I hate to be blunt here, but I'm essentially the one calling the shots here, so you're going to find it hard pressed to convince me to stray too far from that concept that I originally designed. I understand that you have a completely different frame of mind when it comes to designing this civ (you want it to be wide) - but you have to understand that I'll be making the executive decisions when it comes down to the final tweaks and designs. Interesting is subjecting, and it's gotten us this far.
I think this is a tad unwarranted, you explictly asked for us to come up with designs, and my reply was in response to you actually saying 'What don't you like about this civ?' which I answered to the best of my ability. Of course I know who's calling the shots, just there's no point asking people what's wrong with a design if you don't take in what they say. I'm not saying we have a right to change it, just if you don't want an answer, don't ask the question.
(Also I dropped the wide thing ages ago man)
I'll say this again but here are the things that I want to be included and represented in this civ:
- "A Favorable Name UA" that reprents settling in Polar regions and is representative of immigration
- Walrus
- Mead Hall
- Incetive for Trade
- Incentive for Exploration
- Incentive for settling in Polar Regions
Yeah, I included all those elements in my design, not sure what the point is here, not least because the UA you presented doesn't provide an incentive for exploration, just the means to do it.
In the base game, Russia and Sweden both have Tundra start biases, yet none have any unique attributes regarding food. The Inuit have a Snow start bias, making their cities nice in snow, but godly in Tundra. The Inuit UA gains food after expanding unto a significant amount of territory to keep their cities just sustainable - the Greenlandingar will not have this problem.
I feel like this just enhances my point, Vanilla civs, Russian and Sweden, have the same start bias, but both deal with it in completely different ways, whereas both the Inuit and Greenland UA boil down to 'Extra food in snow and tundra cities', yeah the nuances of it are slightly different but at heart they are the same UA, especially when you throw in the Walrus. The Inuit is a great civ, and I think adding a similar but slightly less specialised version is a bit of a mistake because then, why bother playing Greenland?
I agree, this isn't really what you'd call super exciting gameplay - but it's certainly something that I'd like to play. I find that this design in it's current incarnation allows you to be as free as say the Boers without the restrictions of a civ like Vietnam. And you know what - sometimes less is more. Many complaints about CL civs is that they're too gimmicky. Hence why we're going through all of them again and giving them a makeover.
I don't think any of the many civ ideas given here are restrictive or gimmicky, if you ask me, I mean, yeah, yours isn't, but I'd rather you focus on making a great civ than making 'your idea work'. I dunno, I can see already a few people have made similar comments to me, I just don't know if everyone feels the same as you here.
I guess my interpretation was more subjective. I see it as breaking a bottle on the back of a boat -> prior celebration before a long (30 Turn) voyage. Where else would the adventurers and merchants celebrate such a thing?
Oh I suppose that
does make sense actually, fair enough!
I'm not a fan of this UA, mainly because it encourages you to work Polar tiles. I don't think the Greenlandingar really worked Polar Tiles, rather settled near them and worked what wasn't. I also want to avoid overlap with Iceland, seeing as they get free bonuses for settling on other continents. Iceland also gets GP points for doing specific quests.
Oops, that was meant to be 'workable' not 'worked' as in the original design at the very start, when they provided culture rather than GM points. The only bonus right now for settling other continents is the Walrus when a trade route is connected, which I think is pretty different to JFDs Iceland, requiring a trade route and tundra tiles.
In terms of the Mead Hall, garrisons are nice and fun, but stand to be extremely powerful when combined with Oligarchy and Military Caste which would mean that each unit garrisoned would provide +4 Culture, +2 Happiness and no maintenance cost (and if it's an Aeventyra it'd provide all that and +20% TR range). This Mead Hall also has a crazy amount of abilities and needs to be simplified. A Merchant Slot, Garrison Buffs, Additional Garrison Buffs, