Writing an Article about this Forum

[AVM]

Hi guys,

As some of you may already know, I'm currently writing an article about this forum for an international conference on knowledge sharing and education (as a part of my dissertation). But if I'm gonna make it in on time, I need your input. And rest assured that you will be included in the acknowledgement section of my article.

Ok, here goes:
1. Can someone provide some basic demographics bout this site : how long has it been up, how many users are on, how many mods / mod packs are hosted?

2. If you have created a mod, map, or have contributed to the generation of content in any way, please let me know what you created and why?

3. Any other info related to your activities, how you started, how long it takes you to produce a product, peers you consult.

4. Could you guys tell me about the user-generated patch that made its way into the official 2k release?

5. Some info about your self, level of education, experience with computers, interest in modding (what you tend to create)

I am highlighting this forum because I actually use and lurk at this site, have since good ol CivIII. I want it and the community it supports to get recognition. As a teacher, I honestly believe that modding is going to pave the way for more innovative, risk taking games that can be created and tweaked by motivated learners.

If you choose to respond, please indicate how you would like to be acknowledged in my paper (by your handle or real name).

I thank you guys in advance for helping me out and remember, even if you can only provide a little information, every little bit helps.

Post your replies in this forum or feel free to email me at my school account
amoshirn@ku.edu

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Dale]

4. Could you guys tell me about the user-generated patch that made its way into the official 2k release?

There was no user-generated patch. If you mean Harkonnen's patch, they didn't use it. They did their own.

 

[Impaler[WrG]]

I think he is refering to the Score Graph which they did incorporate, I belive it was made by Vovon (?sp). You can find it by searching for "Improved Score Graph" under the Mods page.

Ok some responses to your questions;

1: I dont know for shure how long this particular section has been active but it was up and running when I cot Civ4 which was very shortly after release. Its been non-stop modding since then. Mods follow a Power Curve, the vast majority are small and never get played by for then a handfull of players. Each higher level of quality brings greater quality, size, reputation and popularity. I estimate ~1000 small mods to xml files, ~200 medium Python and/or xml mods usaly acting as components for the ~10 supersize mega mod packages. SDK mods are starting to apear and it remains to be seen how extensive they will become due to the much more limited pool of competent moders.

2: I have created some small and medium xml mods in the past focused on expanding aspects of the game I felt needed more variety (see Traits Mod in my Sig). I have now plunged into SDK moding with a heavy emphisis on exposing and controling the new content to XML in a mannor similar to Fixais's. I focus on changing game rules I disagree with or think should have been different, many of the changes are additional effects such as allowing Technology to modify the output of Specialist in the same way Wonders do (thats my current project).

3: As my familiarity with the SDK incresses so dose my speed, my first mods took too days, now I can a medium sized one in a day or two. I dont do much peer review of my code but I post progress reports as many of my mods are responses to wishlist/mod ideas posted on the forums (I do them cause they interest me not for charity). I am involved in the CoreCommunitProject and all my Mods are going to be released under their banner.

4: As I said earlier the Score Graph mod was used by Firaxis in the patch before last (1.59?), In the most resent patch they improved the little Plotlist thingies for units but I am not shure if this was a direct copy of the Mod of the same name.

5: I'm 25 and a second year CIS student at my community college. I am a long term gamer (StarCraft, X-Com, Masters of Orion) but relitivly resent Civ-Addict I got hooked on SMAC well after it had been released and did a little bit of alpha.txt modding. Civ4 is the first actualy "CIV" civilization game I have owned and bought it mainly because of the modability. I mod more then I play.

 

[Chalid]

2. I've created a lot of graphics and some pieces of code (mostly c++) for the fall from heaven project. Furthermore i have released some small changes or usefull pieces of art when i discovered something i thought usefull for the community.
Why did i contribute to the Fall from Heaven project? Now when i realised how moddable CIV really is i thought about creating a fantasy mod of my own. Some time passed (which i mostly used for plaing CIV) an in the meanwhile the FfH Mod that had not gotten much attention from me grew into an quite impressive project. At this time i stumbled over something that was usefull for the mod and i sent it to Kael. Some time later he asked me if i wanted to join the team to develop the mod further, and as it seemed more efficient to work in a team (and the chance to actually produce a good product in a team is by far higher than doing it on your own) i completly dropped the idea to create my own mod and contributet to FfH instead.

