WORST leaders to lead a civ?

Bonyduck Campersang

Odd lookin duck
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Inspired by a recent discussion in a thread around here that suggested doing away with the idea of choosing a leader based on whether they are the best possible candidate for a civ, I've decided on a more fun (and controversial) scheme: choosing only the most abject and hapless bimbos who just manage to meet the minimum requirements to be a civ leader.
This is of course all for fun, just an experiment to find the most cursed civ-leader combination.
I'll start:
Nicholas II - Russia
Charles I - England
Louis XVI - France
Nero - Rome (receive Great Musician points each time a natural disaster strikes your city)
 
Nero - Rome (receive Great Musician points each time a natural disaster strikes your city)
I'm going to push back on this a little because while Nero's, and Caligula's, reigns where bad for the senatorial class, aka our sources, they weren't bad for the empire overall. In fact, both emperors were fairly popular in the provinces because things were peaceful and stable, by and large, and the empire didn't really face any kind of disasterous situations similar to the other rulers you listed. If you want truly bad emperors you need go with someone like Otho or one of the short lived emperors like the Crisis of the Third century, like Trajan Decius.
 
I'm going to push back on this a little because while Nero's, and Caligula's, reigns where bad for the senatorial class, aka our sources, they weren't bad for the empire overall. In fact, both emperors were fairly popular in the provinces because things were peaceful and stable, by and large, and the empire didn't really face any kind of disasterous situations similar to the other rulers you listed. If you want truly bad emperors you need go with someone like Otho or one of the short lived emperors like the Crisis of the Third century, like Trajan Decius.
Sure, if any other emperor has as amusing a leader (dis)ability
 
I actually don't think any of these qualify as worst leaders of their civilization. Nikolai II was the clueless and out-of-touch heir of much worse tsars like Alexander III. His cluelessness abetted the revolution, but the revolution was coming anyway. (If anything, Alexandra Feodrovna's anti-Russian obtuseness and gullibility was far more culpable.) Similarly, Louis XVI was clueless and out-of-touch but by no means the worst monarch France ever had; it would have taken a far more savvy politician to stem the tide of the French Revolution. (I'd also add that Marie Antoinette has been vilified beyond all reason. The people liked her, the nobility hated her, and then the Revolution happened at which time she became guilty simply for being queen. People invented wild conspiracy theories about her in the wake of the Revolution, but in reality she was a spoiled, not particularly clever child who was completely unprepared to navigate the trials of the French Revolution. And she most certainly never said, "Let them eat cake," an anecdote that was related while she was still a little girl in Austria.) Charles I was a bad king, no question, but I don't think he even bears comparison to, say, George IV or Stephen of Blois. Basically, all of these leaders except Nero have in common being murdered, but for at least Nikolai II and Louis XVI these were the results of forces far beyond their control. (Charles I was certainly the author of his own undoing, but I'd still maintain he's not the worst England has had.)

So here are my suggestions for alternatives to the civs you listed:
Alexander III - Russia: Reversing virtually all of the reforms his father Alexander II reluctantly made, Alexander III basically paved the way for his son to be murdered by revolutionaries. Alexander II is perhaps given too much credit for his reforms--he basically made them out of well-justified paranoia--but they were a step in the right direction. Alexander III dragged Russia back to the Middle Ages, and the backlash that manifested in the October Revolution was the inevitable result of his reactionary policies. Nikolai II certainly deserves to be blamed for being so incredibly out-of-touch that he had no clue what storm was brewing under his feet, but that storm was set in motion by Alexander III.

France: I'm going to restrict myself to post-Carolingian France (ruling out the very obvious candidate Louis V the Do-nothing). I don't have any one candidate here, but some names I'd put forward would include Charles VI (his reign started out promising, but mental illness took its toll on his reign), any of Catherine de Medici's sons (Francis II died as a child; Charles IX ignored his mother's more temperate policies and instituted rigorous persecution of the Huguenots, died young, and paved the way for the end of his dynasty; and Henri III was probably the best of the three but inherited a weak throne after forfeiting the Polish throne and, once again, died young), and Louis-Philippe "the Citizen King," who combined all of the cluelessness of Nikolai II with positive ineptitude. (I restrict myself to kings--otherwise I think there's little doubt France's worst leader would be Philippe Pétain.)

Rome: Take your pick of any of the litany of emperors whose reigns lasted a few months before they were assassinated and replaced by another military puppet.

England: Charles I isn't a bad choice. He was an able enough ruler, but absolutely senseless to the political realities of the time in which he lived. His competence makes me inclined to pick someone else, though. George I couldn't even speak English. George IV was an intelligent but lazy fop who was more interested in the affairs of the royal bedchamber than affairs of state. Edward VI was a sickly child whose affairs were run by competing ministers. Lady Jane Grey barely lasted a week. Stephen of Blois was weak and indecisive. The much-beloved Richard the Lionheart barely spent six months in his own kingdom and bankrupted it with his crusade, leaving his brother John to take the fall for his own mismanagement. Plenty of candidates here.

