish their thoughts on a medium that is internationally seen. I stated that I have never seen so many misspellings before. And I will extrapolate that and say that I think most of us have seen more misspellings after the advent of the net than before it. Its a simple fact of the information age I think.

 

[White Elk]

Sorry for sounding rude but theres no way your going to enforce this without a national grammar police division.

And even then, the secret nazi brigade wont be able to arrest everyone for not using the correct definition.

I said earlier that I would want Word Cops helping us out with our communication. But really what I should have said is that I want Super Word Mods who can step in and help us out with miscomunications which result from our improper usage of words (grammers, sentance structure etc). People (or in the future perhaps an AI) who moniter our public communication and step in when improper use of language results in miscommunication.

 

[LucyDuke]

..But with the advent of the internet I think misspellings must be on the rise...

The point was (to my understanding) that the dictionaries establish standard spellings, not that they enforce them. Now that we don't have publishers and editors controlling what gets published, people can spell things as poorly as they want and still post it on their blogs. The spelling variations have always been around, it's just that now we distinguish between correct and incorrect alternatives.

 

[LucyDuke]

I said earlier that I would want Word Cops helping us out [...] improper use of language results in miscommunication.

My ideal has always been conscientious people taking the time to communicate carefully such that no correction is needed.

 

[White Elk]

The point was (to my understanding) that the dictionaries establish standard spellings, not that they enforce them. Now that we don't have publishers and editors controlling what gets published, people can spell things as poorly as they want and still post it on their blogs. The spelling variations have always been around, it's just that now we distinguish between correct and incorrect alternatives.

So it all goes back to personal responsibilty to puzzle out that which we do not understand before embarking on a counter campaign of words.

And for the publisher of blogs and posts, there has never been an easier time to spell correctly. Now a spell check of an entire document is just one click away. Versus a history where we would have to thumb through the pages of a thick book searching for the correct spelling and hoping that we were close enough to the correct spelling to actually be able to find it. It is so easy now. Why dont people do it!?! And with international access for which we can speak with people from all over the world, it is so very important to spell properly so that the translating softwares have half a chance at expressing what we are trying to say.

 

[White Elk]

My ideal has always been conscientious people taking the time to communicate carefully such that no correction is needed.

I completely agree! And although I endeavor to communicate carefully I still overlook things. But when other people equally endeavor to understand what I write, then it should be all good!

 

[Irish Caesar]

LOL perhaps it prove your point in regards to the past. But with the advent of the internet I think misspellings must be on the rise. One thing is for sure... I have seen more misspellings in the last six years than I have seen during all the previous years of my life put together. Now that we have the web many millions of people have easy access to publish their thoughts on a medium that is internationally seen. I stated that I have never seen so many misspellings before. And I will extrapolate that and say that I think most of us have seen more misspellings after the advent of the net than before it. Its a simple fact of the information age I think.

But I would imagine most everything else you read before was either newspapers, which go through editors and proofreaders; books, which go through editors and proofreaders; or perhaps papers, which get edited and proofread. Internet posts aren't going to go through an editor or a proofreader, even though some of ours probably should...

 

[White Elk]

But I would imagine most everything else you read before was either newspapers, which go through editors and proofreaders; books, which go through editors and proofreaders; or perhaps papers, which get edited and proofread. Internet posts aren't going to go through an editor or a proofreader, even though some of ours probably should...

Yes and my points still stand that I see more misspellings than ever. And Yes it it up to us as individual publishers to ensure that we proofread our publications/posts. I see it as a social responsibility (dang now I will have to be Very carefull with my writings).

I still read books. But I do not read newspapers anymore because I favor the online versions over the paper and ink versions. In this information age I read far more online than I ever did in newsprint. I read papers from India, China and the UK along with national papers and more. Then with the forums and blogs I read, I encounter far more misspellings in the last six years than I have read in all of my years previous. My points still stand. I have seen more misspellings in the last six years than I had seen in my entire lifetime.