3. I startet mostly with digging into XML and using gimp for skins. More recently i learned some 3D modelling and started digging into the SDK. I mostly consult the tutorials and ask people who seem to have solved similar problems to the ones im confronted with. The time modding takes depends on the quality i want to archive and the size of a project. Creating a simle building or modifiing a unit with blender/nif viewer/gimp takes usually one to treee hours. The Dragon i am working at will most probably be something like 40 to 60 hours or even more. When doing SDK changes the te actuall coding is usually very fast. The big part is testing if the modifcation actually leads to the results i hope for. (Im mostly working at the AI for the new features implemented in FfH2)

5. Im a physicist doing my PhD. Im working in the field of computational physics so i have a intese relation to my PC I actually do more modding than playing - as many modders do i think.

 

[12monkeys]

Well, I can give you some answers as well.

to 1.) you better contact Thunderfall or any other site admin for some statistics. They surely provide you with some information.

to 2.) Just check my sig for my mods.

to 3.) I'm playing computer games since I'm 14 years old or so. First on a C64, later on a PC. I always loved Civ, because of its concept and because its turn based (I don't like real time strategy games, way to much stress). Usually I play a game for 1 or two months until get I bored of it. With Civ 4 its something completely different. Due to its modding abilites, I'm still with the game since the first release (and thats really a record for me). In fact, I havn't played the game since 5 month (except for some test turns) but I do modding it. I really love that game.

to 4.) I only know about two : The Improveced Score Graph was made by Ulf Norrell (look for him as "ulfnor" at apolyton). Firaxis did implement the his complete code.
The second one is the Healtch Bar in theplot list. They have been inspired by a mod and took parts of it over to the 1.61 patch, but it was not direct copy.

to 5.) To myself : 39 years old, father of 3 children, engineer of electronics, working as project manager in a software company, former as programmer.

thats it.

Good luck with your article

12m

 

[seZereth]

I already wrote some things into your first thread, so here are some more:

@ 2) When i played civ4 together with a fellow the first time, i saw that combat had graphically improved from civ3 to civ4 and thought, well it would improve much more if the soldiers would be smaller (fitting a bit more into terrain) and more (for more action and visual enjoyment of battles), so i started diving into the formations and made the Regiments mod, where you have groups of 11 men battling each other in real formations (well only graphical effect until now). After that i tried myself with skinning, making units for here and there. Then i saw J_Period, who started the warhammer mod project, he stated that he has programming, but no artistical skills. So i decided to help him out, cause i cant program, but have some skills in creating units (no 3d skills so.. only tectures and nif editing). Well, i ended up being highly motivated to support him and his project. This community is fantastic, and i like providing skills others dont have.

@ 3) almost everything what 12mokeys said at point 3) counts for me as well.

Relating to the time it takes producing things:
Making graphics you like yourself takes some time, but as you keep on doing things, you get better with it and you can create more good things in less time. There where days i spent the whole night without sleep, triing to finish up as many units i could, and there are those 2 hours you have in between to spend on creating.
I started texturing 2 or 3 months ago and got some good feedback on what i do (you could look at the warhammer FB thread in my signature, there are links to the unit graphics forum, if you are interested ).
Cause of the Mod i am supporting, I looked up the miniatures from games workshop and tried to modify existing CIV units to look at least a little bit like the miniatures they should resemble....

@ 5) I am 22 years old and study chemistry now for almost 3 years in Bayreuth, germany. My experience with computers is very primitive, never programmed or anything like that. I like to create graphics, but am no pro at this, do it when i have some time, which is very rare cause of my real life.

Hope this are some pieces of Information that help you, if not, let me know

seZ... somewhere out there aka Stephan Weiß.......

P.S: I actually like the idea of making a study about modding communities, i think its worth finding out why so many people spend so many hours creating things they dont get paied for (ok, i know, it can be soo much fun )

P.P.S: excuse my bad english...

 

[Paasky]

2. If you have created a mod, map, or have contributed to the generation of content in any way, please let me know what you created and why?
I did 3 big mods for civ3 (WWII (Europe), Pirates (Caribbean) & Medieval Times (Own world, sort of like europe)) and a small easter-mod, all can be found in the Stuff I've Made link in the siggy. The main reason for why was that they interested myself, and I ofcourse shared them here.

3. Any other info related to your activities, how you started, how long it takes you to produce a product, peers you consult.
I started with various ideas, but never got past the planning stage, until the WWII. It took me about 1-3 months from scratch to playable, depending on the size & complexity of the mod.