Some other ideas:
James "history will vindicate me" Buchanan of the United States.
Montezuma II of Aztecs (oh, wait--we've had him...more than once)
Isaac II Angelos of Byzantium
Tutankhamun of Egypt
Hui of Jin of China
Abdulaziz of the Ottoman Empire
Philip II of the Netherlands :shifty:
 
I actually don't think any of these qualify as worst leaders of their civilization. Nikolai II was the clueless and out-of-touch heir of much worse tsars like Alexander III. His cluelessness abetted the revolution, but the revolution was coming anyway. (If anything, Alexandra Feodrovna's anti-Russian obtuseness and gullibility was far more culpable.) Similarly, Louis XVI was clueless and out-of-touch but by no means the worst monarch France ever had; it would have taken a far more savvy politician to stem the tide of the French Revolution. (I'd also add that Marie Antoinette has been vilified beyond all reason. The people liked her, the nobility hated her, and then the Revolution happened at which time she became guilty simply for being queen. People invented wild conspiracy theories about her in the wake of the Revolution, but in reality she was a spoiled, not particularly clever child who was completely unprepared to navigate the trials of the French Revolution. And she most certainly never said, "Let them eat cake," an anecdote that was related while she was still a little girl in Austria.) Charles I was a bad king, no question, but I don't think he even bears comparison to, say, George IV or Stephen of Blois. Basically, all of these leaders except Nero have in common being murdered, but for at least Nikolai II and Louis XVI these were the results of forces far beyond their control. (Charles I was certainly the author of his own undoing, but I'd still maintain he's not the worst England has had.)
Let me then add another condition: they should be dramatically bad. Stephen and George IV are all very well, but neither of them, I think, had as interesting a reign as Charles'. This is deviating from my original proposition somewhat, but if we were to comb through history for short-lived rulers (Jane Grey and the series of Roman emperors) we'd be left with drab nobodies.*

*Not all of them, of course, before someone jumps on me for this.
 
James "history will vindicate me" Buchanan of the United States.
What about William Henry Harrison? Nothing against him but after the first turn he automatically dies of a disease. :shifty:
Though I guess you could make the argument that he should portrayed before he was president. :)
Though I'd also add Andrew Jackson for similar reasons to Buchanan.
Tutankhamun of Egypt
I still stand by an earlier design of him that he should gain massive amounts of tourism for every Egyptian artifact displayed in a museum. Then again that could just be an Egyptian ability in general. :dunno:
 
Let me then add another condition: they should be dramatically bad. Stephen and George IV are all very well, but neither of them, I think, had as interesting a reign as Charles'. This is deviating from my original proposition somewhat, but if we were to comb through history for short-lived rulers (Jane Grey and the series of Roman emperors) we'd be left with drab nobodies.*

*Not all of them, of course, before someone jumps on me for this.
Fair enough, though Lady Jane Grey was pretty interesting as a person, even if she was only queen for a week and isn't counted on the official king list. You've definitely got a point about Roman emperors, though. For a dramatically bad emperor, I'd put forward Elagabalus. I'm also tempted to put forward Commodus, but TBH scholarly opinion has shifted towards "he was actually a good emperor who was hated by the aristocracy." Still, the guy thought he was the reincarnation of Hercules; if that isn't interesting, I don't know what is. :p

What about William Henry Harrison? Nothing against him but after the first turn he automatically dies of a disease. :shifty:
Though I guess you could make the argument that he should portrayed before he was president. :)
William Henry Harrison would also be a viable candidate--not just for dying immediately after being sworn in but also for being just a generally awful human being even before then. John Tyler also gets points for being hated by everyone (see also: Lyndon B. Johnson). Andrew Johnson for screwing over Reconstruction and whitewashing the Confederacy--Warren G. Harding for being monstrously corrupt--Franklin Pierce for being an all-around weasel--lots of candidates to go around. :p

I still stand by an earlier design of him that he should gain massive amounts of tourism for every Egyptian artifact displayed in a museum. Then again that could just be an Egyptian ability in general. :dunno:
That awkward moment when your greatest accomplishment is being so insignificant that grave robbers forgot to plunder your tomb. :crazyeye:
 
Alexander III - Russia: Reversing virtually all of the reforms his father Alexander II reluctantly made, Alexander III basically paved the way for his son to be murdered by revolutionaries. Alexander II is perhaps given too much credit for his reforms--he basically made them out of well-justified paranoia--but they were a step in the right direction. Alexander III dragged Russia back to the Middle Ages, and the backlash that manifested in the October Revolution was the inevitable result of his reactionary policies. Nikolai II certainly deserves to be blamed for being so incredibly out-of-touch that he had no clue what storm was brewing under his feet, but that storm was set in motion by Alexander III.
From what I've read, Alexander at least had the character and determination to make sure his policies did not cause the country to flare up. In fact, I would say he was quite an impressive ruler (though not morally admirable); it is not everyone who can reverse the progressive policies of his predecessor and not see an immediate backlash seriously challenge his reign. On the other hand, Nicholas was comically bad.
I am curious, what would you say about Louis XIV and Napoleon? From my limited knowledge of French history, I gathered that the French Revolution avalanched from the Sun King's extravagance and expensive wars. Napoleon's egomania left his successors to deal with a country in turmoil and probably delayed the industrialisation of France.
 
