World wonder theming bonuses? please explain how this works

[Laurwin]

I have many questions about theming bonuses and great works.

1. If you conquer enemy city, do you capture all the great works inside?

2. Let's say you decide to raze enemy city, can you "steal" the great works away from the "city under razing process"? You would just move away the great works into your capital or something?

3. I tried to combine the great works in my capital, in the Hermitage. But I didn't get the bonus!

Here is a list of great paintings which existed in Hermitage in Marrakech, my capital city (no theming culture bonus)

-Spain, industrial era, "The card players"
-America, classic era, "Hunters in the snow"
-Morocco, ancient era, "beads" (artifact)

What was the problem in my capital with no theming bonus from hermitage? Every great work WAS from different era, AND from different former owner.

 

[calyth]

-Spain, industrial era, "The card players"
-America, classic era, "Hunters in the snow"
-Morocco, ancient era, "beads" (artifact)

What was the problem in my capital with no theming bonus from hermitage? Every great work WAS from different era, AND from different former owner.

It may require the same type - all great art, or artifact. What you've got is 2 art and one artifact. or one of them is from you. It has to be different from owner (i.e. your civ).

As to razing and stealing, I don't know about that. I'm not much of a warmongerer.

 

[chazzycat]

1. If you conquer enemy city, do you capture all the great works inside?

for the most part, but not always. National wonders and some culture buildings are destroyed when you conquer a city. If there are GW in those buildings that are destroyed, they will magically teleport to your cities BUT ONLY if you have an open slot. If you have no open slot, and all the buildings for that type of GW are destroyed, then the GW disappears.

2. Let's say you decide to raze enemy city, can you "steal" the great works away from the "city under razing process"? You would just move away the great works into your capital or something?

yes you can move them while razing

3. I tried to combine the great works in my capital, in the Hermitage. But I didn't get the bonus!

Here is a list of great paintings which existed in Hermitage in Marrakech, my capital city (no theming culture bonus)

-Spain, industrial era, "The card players"
-America, classic era, "Hunters in the snow"
-Morocco, ancient era, "beads" (artifact)

What was the problem in my capital with no theming bonus from hermitage? Every great work WAS from different era, AND from different former owner.

For hermitage (and all wonders except Louvre) you can only use great works of art, not artifacts.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

It seems to be easier to produce great works yourself, since the requirements for Uffizi and the Hermitage are great works from the same civ and same/different eras. The AI's seem to have only one works of art at the time and frequently neglect artifacts, as well. Well, at least on Immortal. Perhaps, on Deity, the AI's spam great works.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

3. I tried to combine the great works in my capital, in the Hermitage. But I didn't get the bonus!

Here is a list of great paintings which existed in Hermitage in Marrakech, my capital city (no theming culture bonus)

-Spain, industrial era, "The card players"
-America, classic era, "Hunters in the snow"
-Morocco, ancient era, "beads" (artifact)

You need works for Art for the Hermitage, and artifacts do not count.

Usually, if you open culture overview tab and hover your mouse over the building -- Hermitage in this case -- it will tell you what you need for the theming bonus.

Also, here is a thread that explains it nicely and succinctly. I usually just check with this thread because in-game text is confusing sometimes.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=502142

 

[joncnunn]

The AI will spam archaeologists after they get the tech for it. Of course if you had a tech lead it will be awhile before you'll be able to trade artifacts.

Uffizini is indeed a world wonder that the AI's works (weather conquered or traded for) is highly unlikely to help you with theming bonuses.

But Hermitage which only needs different civs & different eras is easy to fill via trade after you find the AI that build the Pantheon.

 

[Laurwin]

Does this mean that France is like, bad civ? (because AI beelines important wonders for France's bonus, like Uffizi/Louvre etc?)

I tried a France game today played for a little bit on king pangea (but I had to interrupt the game becuz I had IRL stuff to do, OH THE HORROR). Let me tell you though, it was a GODLIKE start.

-there was tons of salt, also marble and stone and plains wheat.

-good capital for wonder spam early.

-kilimanjaro mountain training, three bananas, and mountain for second city.

-furs and gems for third city.

BTW which wonders if any, are good for France civ specifically, in BNW expansion? I need to put great works into the capital for extra culture. So, logically I want many great works and slots for great works. Still, it feels like too specialized of a bonus, to be really useful compared to some other perks that the better civs get in this game...