5. Some info about your self, level of education, experience with computers, interest in modding (what you tend to create)
18-year old IT-student, we've had a PC since -97, but I first started playing back in -95. I started playing civ(2) at -97-98. I mod because it's fun, and usually do stuff that happens to interest me atm (Sid's Pirates! had just come out when I did the pirate mod, and we had the medieval times in history when I did that mod).

If you choose to respond, please indicate how you would like to be acknowledged in my paper (by your handle or real name).
real name's Pekko Tuomisto, attach whatever you want with it.


ps. Any royalties?

 

[AVM]

Great, great.

Sorry for the late response, my boss (the head of the design lab I GRA for) basically told me to make him a website on Thursday which was due today, so I've been a busy beaver. I will definitely contact thunderfall, thanks for the input. One thing Ive been pondering is the shift in corp philosophy on modding. For example, in early everquest days, modders authored fixes and were promtly shut down by the suits, whereas today there is a generally more accepting view of mods and modders.

For those of you viewing this thread, please respond, if only to correct my poor assumptions, to suggest future questions, or merely point me to someone else.

Thank you for your submissions to date, and keep um coming.
Andrew

 

[Paasky]

One thing Ive been pondering is the shift in corp philosophy on modding. For example, in early everquest days, modders authored fixes and were promtly shut down by the suits, whereas today there is a generally more accepting view of mods and modders.

I guess that Half-Life was the main reason why this view changed. I never modded it, but it's my understanding that the sales of HL & HL2 were boosted because of Counter-Strike, Day of Defeat, and the numerous other great mods that were made for it.

I actually bought HL because of CS/DoD, same thing with HL2 (although that purchase was made by my little brother).

I guess that before HL, modders were seen as people who violated copyrights by changing stuff, but after the higher ups realised that the mods were actually free add-ons that would boost sales, modders were embraced. And civ is a good example of this: the original civ3 was quite difficult to mod, or atleast to make quality mods, but conquests had all sorts of improvements. And civ4 was built to be as moddable as possible (for a commercial product) from the very beginning.

 

[sgrig]

And civ is a good example of this: the original civ3 was quite difficult to mod, or atleast to make quality mods, but conquests had all sorts of improvements. And civ4 was built to be as moddable as possible (for a commercial product) from the very beginning.

Well, actually Civ2 was far more moddable than Civ3 and moreover with expansion packs such as Fantastic Worlds, and Test of Time, modding was actively encouraged by the makers of Civ2. In this respect Civ3 was a major step back. So modding isn't really such a recent phenomenon - Civ2 was released 10 years ago and already had substantial modding capabilities.

 

[sgrig]

1. Can someone provide some basic demographics bout this site : how long has it been up, how many users are on, how many mods / mod packs are hosted?

This site has been up since Civ2 days (from 1998/99 or so), and there are 91,068 registered members.

2. If you have created a mod, map, or have contributed to the generation of content in any way, please let me know what you created and why?

I've been playing around with modding since Civ2, but never actually got anything major finished. Made simple mods for Civ3 and Civ4 for personal use, just to fix things which didn't seem right. However never released anything publicly, since can't be bothered to provide support for it.

5. Some info about your self, level of education, experience with computers, interest in modding (what you tend to create)

I'm 22 years old, a PhD student in theoretical physics. Used a computer since 1991, have basic programming knowledge.

 

[ice2k4]

2. If you have created a mod, map, or have contributed to the generation of content in any way, please let me know what you created and why?

Mainly, I do it for my own personal enjoyment at first. A corporation can't make the game the exact way everyone wants to play it. So, I start a mod (or join one that incorporates some of my basic ideas) and voila. The reason I like releasing any of my work here, is because I use these forums as a place to gather people who know how to works diffferent aspects of a mod better than me. Since this place provides me with a place to organize my work, and collect a team, I feel I should give back to it, atleast by releasing what I worked so hard on.

5. Some info about your self, level of education, experience with computers, interest in modding (what you tend to create)

I'm 14, although most people don't know that around here, and I'm only a freshman in Highschool (United States.)

I'm pretty experienced in computers for my age. I picked up all this knowledge from a friend who picked it up from his dad, JBDubbs, Al Gorge, Ryan and a lot of other Counter-Strike and Natural-Selection celebs. He and I started a server company for steam based games, so he basically tought me mostly everything I know about advanced computers. Right now, he's been helping learn C++ (He is also 14.)