I'm also tempted to put forward Commodus, but TBH scholarly opinion has shifted towards "he was actually a good emperor who was hated by the aristocracy." Still, the guy thought he was the reincarnation of Hercules; if that isn't interesting, I don't know what is. :p
Leader Ability: "Are you not Entertained?"- Arenas grant an extra +1 culture. +1 faith and amenities. Your baths however do not provide additional amenities. :shifty:
 
From what I've read, Alexander at least had the character and determination to make sure his policies did not cause the country to flare up. In fact, I would say he was quite an impressive ruler (though not morally admirable); it is not everyone who can reverse the progressive policies of his predecessor and not see an immediate backlash seriously challenge his reign. On the other hand, Nicholas was comically bad.
You're right, but ultimately I have a hard time faulting Nikolai II for not being the tyrant his father was. That Alexandr III was able to delay the revolution for a generation is a certain kind of impressive, but he also made the revolution inevitable. I'm certainly not arguing that Nikolai II was a good leader because he wasn't, but a far better leader could not have prevented the revolution at that point.

I am curious, what would you say about Louis XIV and Napoleon? From my limited knowledge of French history, I gathered that the French Revolution avalanched from the Sun King's extravagance and expensive wars. Napoleon's egomania left his successors to deal with a country in turmoil and probably delayed the industrialisation of France.
I'd say both are complicated. Louis XIV was intelligent and competent, but he was also riding the high prepared for him by Louis XIII and his ministers. He also without a doubt impoverished France with his extravagance and ego-driven wars. Saying he caused the Revolution is probably too much, but he certainly contributed to the conditions that caused it. I think it's hard to call Napoleon a bad leader, though. He reshaped the political, legal, and cultural landscape of an entire continent in a way unprecedented since Alexander the Great or Augustus, and at least some of the changes were good. Some scholars suggest he disrupted any positive changes that came out of the Revolution, but I'd counter that he also checked the extravagant bloodshed and mass hysteria of the Revolution. Nevertheless, like many egomaniacal dictators, his effectiveness in life left his civilization in shambles when he was deposed. I think breaking down either Louis XIV or Napoleon into "good" or "bad" is difficult; I think it's fair to say both were mostly good in their lifetimes but left a heavy burden on France as a legacy.
 
England: Charles I isn't a bad choice. He was an able enough ruler, but absolutely senseless to the political realities of the time in which he lived. His competence makes me inclined to pick someone else, though. George I couldn't even speak English. George IV was an intelligent but lazy fop who was more interested in the affairs of the royal bedchamber than affairs of state. Edward VI was a sickly child whose affairs were run by competing ministers. Lady Jane Grey barely lasted a week. Stephen of Blois was weak and indecisive. The much-beloved Richard the Lionheart barely spent six months in his own kingdom and bankrupted it with his crusade, leaving his brother John to take the fall for his own mismanagement. Plenty of candidates here.
There's also William II Rufus, who was so hated, and apparently so apathetic and irresponsible as King, and coming right off William the Conqueror, to boot, very few tears were shed and probably some celebration when his debauched pleasure ship sank in the English Channel, all hands lost (except that the Anarchy got started shortly after).
 
Wilhelm II (Germany): 'The Great Buffoon': receive a severe diplomatic malus against stronger or equally powerful civilisations



Æthelred II (England): 'Danegeld': when entering your borders barbarians are thrown back to their encampments but only at cost of gold
 
Neville Chamberlain of the UK. "Peace in our time." Force a short-lived cease-fire or non-aggression pact by surrendering hegemony over a city-state - even someone else's. :p
 
Æthelred II (England): 'Danegeld': when entering your borders barbarians are thrown back to their encampments but only at cost of gold
To be fair to our poor-counseled friend, while sources on his reign are very hard to come by other than the vilifying later chronicles, most scholars agree that at the very least he wasn't nearly as bad as his successors accused him of being. The sources are so hostile, though, it's hard to say more than that. :p

Neville Chamberlain of the UK. "Peace in our time." Force a short-lived cease-fire or non-aggression pact by surrendering hegemony over a city-state - even someone else's. :p
Alternative ability: "Peace In Our Time": Force a two-turn non-aggression pact but all cities, regardless of owner, along the target's border become free cities. :p
 
Alternative ability: "Peace In Our Time": Force a two-turn non-aggression pact but all cities, regardless of owner, along the target's border become free cities. :p
Feels like they should just give the target open borders to every other civilization and city-state on the same continent and no grievances to starting wars. :mischief:
 
Louis XVI (France): 'Estates General': The player has to manage relations with three different factions (estates) to administer the state.
Clergy: For faith
Nobility: For military units
Commoners: For builders/workers and working citizens.



Edward VI (England): 'Lord Protectors': social policies are selected randomly
 
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