Where does the Great Library stand now?

[GreenThings]

Where does the Great Library stand now? In G&K I always used to beeline this wonder to reap the good benefits.

Is it worth the extra 3 science and the free tech?

Or is it better to build a Library followed by a Settler and Caravan early on for that lovely food bonus?

I know that it got better with the two writing slots in it, but in this new expansion I feel like it's not worth the time when compared to other things you can do. Then again, I still haven't nailed out a good, routine start yet.

What do you guys thinks about this?

 

[atknowles]

I definitely think it's worth building. I'm kind of required to, since my OCD won't allow me to continue the game without it.

 

[GKShaman]

Since Animal Husbandry is so key now. Along with a couple of tech for some broken wonders Im looking at u Colossus and Petra - I wanna go back to the GL National College start.

 

[Resipsa]

Doesn't the AI start off with pottery?

 

[mikeg]

I can't say for sure as I don't have the game yet, but from the sounds of things the early AI aggression due to you having a weak military has been toned down a bit. In G&K this was the only real reason for making me think twice about building (or at least trying to build) the GL and popping Philosophy every single time, so I can see myself using this strategy fairly regularly in BNW, especially with the writing slots as well.

 

[Bei1052]

Unless something has changed, I haven't gotten the GL since... prince. It really does seem that the AI prioritizes the GL, which (in my experience) makes it all but impossible to get at higher levels, since I know the AI starts with pottery and *maybe* writing.

 

[ahawk]

AI prioritizes GL, AI at higher levels starts with Pottery, and the AI tends to have other bonuses that help them not have to worry so much about what isn't getting built while they build the GL.

On Prince, possibly King, and below, I'd go for GL even more than in the past, as it now is good both for science (the tech) and culture (the two Great Work slots) strategies.

On Emperor and above, it's highly unlikely you will even get a shot at GL, unless you are playing a Duel-sized map and the one AI is more intent on building units than wonders.

Honestly, the GL is now one of the best wonders in the game. Extra science, free tech, and two Great Work slots makes it pretty versatile. The GL and Petra both have been made into multi-purpose Wonders (check Petra out: no longer provides the one gold per desert tile, but provides food and production for desert tiles, generates culture after Archaeology, gives a free Amphitheater, and adds a Trade Route).

 

[Hyperion529]

(check Petra out: no longer provides the one gold per desert tile, but provides food and production for desert tiles, generates culture after Archaeology, gives a free Amphitheater, and adds a Trade Route).

nope, the amphitheater is gone. but in addition to the added trade route, it also gives a Caravan, so you can set this route right up. still an awesome wonder.

 

[pkf]

1 city GL NC with 2 cities settled after NC and food trade routes seems to do ok sciencewise. Still nothing compared to G&K 3 city NC unless you get lucky and DoFs (gold) early.

Not sure if it is worth it - getting settler and food trade route right away seems to be just fine too, and you can also get more units out.

 

[Deggial]

... since I know the AI starts with pottery and *maybe* writing.

Is this one of the new changes in BNW?

Because, with G&K, I usually was able to build the GB on 'emperor' if I didn't mess around with other things (at least with a quite okay 50% probability).

 

[pkf]

I dont think it has changed - managed to get GL on all my BNW emperor games so far (quite late too, ~t45+). Perhaps it's even easier since AIs will need caravans etc as well...

 

[spfun]

Well on immortal and deity you don't get the GL because its goes to fast.

 

[Resipsa]

Well on immortal and deity you don't get the GL because its goes to fast.

If you have 2 hill tiles, and pop a pottery ruin within the first 5 turns and switch to writing you've got a shot at it on immortal and deity at finishing around t32-35 but be ready to reload as its gone as early as t22 on me.

 

[Soronery]

On average its gone on turn 35 or so (standard pace) I think. On a good start you can build it by around t40-42. It's rough trying to build it.

 

[Martinus]

I would say it is quite useful for early tourism since you can get great works of literature fairly early but the slots for them are rather scarce.

 

[Martin Alvito]

It'd be fantastic if I could get it on Deity.

Seeing how it's generally gone around turn 30, I don't see any way to actually build it. Maybe if I hit two pop ruins, got Writing from a ruin and chopped. Maybe.

 

[Trevors Ideas]

Agree with Martin. GL is great but it's next to impossible to get on Deity. If anything the AI techs faster and builds it quicker than before.

It's just as good as before though if not better. It's all in what you take it for... what you plan is. If you can target a key tech to grab with it and have it significantly sooner than otherwise it's a huge boost. Can't complain about the writer slot's either, if you are going culture it's probably the best early source of tourism when combined with writer's guild.

 

[PhilBowles]

Where does the Great Library stand now? In G&K I always used to beeline this wonder to reap the good benefits.

Is it worth the extra 3 science and the free tech?

Or is it better to build a Library followed by a Settler and Caravan early on for that lovely food bonus?

I know that it got better with the two writing slots in it, but in this new expansion I feel like it's not worth the time when compared to other things you can do. Then again, I still haven't nailed out a good, routine start yet.

What do you guys thinks about this?

As discussed in the G&K Wonders poll thread when that was released, the GL (which ended up ranking rather low) is not as good as it looks. It can be useful on lower difficulties when you can reliably get it, but otherwise it eats valuable production time and it takes so much longer than a library to complete that you don't gain that much of a beaker lead. You have to rush the Library, which means you get a very cheap tech from it.

No doubt a new Wonders poll will be underway soon, and the GL hasn't been buffed particularly - it may have a specialised niche as one of the earliest Great Work buildings and so useful in culture-focused games, but Wonders like the Mausoleum have profited much more.

 

[animalcross]

I definitely think it's worth building. I'm kind of required to, since my OCD won't allow me to continue the game without it.

Completely agree to this!

 

[Browd]

Unless something has changed, I haven't gotten the GL since... prince. It really does seem that the AI prioritizes the GL, which (in my experience) makes it all but impossible to get at higher levels, since I know the AI starts with pottery and *maybe* writing.

Is this one of the new changes in BNW?

Because, with G&K, I usually was able to build the GB on 'emperor' if I didn't mess around with other things (at least with a quite okay 50% probability).

There were changes to the AI starting techs on Emperor+, but no AI gets Writing. The techs are:

Emperor: Animal Husbandry, Pottery and Mining
Immortal: Animal Husbandry, Pottery, Mining and Archery
Deity: Animal Husbandry, Pottery, Mining, Wheel and Archery

King is unchanged at just Pottery.