My interest in modding started back when I was playing my first Civ series game (CivIII.) I did some basic modding, just playing around with it, to have some fun in my own single-player games. When CivIV came out I heard it was a lot more moddable, you could technically edit almost anything. So I started my World2100 mod and suspended my diea for now, because I'm not sure what I really want form it. I decided to join the Eragon Mod team, which I joined right before it got off the ground, and I currently contribute and beta test for the Age of Civilzations SuperMod (both mods are in my signature) because it drastically chanegs the CivIV game to a more realistic view and I'm beginning to get board with plain old CivIV.

Btw, maybe you should have some kind of online interview with ThunderFall. I think that might anwser a few questions.

 

[Shqype]

1. Thunderfall can give the best, most accurate information on website demographics. However, it is clear to see that this is a multinational forum that gets visitors from all over the world.

2. I've made a few civilizations for CIV4. My first publicly released creation was Chechnya, because I respect their struggle for independence and viewed them as an ancient people that deserved recognition in CIV4. It delighted me to get feedback on this forum from an actual Chechen that liked my mod.

My next work was the Basque civilization. The Basques, again, are an ancient people that have their own [unsuccessful] independence movement; although, this civ was not created by my own initiative, but rather as a request that I took from another forum member. It also pleased me to get positive feedback from a few Basques.

My third release was a double civpack of Illyria + Albania. As an Albanian, I am really proud of the accomplishments my people have made since before the beginning of time. I created the Illyrians to represent our ancestors, and to have an ancient civilization to use for TAM, and I created the Albanians to represent us from the medieval period onward. Albanians that have seen the civilizations were happy and impressed with my representation; and Aranor + korvgubben did a great job in skinning the units for me.

As you can see, my first three releases dealt with representing civilizations that I felt deserved representation, and all three are in some way, shape, or form, fighting for their own independence from the present-day states in which they live. Call me an advocate of Woodrow Wilson's "self-determination."

The Illyrian civilization I incorporated into TAM, a mod called "The Ancient Mediterranean." This was one of the most popular mods for Civilization 3, and Thamis, the founder, started it up again for Civ 4. I joined the TAM development team sometime around v1.4 and gave Laurino some help with the coding, who was at that time the lead programmer. With time I became more and more involved in TAM, and Laurino eventually decided to pursue his own projects, so now I am in charge of the programming aspect of TAM. I do this because I not only enjoy it, but it's great to be part of the TAM development team and to work on a great mod that many people love. It is one of the best mods out there (along with SevoMod, Fall from Heaven, and others) and I would strongly recommend giving it a try if you haven't done so already. Plus, I get to play as the Illyrians in TAM, and I wouldn't pass up the chance to re-enact history while playing as my ancestors

I've also had the pleasure of working with Sevo and Wyz_sub10 to release CIV Gold, a civpack featuring 20 new civilizations with unique units and new animated leaders. We wanted to create the most definite civpack for Civilization 4 available by adding more variety and flavor for players. Our first release went quite well, and a second release is in the works. By the third release (CIV Gold 3.0), we hope to allow players the option of choosing 80 different civilizations with which to play a game of Civ.

Recently I released a "template" for CIV4 called "Clean XML," which is meant to provide a type of "blank slate" for new modders so they can create their own mods from scratch without having to remove the vanilla. Someone has found it useful, so that's enough for me. I like helping people out.

3. My first experience with modding Civilization was with CIV 3, and I created the Illyrians as a civilization. At that time I was unaware of CivFanatics, and didn't subscribe to any video game websites. Even now, CivFanatics is the only one I belong to. I started modding CIV4 largely with some introductory lessons from Brent Richie of this forum. He made some XML modding threads in the tutorials section which were very helpful in getting me started. Then, I learned alot more through experimentation and common sense, and then there was always the users on this forum that helped me out when I had a question, especially when I moved into programming in python. Kael created an amazing mod, Fall from Heaven, and in the beginning that was usually the first place I went to when I wanted to see how something was done in Python.

The forumites have been around to help when help was needed, and I consult some of these members when I have questions or need help with something, testing, etc. The length it takes to release product is longer than the length it takes to actually produce it. It doesn't take too long to do the actual programming, but I can be a perfectionist and don't like to release something that isn't finished, so I'll hold off on release until I'm confident it's ready. Plus, I lead a busy life, and don't have all the time I want to work on CIV4.

