Why Social Order?

[vyapti]

Why would you use Social Order? It's got similar benefits to Nationhood without the reduced war weariness. . . and it requires a 3200 Tech.

I just got The Order for the first time and I'm not sure I'll ever even research Unquestioning Obedience. Social Order seems weaker than Nationhood and a Basilica is a Courthouse at twice the cost.

Am I missing something?

 

[Gamestation]

I guess it's supposed to encourages zero maintenance in all your cities?

 

[MrUnderhill]

Yeah, with the new civic rebalances, Social Order ended up being a bit depreciated. I gave it +1 per Military Unit, increased the production bonus to 25%, and ditched the building bonuses to compensate.

That way you could get the old 1.6a Aristocracy/Agriculture combo, but you have to follow the Order, which I thought was a nice balance (no pop-rushing from Veil or Overlords, and no engineer spamming from Runes). Good thing there's no Free Religion civic anymore; the Grigori would have a hayday with Social Order.

 

[vyapti]

I gave it +1 per Military Unit, increased the production bonus to 25%, and ditched the building bonuses to compensate.

That would be a nice way to get the Garrison/Happiness Bonus back into the game.

 

[Maniac]

Perhaps the Basilica could provide +2 instead of +1 happiness?

 

[daladinn]

umm.... blink
lets see .....

basilica ..... lowered cost
temple ..... gold (similar to kilmorph)
valin phanel(sp) ... nice lil calvary guy
sphener .............. angel and strong hero
crusaders and paladins
free acolyte every time you use an acolyte to spread religion
free crusader when you capture cities

the order is very much geared for running a crusade. if you play it like that your golden.

 

[Maniac]

People aren't saying the Order religion sucks, but that the Social Order civic is a bit unattractive.

 

[MrUnderhill]

Whoa, I just thought of something (about adding the Garrison bonus to Social Order).

With the Agriculture/Aristocracy/Social Order combo, you'd get massive amounts of and , along with enough happiness to support a large population, but you'd probably be short on production (since most of your citizens would be working on and agriculture takes the away from plains farms).

But if you throw in Prophecy of Ragnarok (+1 per Priest) and Religious Discipline (Unlimited Priests), you'd have an unlimited supply of pseudo-engineers to replace the missing , and you'd have more than enough food to support all those priests and keep growing.

Plus, it fits completely with the Order's religious nature. Mmm, gameplay and flavor...*drools*

 

[Sureshot]

ya, and military garrison needs to get back in, may have to make that change for myself as well

 

[Maniac]

In Rise of Mania it's put back in.

 

[Lloyien]

Military garrisons: the answer to Republic.

Ahem. More on topic--

The Order religion is geared toward crusade, yes. I haven't yet played a game as the Bannor with the Order, but I can say that it makes Ethne (Elohim) downright dangerous. Courthouse/Basilica combo is essentially a good way of wiping out maintainence costs, and makes overexpansion not only easy, but downright fun. If you can found or capture the holy city, it also makes a slow, steady subversion of your neighbors an attractive option. Spread the religion to pad your income, and then take them over (with the help of our good friend Sphener). Gold rush a courthouse+basilica in the city, and voila! Probably won't have to keep your science lower than 80%..ever. And that's to produce enough gold to keep production steady.

 

[TheJopa]

I never use social order- nationhood is better for military and consumerism is better for happines, and it also gives gold. Think about it- 1 happy from market worths more than 1 happy from courthouse since market is cheaper. And basilica is more expensive than theater or tavern.

I made some balance changes for myself and for social order it was- remove military production bonus, added -25% number of cities maintenance, happines from courthouse and basilica increased to +2.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

The other features of the Order are downright nifty. Social Order is a real weakpoint. If this was one of the first three religions we were talking about, I'd be perfectally okay with that. As is, I think it could use some beefing.

 

[onedreamer]

Social Order is better than Nationalism because the training yard in my book is way lower in priority in the build queue than courthouse and basilica.
Also, in the last game I played I was suffering from -14 unhappy due to war weariness in my capital... I switched to Nationalism and Military Discipline for a +50% vs WW (didn't have any other civic with penalty, but I did have the -10% from the Palace) and the unhappy citizens were still 14. Hence, either there's a bug or these 2 civics are not very worth it.