When do Disciples gain XP's??

xendelaar

Chieftain
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
29
Hi guys,
I'm new to this forum. I've been playing FfH2 quite some time now it I must say it's awesome!!
I have a question though.. When do disciples gain XP (not taking combat into account). It seem that the disciples gain XP automatically over time, but not regularly like the adepts. Why don't they gain XP like the adepts do?
 
I think the tier one religious units (thanes of whatever), won't gain xp a noticeable rate. If you upgrade them to priests of whatever, it should be a bit more noticeable.
 
Some disciples do though but sorry I can never remember base ffh very well. I believe that Malakim disciples can earn exp fortified in desert tiles and spiritual leaders have disciples that gain exp quickly with a special promotion, potency I think. Could be mistaken though.
 
Malakim desert XP is in a modmod (or several modmods), but not standard FfH.

Otherwise, potency is the promotion that spiritual leaders get that gives free XP (Though it can take awhile.)
 
Otherwise, potency is the promotion that spiritual leaders get that gives free XP (Though it can take awhile.)

Potency increases the rate xp gain rate. Divine units will still get the xp without it, just slower. Either way, I've never know Thanes to get a worthwhile xp rate at all.
 
Potency works the same way as the channeling promotions do in increasing the chance of gaining xp each turn. Potency alone will cause xp gain, just not as fast as when combined with channeling. The chance of gaining xp per turn is the sum of the <iSpellCasterXP> values of all of the units promotions, divided by 100 and with modifiers applied for the game speed and slower xp game option.



Only certain units (those that have the <bFreeXP>1</bFreeXP> in their CIV4UnitInfos.xml defines) can benefit from this increased chance of xp gain. All Arcane Units, Priests, High Priests, Druids (and their UUs), and first tier religious disciple units are among these, but Crusaders, Paramanders, Paladins, and Eidola are not.


The first tier disciples do not by default have any promotions that cause automatic xp gain, so they only gain xp like adept if they were created by a leader with the Spiritual trait.
 
Thanks you guys. I didn't know the XP gain model for the arcane and disciple units was that complicated! I thought they gained 1 XP per turn.

I was playing with the Sidar and I wanted to create a whole army of specialist. So I constructed the altar of luonnotar (level VI) to whip a bunch of level 5 priests of leaves out of the city with the altar. It would take only 10 XP more to get to level 6 (which unlocks the wane ability), but after 100 turns my units were still level 5. I was on a small island so there were no barbarians or rivals I could easily take down to gain the extra XPs.
When the batch finally started to upgrade to level 6, the game was already in the last stage and I didn't need them that much any more.
I guess the only way to get level 6 units is to start waging war early in the game?
 
As already mentioned the only way disciples gain experience, other than combat, is by having the Potency promotion given to Spiritual disciples. This is a rather slow and erratic process but not that different from the slow rate that adepts gain free xps. I'm not sure of the exact chances now, since there have been many changes, but in the old FFH2 manual Channelling 1 has a 20% chance to gain 1 xp per turn and Potency also has a 20% chance.

There are several great tricks that a Spiritual leader can play by building several of the level 1 disciples and letting them gain xps before upgrading them on their alternative upgrade path, rather than simply upgrading to the priest of that religion. The upgrade to priest requires that you adopt that religion, not a big problem for a Spiritual leader unless you have religious heroes you want to keep, but the alternative path doesn't need the religion in some cases.

A superior mage can be made by building a Spiritual savant. The unit gets a free potency, mobility and medic promotion and when it has grown to 10 xps can be upgraded to a mage. If you have at least 3 sources of any mana type it immediately picks up the free level 2 spells and level 1 from any 2 sources of mana. You now have a mage with Channelling 2 and Potency promotions that gains xps much faster than an ordinary mage upgraded through the normal adept route. It also has a free mobility and medic promotion and so will be better promoted than most other mages with the same xp. It does miss the chance to pick up the free level 1 spells that an adept gets on creation. To build these savants you only need get the Corruption of Spirit tech and build an Ashen Veil temple, no need to adopt the religion and become evil. And you only need 1 city with the temple so it won't push the Armageddon counter up much, if that's a worry.

A superior ranger can be made by upgrading a Spiritual disciple of leaves. If you wait until it has gained 5 xp it can immediately take the combat1 and subdue animal promotion on upgrade to ranger. This ranger also has a free mobility and medic1 which is very useful when he's out capturing animals for you.

A slightly superior Stygian Guard can be made by upgrading from the Spiritual Zealot. This can gain xp while sitting around as a level 1 and can be built with only an OO temple and not adopting the religion. However to upgrade to either the Stygian Guard or the Cultist the religion is needed. Perhaps the biggest advantage of this route is that you can recruit the Zealots many turns before researching the Fanaticism tech and then have a large number of well promoted Stygian Guards when you reach this tech and adopt OO. A similar trick can be done for superior Crusader and Paramanders but these are seldom the main troops or have the impact that Stygian Guards have.

So next time you have a Spiritual leader consider playing around with these religions and their level 1 disciple. In fact since you're Spiritual you can do all of these tricks in the same game :)
 
Sounds very interesting UncleJJ! I'm sure going to try this in a future game. :) It never occurred to me I could research a particular religion, make a temple, but not converting to its "Heathen ways" . :crazyeye:

Gekko: Thanks for the "your favourite top 10 tips for your favourite civs" thread tip! I wasn't able to find it yet with this site search option, but I'm sure I will find it soon. :)
 
disciples of leaves are awesome in that you can give them march, then upgrade to Rangers. only way to get rangers with march, which are sweet, especially when they go on to become Beastmasters :)
 
Yesterday I played with the Sidar as a spiritual leader (unrestricted leaders) on marathon speed on a normal Pangaea map. It was awesome! I made some of those super mages UncleJJ advised. They kicked ass! They were generating that much XP I didn't know what to do with it hehe. :D

When I started the game, I declared war to my neighbors as soon as I had my first religion (RoK), so I could start harassing them with my units to gain experience. When finally the priests came along I was almost drowning in the super special people (since I was also building the altar). The AI didn't stand a chance after that.
For my next game I will increase the difficulty level at bit to get more resistance from the AI. I theoretically already won after 200 turns or so, but I didn't finish the others off because I needed experience for my disciple units and mages to generate more super special people and because I enjoyed the fact I was kicking ass hehe.
I do have to admit I'm currently playing on chieftain level :blush: because I'm a real newfag at this mod. The stacks of dooms of the AI are much better than the once of the normal Civ (imo).
I would really appreciate any tips :) (although it's a bit off topic I guess)... :)

To Gekko: I didn't try the Rangers/Beastmasters with March path. It looks intriguing so I guess I'm gonna have a go with that in my next game as well. :)
 
glad to see you're enjoying the mod. there's enough content to keep you enjoying it for years. and then there's the modmods and... oh boy :lol:
 
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