4. I'm not sure what user-generated patch you're speaking about, but I do know that the creators of Civ are not oblivious to their fan-base and the programmers that mod their game for the fun and enjoyment of everyone that plays Civ. I know of a few modders that now work with Firaxis in some way, whether it be working as an employee and creating mods/maps (like Rhye), or simply being invited as a beta tester and encouraged to provide feedback to make the game better before it gets released.

I feel this is great, as it not only rewards modders for their efforts, but also evolves the game for the better: the fans have great ideas, and for them to be incorporated into the vanilla game just improves it each time.

5. I am 19 years old and live in New York; in the fall I'll be resuming my 2nd year of college at Baruch in Manhattan. I have some basic programming knowledge (I know Java, VB, HTML, XML, some Python, and am restarting learning C++), and am also in Computer Sales at Best Buy. I enjoy modding and look forward to doing things that no one else has done before; I prefer going my own way instead of the way everyone else goes, and I like giving a voice to those that currently have none. I am currently working on a mod that depicts the battles of the Eastern Europeans against the Ottoman Turks while Western Europe was having its Renaissance. It seems everyone takes this timeperiod from the point of Western Europe, and few even understand what struggles the Eastern Europeans were having while the Western Europeans were safe during a mature Renaissance. This mod aims to tell the stories of these nations and their struggles against the Ottomans, especially that of the Albanians under their national hero, Gjergj Kastrioti.

As a teacher, I honestly believe that modding is going to pave the way for more innovative, risk taking games that can be created and tweaked by motivated learners.

I completely agree with you here. It was a great idea to make CIV "the most moddable game ever." With the tools we have, we can create virtually anything we want. I especially respect the programmers that create utilities and modcomponents for everyone to use. While mods and scenarios are great, utilities and modcomponents allow all users (especially those with little programming knowledge) to take concepts and ideas and include them in their own games. TheLopez, especially, has created many mod components and even takes requests. He loves giving people options, so he includes many options in his configurable .ini files. Not only does he have a lot of skill, but his work is very useful to the community. What he does is great. He has a son on the way, and when his son is old enough to play videogames, his dad will be able to program virtually anything his son wants in a game. TheLopez, in my opinion, is a quintessential representation of a modder: he gives users many useful additions to the game while giving them the options to change them how they want. He not only takes requests, but helps people out with their questions and code. He's a real asset to the CivFanatics community, and we have many here!



I hope I was able to help you out in some way. If you decide to include any response of mine in your paper, you can refer to me as "Shqype (Mark Boga)" if it's not too much to ask.

Good luck

 

[Raion]

i think it was best said when someone made a Review over at the Gamespot website when Pirates! came out. He said "Sid is your Daddy!". Although Pirates! is really not a moddable game, some parts like the 'flags' have been changed and some of the clothes the 'Pirate' wears. I think mainly that it started with Civilization II game. There is always some customers of Sid Meiers that are dis-satisfied. That is when it started first with some of the graphics. Some players found out that instead of using the usual graphics with the game back then, they could change some of those, since Sid uses basic files usually that others can find some software to work with it. So starting with Civilization II, since not much could be done with Civilization I in Windows 3.1, some players started changing some graphics around. First was the Advisors in the game of Civilization II, and Elvis was born as an Advisor for the game. Others caught on to the idea, and next, the game was updated by an Expansion pack so Events could be added by a Text file and Scenarios could be made. There were many made that were quite excellent for Civilization II. Next came the Alpha Centauri game, and instead of just playing with the Factions that came in the game, one could Edit a Text file and have values read into the game, and create New Factions. Some players are still playing that game, and Factions like the Vulcans, the Federation, the Klingons, and others were made, and even more by other players. Since the variables can be changed by the Text File, it made the game more interesting and provided something different that players could do, and afterall it keeps the interest up in the game. Most players that play TBS (turn-based strategy games) are not involved with playing RTS (real-time strategy) or FPS games.
They offer usually better graphics, and that is all. There is no real game to think about, and most players of this game (Civilization IV and precessors) usually play a game to have a challenge and to think and not be dumbed down in the process. In playing a Civilization game or the others, the first thing ususally most players do ---> is learn what the game is doing, so the player can beat it, which allows the player to see essentially how it was programmed or how it could be different. The interest level remains higher then and be prepared to only touch the tip of the iceberg here right now on Scenario Design, whether it be NASA maps downloaded and changed for the game, or unique designed Scenarios --> in the future. The interest level will remain high and other games will come and go in the process. The modding community and the player community will have a game to play that can be changed, and new challenges made, well, probably for the next 5 years.