 

[chazzycat]

Does this mean that France is like, bad civ? (because AI beelines important wonders for France's bonus, like Uffizi/Louvre etc?)

I tried a France game today played for a little bit on king pangea (but I had to interrupt the game becuz I had IRL stuff to do, OH THE HORROR). Let me tell you though, it was a GODLIKE start.

-there was tons of salt, also marble and stone and plains wheat.

-good capital for wonder spam early.

-kilimanjaro mountain training, three bananas, and mountain for second city.

-furs and gems for third city.

BTW which wonders if any, are good for France civ specifically, in BNW expansion? I need to put great works into the capital for extra culture. So, logically I want many great works and slots for great works. Still, it feels like too specialized of a bonus, to be really useful compared to some other perks that the better civs get in this game...

no France is amazing, but you are right that wonders are important. But unless you are playing on deity it's not that hard to get a few. You don't need all of them, you can even go without both Louvre & Uffizi and be fine (of course you would want globe/sistine or something instead...). With the way the multipliers work, their UA is very powerful, but you don't really see it until the very end game, so people tend to underestimate it.

 

[joncnunn]

France is much better on Immortal than Diety where you have a much better shot at the Louve.

But also remember that mid game world wonders aren't the only source of art theming bonuses: Hermitage provides it as well.

And while even on Immortal snaging a Writing world wonder would be iffy, Oxford also provides one.

 

[Erneiz Hyde]

France's UA only fires on Museums and World Wonders and not National ones, right? and only in capital so targeting enemy with wonders doesn't help? If you missed both Uffizi and Louvre, chances are you missed Globe Theater and Sistine Chapel as well. The only available shot left is Broadway and SOH if coastal, which means using up precious Musicians instead of their Tours.

 

[Laurwin]

I should be basically peaceful wonder spamm with france thou?

War costs early hammers and gold into units, which detracts from wonder production.

Though admittedly, those are mid-game wonders, which have the great work slots inside them (except parthenon which is early wonder that the AI beelines)

I honestly prefer other early wonders for the actual bonuses that they provide, rather than parthenon for extra culture and great work slot.

-Temple of Artemis. Also hanging gardens in capital (im usually tradition).

-mausoleum (if terrain is good)

-capital not usually coastal - therefore not colossus

-Not really going for petra usually - terrain bias not favoring desert

-machu pichu - if mountains are available

-chivalry for alhambra - because I like knights I want chivalry! knights are good insurance policy for early defensive war

-I would LIKE Leaning tower of pisa, but I don't always get there because my tech paths are often too improvised, not focused enough in mid-game.

-forbidden palace good for the congress votes but it was nerfed from what it used to be.

-sistine chapel good for culture, you get social policies faster, but hammerexpensive wonder.

-Notre dame good for midgame happiness.

 

[pvtjava]

The Great Library (I would think its doable on King) is a good one to kickstart early theming. If you pop 1 Medieval and 1 Ren. Writer, there should be at least one Medieval to trade for among the AI so you get their Medieval and your Ren. for a theme upon the creation of your second Writer. You can also do a Classical/Medieval combo but there may not be anything to trade for yet.

 

[joncnunn]

France's UA only fires on Museums and World Wonders and not National ones, right? and only in capital so targeting enemy with wonders doesn't help?

1. Nope; it works on national wonders as well (provided you build them in Paris)

2. Targeting enemy wonders won't give you the 2X theming bonus directly; but you can probably acquire a decent quanity of great works by targeting those cities which you could then relocate to Paris if/when you have slots.

 

[Memoryjar]

Never played France in deity.
In Immortal : Oracle, Sistine, Pisa, Uffizi, Louvre.
Below : Eiffel Tower, Faith wonders if you can.

Get Archaeology after Public school. Ermitage ASAP
ToA and HG are useful if you can grab them.
I use to play open Tradition and full Liberty for GE and reduce costs for social policies, and free Amphis with Legalism. Never tried full tradition with France. I should but liberty seems too powerful (except for happiness).

1 or 2 city it's a T350 win. 3 around T280/T300 depend your gameplay. 4 under T280 cause many science help to reach Internet fast.

Play peacefull, you'll need open borders for enhance tourism and musician bombs.

 

[budweiser]

I'm thinking if France can take out the culture leaders then they can win it during industrial or early modern. Eiffel Tower would be a cap stone.