madviking
north american scum
Not really. I would argue it's been that since only the 1960s.
Do you believe in the American exceptionalism
- Thread starter Ahovking
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Not really. I would argue it's been that since only the 1960s.
What Ireland did was impressive, but the scale of the conflict was MUCH smaller than that of the American Revolution. Indeed, independence only came during/after WWI, when the UK had bigger things to worry about, and the entire world was beginning its decolonization trend. And in that day and age, a full-scale British invasion of Ireland, with thousands and thousands of men, would not have happened. I don't know much about Irish history beyond how it relates to Europe, so I may be wrong on some points.
Well, that fact that any citizens outside the nobility/wealthy had a say in politics, even if a sizable minority (in some places majority) had limited rights, is enough to differentiate it from most of Europe for at least the 19th to early 20th century. The word "liberal" has wildly different implications depending on the time period - applying modern day "liberal" to times pre-1960s isn't really fair or realistic. The fact that slavery went on for so long in America is a bad thing, but it does differentiate the USA from the rest of the world, doesn't it? Latin America abolished it around America's time, and I believe the Middle East just barely got rid of the practice.
holy king
Deity
yes, america is a country with special needs.
holy king
Deity
well, good thing the two party system ensures your choice will be between obama and a socially backwards moron.
Every country has a unique set of geopolitical circumstances, resources, history, etc. that has influenced its development. Saying crudely that "sure, everyone's different, but the USA is more different-er than everyone else" is not a strong argument.
And saying that "everyone is different, so any argument about the uniqueness of a something is irrelevant" isn't either.
In a discussion about "exceptionalism", which has a connotation of superiority, I would disagree. Acknowledging differences in history does not necessarily imply a moral judgment of superiority, which is what this whole "American exceptionalism" garbage brings to the table. At least, if you listen to the talking heads on TV.
warpus
In pork I trust
America is indeed exceptional in its own attachment to its supposed exceptionalism.
Though I hear Poland is pretty into itself too?
Nah, we accept that Poland sucks. We like USA
That's the problem, where is this "American exceptionalism=American superiority" come from? Just because something is different doesn't mean it's better. Is this topic about America being better than everyone else?In a discussion about "exceptionalism", which has a connotation of superiority, I would disagree. Acknowledging differences in history does not necessarily imply a moral judgment of superiority, which is what this whole "American exceptionalism" garbage brings to the table. At least, if you listen to the talking heads on TV.
Hitti-Litti
Deity
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Well have you ever heard anyone use the word "exceptional" in a negative sense?
"You heard that Friday song?"
"Yeah, it's exceptional, never heard anything worse than that.
The idea of American exceptionalism doesn't involve the connotation of the word, simply what the word means: different. All countries except America. The concept and term of American Exceptionalism have probably been around longer than the connotation of "exceptional" usually meaning good.
...
Connotation is always, always, communicated. If you read the link, it says "...in addition to the word or phrase's explicit or literal meaning". It's the same with political messaging (which is all this AE is, frankly): do you call the healthcare bill by its proper name ("Affordable Care Act", or something like that) or do you try to slander a politician's name ("Obamacare")? Do you call it the "Estate Tax" or the "Death Tax"? I can go on.
Also, I'm quite amazed by your last sentence. I have to admit I don't have the etymology for these guys handy, but a quick Google search shows "exceptional" was used in its current meaning at least as early as the 1840s. According to the wiki, the "AE" term was first used by the American Communist Party in the 1920s.
Sounds like you have a chronology problem.
warpus
In pork I trust
I really hate American hot dogs. They suck. Down with America!
Perhaps I was wrong with the fact that the term "American exceptionalism" has been around longer, but the concept that America was different from Europe and the rest of the world has been around - search Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville. This is during the 1830s, during the conservative Concert of Europe. Back then, America was definitely at another plane from Europe. Now, not so much. It's still a superpower, still a cultural hearth, technological center, industry center, economic center, melting pot, etc etc. Yes, this preeminence is fading away, but it will still linger for the next century or so.
I can see why people might not believe in American exceptionalism, but I don't understand the, might I say, rabid-like rejection of the idea. If you look up the word exceptional, it can be unusual or good. This term, as far as I understand it, uses the former definition. By assuming that American exceptionalism has positive connotations, you read into an implication that may or may not be there.
To make my position clear, I believe in American exceptionalism in the sense that America is different, not inherently superior or inferior. Being more democratic than the rest of the world earlier may be good, but being a "world-police", "cultural/political dominator", and "intervener" may not be. With lots of positives and negatives, it's difficult to make a judgement either way.
There is clearly good and bad, but America's influence on the planet, overall, has been positive, and it has been massive.
And it has overshadowed, by far, the influence that any other nation has had on the course of human history.
If that doesn't meet your definition of "exceptional," your definition is wrong.
And it has overshadowed, by far, the influence that any other nation has had on the course of human history.
If that doesn't meet your definition of "exceptional," your definition is wrong.
I agree with you, but the influence, good or bad, of America isn't entirely relevant to American exceptionalism. America was defined as exceptional or different in the early 19th century, when American influence on the world was relatively low.
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