So first, this is just the beginning for any of this as of yet.

I have not created that much as modding or changing things around, but on the forums for the game --> the mods will be. I really think that any game that is not moddable in the future is just another game that holds the interest of the players for a much shorter time, and the game fades rather quickly. In fact those games are sitting on the shelf, and the other games like Civilization II, Alpha Centauri, Civilization III (not so much but can be), and Civilization IV are still on the computer. Although Pirates! is just fun to play and such a game to make.

I did make a map for Civilization III, and made like a Scenario, but I never had it used by other players too much. There are some excellent modders out there, and then there is the rest of us. I also made some Factions in Alpha Centauri and used those, as others made Factions so they could be downloaded. The graphics would have been harder back then to make, so usually just the Faction changes were made, and could be loaded up in the game to use in the game. Sister Marim might say "Are you a believer?"

Those little changes in the previous games represent a community. With the Internet, there may be people you get to meet from around the World. Never know what may happen! Have you talked with your Government Officials to have Government Officials Play the World with their 'red' modem yet? Only a game, not real enough yet, well that is also changing in the future.

With Civilization IV, modding will take more work, for a major mod, and even fantasy worlds will be made with graphic changes. The SDK for the game will allow changing quite a few things and adding things to the game. Games use an 'engine' for the moving around of units, and the physics of the graphics and the core of the game. Either you program one, or you buy one. Nonetheless, it is hard to program an 'engine' and others do that for a living. If someone wants to spend more time making a game and using an engine the Developers bought, then more time can be spent making the game the Producers want to make, and spending less time creating the tools to make the game with. That is also the way graphics are made also. The Developers are not going to create a 'Graphics Program' to make a game with, although being programmers they surely could, and they surely could program an 'engine' also for the core of the game. But games have developed to a much higher level then before when everything was somewhat simplier.

Why mod a game?
A game can be thought of as about like any other program. You have a database of graphics, a database of units in the game, a database of rules for the units or for the game, music or sound effects or movies added in a game, and all of it is ran by the main program for the game. It is about the same as having a store website, except it is both for an individual playing by him/her/spacealien self with that term AI for the game or can be played across the Internet in multiplayer. Now with modding if some players have all the same Mod, then that also can be played as a multiplayer Scenario. Afterall they even may play a modder's Scenario --> in the future.

It is something the player can do, that involves his/her/spacealien self further into the game and represents a change in the game that even may be like having a new game if the Scenario is good enough. I go back to the days of Civilization II, when the Santa and the Reindeer Scenario was made. I did not make it, but the person who did created something totally different than what the game was representing straight out of the box. The other Scenarios also did that, sometimes to reflect upon another game that was well-liked being played by others. The X-COM Scenario for Civilization II was such a Scenario that gave honor to the X-COM game, as well as a MOO Scenario gave honor to another Classic game -- Master of Orion.

Some games like Galactic Civilization II will be able to be modded to include better graphics in the game in the future as computer get faster and more detail can be made. In Civilization IV with a supercomputer, I suppose, one could Model just about the real World. How many players that would take would be quite a few, and it would be very huge and although it seems as if it would be too much for the player, like the game Master of Orion III where the computer could keep track of certain things, all of that could be programmed somewhat into a Mod, and the player still could play it by his/her/spacealien self.

Thus, the real world now has some competition because players could concievely actually "Play the World" someday.

So as small sections of History can be made for the game and represented in a Scenario that someone really knows about, also imagination worlds can also be built with a change in graphics and some additional programming in the files provided with the game. The main reason for Civilization IV is that the modders will also be learning better programming languages techniques used in the game and also learning what it really takes to create a game in the first place. The player can practice their programming by using the game.

The players get a better idea of what goes into a game, awareness increases, and even players who have no idea what to do in learning to mod can still give ideas to the others players learning what to do to mod. Everyone can contribute, and when the Scenario or Mod is made, all of those players and people who contribute can feel a part of the being part of the community who made the Scenario or Mod in the first place.

