Why was there an Age of Ice?

[fdrpi]

I have some questions about the Age of Ice:

1. Why did Mulcarn want to invade the world so badly? Or rather, why was he willing to do it, and why then? Why did he want Agares to make Bhall fall then?

2. Why did Agares want an age of ice? What reason did he have for letting Mulcarn take over the world? Because from my perspective, the Infernals and the spread of hell terrain is very close to the same thing. Was Mulcarn just a pawn in Agares' master plan?
If so, what is that plan?

3. Obviously it's great to have the Goddess of Fire on your side, but does Agares have any specific plans for/with Bhall? And again, why at that time, and why her and not another diety?

 

[A Moon]

Why did Mulcarn want to invade the world so badly?
Part of the precept of Ice is a dislike of change, and a fondness for how things used to be. Mulcarn remembered a time when he had absolute power (his vault, the plane of ice) and wanted it back. He also remembered a time when winter was respected as a part of nature, a time of slumber needed to balance summer and keep everything working. Instead, people saw the chilling wind and snow as something to not be wanted, and preferred summer.

Also, taking over the world is cool.
Or rather, why was he willing to do it, and why then?
Because he could.
Why did he want Agares to make Bhall fall then?
Because he could.
Why did Agares want an age of ice?
People are dying, the good gods are being worshipped less (why worship a seemingly-useless god instead of trying to appease the one breathing down your neck?), and so hell is getting more souls. I doubt Agares specifically wanted the Age of Ice, but it didn't really hurt him. Or maybe it did, and Mulcarn's breaching of the contract wasn't discussed with the other evil gods.
Was Mulcarn just a pawn in Agares' master plan?
They were probably both just pawns in Ceridwen's master plan.
If so, what is that plan?
Agares wants to take over creation, so he can have it, as far as I'm aware.
Obviously it's great to have the Goddess of Fire on your side, but does Agares have any specific plans for/with Bhall?
Another good question.
And again, why at that time, and why her and not another diety?
I don't think Agares can magically choose a god and make them evil. I think he must have been working on Bhall for a while, and perhaps something about the precept of fire (It's so easy for righteous fury to go wrong, just like how a a fire can slip out of control) that made Bhall particularly susceptible to Falling.

 

[fdrpi]

First of all...

taking over the world is cool

Mulcarn is pleased by your pun.

I can actually see why Agares and the other evil gods would benefit. After all, a lot of people probably despaired, lots of fighting, brawn over brain ext... No clue for Ceridwen of course.

I know Agares can't just make someone evil, but I was asking why her, and your answer makes sense.

And Mulcarn always had his vault. Heck, he's spent most of his existence in his realm which he still has. Or do you mean he doesn't like that they are all joined in one big hell? I still don't get that.

And here's the big thing: Agares told Mulcarn to "get ready" for Bhall to fall. It's in Kylorin's entry. Therefore, Agares knew what would happen and caused it in a way. Why would he want that if he wants to rule Erebus?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Agares attempts to corrupts all of the gods, but Bhall was the biggest prize. During the Age of Magic she had about as many worshipers as all the other gods combined. Her followers were the ones that were well on the way to purge the world of evil. As The Compact allows a god to have almost unlimited influence of his own worshipers but severely limits his influence on the others, Bhall was able to exercise far more power than any other god. This lead to her downfall, as it became easy for Agares to inflate her ego. Her pride led to her fall.


Mulcarn was never particularly popular among mortals. As few chose to worship him, The Compact did not allow him as much influence in Erebus as his siblings had. He yearned to return to the time when he did not have to abide by The Compact and could act freely. He also yearned for a time when those pesky mortals knew their place, humbly eking out their existence knowing that they were subject to them whims of the supernatural rather than building great works to glorify themselves and the more popular divinities. At one point, shortly after humanity was created, Mulcarn decided that making us at all was a horrible mistake and it would be better to go back to a time when no intelligent races existed. Be glad that he moderated his position once he decided that we should be allowed to exist in order to worship him.

 

[fdrpi]

Makes sense (of course it does coming from you), but why did Agares send Mulcarn to do what he would just send Hyborem to do later?

And other than generic "pride" and the thing about Agares letting the gods create, what would cause Bhall to fall? Did she willingly disfigure her acolytes and send the Bannor to hell?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Mulcarn willfully and openly broke The Compact. Hyborem on the other hand may have violated the spirit of The Compact, but has not taken any action that is technically forbidden. Agares would be forced to intervene if any regulation of the compact was actually broken, but can give tacit approval when they are only slightly bent. In my modmod I do not allow the Hyborem of other greater demon units to leave hell terrain, to show that they still have to play within the rules.

Agares did not send Hyborem to invade Erebus. I don't think that The Compact allows a god to order his angels to interfere like that; a god can turn a blind eye towards such behavior, especially when his servants are doing what mortals have invited them to do.