This all spreads out into the Galaxy someday, and even spacealiens enter into it, and all of it spreads throughout the Universe. Of course, it is not a religion, but is of a distinct religious nature, so it can be construed to be also somewhat of a paranormal and religious experience for some modders and other players of the game and for even those people not even connected with the game. It says "What can I do?" to make this World a better place to be in and live in.

Even what is going on with this World now, can be represented in a Scenario while History is being made. Call the modders -- History Writers that do not write the History, but make a Scenario that 'plays' out the History of Civilization that humans have been making ever since the first humans were on the Planet. Even in Civilization II was the Dinosaurs Scenario. Who knows? If the Dinosaurs may have been around longer, perhaps they could have even been considered to have built a sort of town, and develop like humans did.

With modding, parallel universes can be made in the Scenarios -- different worlds using only the imagination. And now, more people can Step Into The Twilight Zone of the Imagination.

Thank you for your time in reading all of this,

Raion, and all of this was for the price of admission --> the price of the game --> which is small in comparison compared to the enormous affect and difference one single game can make ---> in the History of Civilization.

Of course, one might just say the saying that came out with the Civilization Game in the first place:

Build a Civilization that Stands the Test of Time!

Your dog may just howl at the computer also while you mod at your computer or play the game and try and scratch the screen with its paws.

 

[AVM]

Again, thanks to everyone for continuing to post.

Now let me throw something out there:
I'd argue that the new mod-friendly attitude is a response to two things: Counter-Strike and MMORPGs.

Counter-strike proved that the modding world could intersect the business world and provide a new (free) revenue stream.

MMORPGs are all about user generated content, users crafting their own story, etc. Modding tools are authored to tap into that same creative spirit.

Sorta out of no where, but I wonder if Modding and the growth of FAQs are related.

But anyways Im gonna start a running list of reasons why people mod, and tell me if Im neglecting something.

1. Enjoyment
2. Peer recognition
3. Group Identity
4. Desire for Historicity
5. Boredom/ Increase difficulty
6. Challenge

Thanks again,
Andrew

 

[Padmewan]

Other good examples of modding communities, which I haven't participated in but fascinate me, are the Sims and SimCity. The Sims is particularly interesting because of the very creative uses to which players have turned the game, e.g. writing out stories (some frivolous, others dealing with very serious issues like child abuse).

My main reason for modding is that I want to tell a story that I can't tell using typical, fiction-writing methods. I enjoy the possibility of creating a framework within which players can make choices to create their own stories, preferably one that carries the same literary values as static stories (e.g. morality, symbolism, character development, etc.).

Certainly having a community working with me on a Mod is a big ongoing motivator, but I started my own mod out alone for several weeks before "releasing" it to find like-minded people to join with me.

I think I mod for the same reason as most artists create -- more for self-expression than for recognition. The recognition helps keep me going while the project is underway, but for me, I have "something to say."

 

[Padmewan]

Re: your main thesis, there could be a case to be made about the linkage between modding and Open Source. However, one major issue that distinguishes them is that the latter has a legal framework surrounding it, whereas mods lurk in the shadows of legitimacy. If you look at the mods here, you will see that the vast majority (mine included) engage in some level of IP, um, "borrowing." This, I think, was a major issue with Neverwinter Nights, which disallowed users from charging for mods or for running servers. As a business decision, I think this was a mistake, though I can't say that the user community would have been that much livelier if they had opened up the business model more.

I think if the game companies truly embraced modding, and if modding was a truly economically viable pursuit (which, Counterstrike notwithstanding, it's not -- yet), we would see more games that would operate off an eBay mentality: the game companies supply the tools, and modders run off and not only create but also profit from their creations while the game companies promote and take a slice of the action. One reason why I don't think it's economically viable, based on my limited experience here, is that the tools of the trade are very hard to access by would-be modders (particularly 3D modeling). A second reason is that I don't perceive the demand there: PC games are on the wane, and if you flipped your perspective around and asked your average Civ4 gamer if they have any desire to play a mod, I think the answer will be rather disappointing -- though I hope I'm wrong on that.

 

[Agent 009]

Although I am relatively new to this community I don't see why I shouldn't post here as well.

to #1

you better contact Thunderfall or any other site admin for some statistics. They surely provide you with some information.

I agree with 12monkeys. I have noticed some usernames that registered as far back as 2002. However, I don't know when Civ 1 first came out, so, I would assume this site as been active since sometime around then.

#2 You can also check my sig for a list of my creations. (Details in those topics) I only signed up on this forum back in March just shortly after I had decided to start making a mod of my own. Ultimately, the reasoning for making Throughout the Ages was to make the game much longer so that players can patiently grow and empire and use their military units before they become obsolete.

#3 Well the first mod I published was for a game called Star Trek Bridge Commander. It was a small mod. Only a mod of a pre-existing ship. After making that I went on to Civ 4. It's python code was totally different than from STBC, and I was also completely unfamiliar with XML. So to start, I downloaded some mods and went tweaking things. One parameter here and another there and then went in game to see what changed. It was really a matter of trail and error. Although Python still evades me for the time being, I was still confident enough to attempt creating a fairly decent mod for Civ 4 players to enjoy. Throughout the Ages took me almost 2 months to make. It was a lone project even though the credits section is quite large. I did do all the merging work, XML work, and art work myself. So, I don't know, is 2 months a decent amount of time for mods such as mine? I can't judge for myself, but you can take a look what others have posted in the topic. (link in sig)

#4 It would look as if 12m has replied to this one as well. I don't know of the top of my head as I am still relatively new to this community.

#5 Well, I am 25 years old. I only really started to make mods recently, however, I have been playing video games since I was 5 years old. I unfortunately never finished high school (grade 9 education) so, I really don't have the level of understanding that is required for programming. (although my father thinks I'd be good at it) at the momment I am only capable to minor changes to current coding or merging new code (made by others) into the already existing code. i.e. I merged TheLopez's Sniper Mod and cultural influences into Throughout the Ages. My father is a C++ programmer and has been creating programs of various sorts for the past 25 years. So, I have always had computers at home and have been exposed to them at an early age. I first played games like Wavy Navy, JanitJoe, Donkey Kong, and others on my father's old Apple IIc.

My main interest in modding for civ 4 would entail making a mod that is more simulation style and maybe at some point I will make something more fictional like a fantasy or Sci-Fi Mod. I'm mostly interested in simulations as I have done a lot of racing on simulators.

I hope this will help you out Andrew and good luck on your dissertation.

 

[Raion]

Just for some of the new people here and with the Civilization game. The first one came out and more or less is thought of as the punishment Civilization game -- but it in ms-dos, before Windows was actually made, and more a gleam in Bill Gates eyes with (Heaven Forbid) Windows 286 and Windows 386 or something like that. The first caught-on Windows OS was Windows 3.1, and Civilization I was a game for Windows 3.1. Probably still plays, although I have not tried it. Civilization II came out in 1995 or 1997, and was one of the first games for Windows 95 OS. That is also when Elvis became the Domestic Advisor in the game, later on. The Internet was not really all that much, although there was some of it, and it was still early. The Scenarios that players made came out on CD and was called the Best of the Net (so the Internet had to exist and it did, but more people are on it now than before). Actually there was 2-CDs of Best of the Net, while Sid Meier and the other (oh, Rise of Nations guy) came out with Civlization II and then later some Scenarios also. There was many Scenarios out for Civilization II, and the Best Scenarios showed up and people could buy those Scenarios.
I do kind of envy those Scenario Makers. mmmmmm.........I think the Scenario was more for Master of Magic than Master of Orion. Well, those Master's games. I guess some recent people played Civlization I lately.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilization/index.html

must work still as much as CivII:Fantastic Worlds.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civ2fantasticworlds/index.html?q=Civ II Fantastic Worlds

Although I thought it was good with all the Scenarios, but still there also was the Best of the Net ones also that if players could not download, one could also buy the CDs of those Scenarios.

Also, usually a Producer may come out with a game, and it can not be changed, and some players just do not like it, or can think of a way that possibly could have made the game better, but the communication is more one-sided so interest is lost with those games.

With Civilization then, some players decided that it would be nice to have someone let them build Scenarios or change things around in the game they differed with from the Producers who made the game.

I sure as Warlords Expansion is coming out this Summer, there may be more added to the game, and the Expansion will add something to the game of Civilization IV as much as Civ III Conquests did to that game. Some players are still playing that game still also.

It takes time to make Scenarios and having a forum like CivFanatics is a place where others can help, or just add what they already know, while others can read and try it out.

Thanks for your time again,
Raion
(I give my age but since I am older, I will just reply.)
Now for something totally different -- download a Scenario or Mod and see how it goes. You know the game, but do you actually know the Scenario yet.

And it is American.