Agares rarely orders anyone to do anything. His demons do not have a strict hierarchy (barely more than Camulos'), but are allowed almost complete freedom to do as they like in his hell. Hyborem is stronger than any other demon lord, but they are his rivals rather than subordinates. In a hell of pure despair, the demon lords had no drive to leave and expand their reign into Erebus. It was not until Bhall awoke that her passion inspired them take the risk of conquering lands that do not so easily bend to their will. They had no such plans before that.


Bhall's fall perverted her sphere itself. She did not consciously act to disfigure her followers (unless you count her attack against those angels who refused to be corrupted), but their connection to her was strong enough to bring about similar changes in them. Those who dwelt in Braduk were so close to her that her form fell through the plane of Erebus at the site of the city's citadel and dragged it down with her. Many in her temple and the royal palace were corrupted and are likely now demons in hell, but not all. Those who revered Junil (who as Bhall former closest ally has shrines within her temples) prayed to him and were sent Sbathiel to protect them.

 

[fdrpi]

I thought the Compact banned archangels entering creation. I.E Odio (he refused to follow the Compact and was dealt with, I know it was a war and ceasefire violation but still.)

So otherwise good people became demons just because of association with Bhall, and never really had a chance.

Also, I think the events of the age of ice are an analogy to nuclear war. You have:
1. a massive fiery explosion that destroys a city and causes other tremendous collateral damage
2. mutations- Orcs and the lot
3. nuclear winter follows (ie Mulcarn entering creation)

 

[A Moon]

I thought the Compact banned archangels entering creation. I.E Odio (he refused to follow the Compact and was dealt with, I know it was a war and ceasefire violation but still.)

It's probably not worded quite like that. Mammon was an extremely skilled negotiator who
managed to wring a lot of concessions from the Good gods (which says a lot, given that the war was going in the Good guys' favour), and sneaked in a lot of loopholes for the Evil gods to abuse (Hyborem's actions being one of those loopholes.)

So otherwise good people became demons just because of association with Bhall, and never really had a chance.

Welcome to dark fantasy.

Also, I think the events of the age of ice are an analogy to nuclear war. You have:
1. a massive fiery explosion that destroys a city and causes other tremendous collateral damage
2. mutations- Orcs and the lot
3. nuclear winter follows (ie Mulcarn entering creation)

You might be reading into things a bit too much.

 

[fdrpi]

I don't think there was any meaning to the nuclear thing, I just thought it was interesting.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Odio was going on a rampage against the worshipers of Kilmorph during the ceasefire, not simply entering Erebus after the treaty was signed.

Most of the archangels spend quite a bit of time in Erebus. They are free to come and go as they please, but are severely limited in what they can do while there. They have a fair amount of latitude when dealing with worshipers of their respective gods, but not with dealing with the "property" of their masters' rivals. Cernunnos, in the time between his god's demise and his ascension, lived with and was the leader of the Ljosalfar. Nantosuelta's archangel spent a fair amount of time around the Elohim palace when Ethne was a little girl. Gyra intervened to help the Sidar. Sabathiel is the only archangel whose god interprets The Compact so strictly that he is not allowed to live in Erebus itself. Cassiel chose to fall but his personal ethics limit him more than The Compact itself would, so he has never violated its terms. Basium openly violated The Compact, and as as a result had his immortality revoked and his gods ara of protection completely withdrawn from him. (He was not then imprisoned by a rival god like Odio was by Kilorph, but that may just mean that by the time he rebelled the gods were no longer permitted to take such drastic actions.) I suspect that Basium is no longer considered to be an archangel under the definitions set in The Compact, but is treated like a mortal. He does still have the advantage of knowing a lot of things even the wisest humans do not know though, such as the most holy names of The One and how to sneak in and out of the passageways between Erebus and the Netherworld which he was formerly assigned to guard.


The truly good people who worshiped Bhall did not become demons, at least not without freely choosing to give into corruption first. Being good requires more than devotion to one good aligned precept. In the current age there are plenty of wicked legalists who honor Junil. Many worshipers of Bhall were probably sorely deficient in the virtues of the other spheres. Some probably only worshiped her because being associated with such a popular deity helped their social standing. Most of her worshipers who stayed righteous after her fall were not dragged into hell, but simply killed by crazed priests. As the good gods claimed only the strongest souls (lacking an assembly line like the great machine of hell that fashions weaker souls into powerful demons), the vast majority of her worshipers would be headed to the Netherworld anyway, where they fashion their own afterlife from their dreams.

 

[fdrpi]

Hyborem on the other hand may have violated the spirit of The Compact, but has not taken any action that is technically forbidden. Agares would be forced to intervene if any regulation of the compact was actually broken, but can give tacit approval when they are only slightly bent.

So Agares is basically the Richard Nixon of Erebus?

"I am not a crook! I'm only the God of Despair and the King of Hell! Jesus! Wait a minute..."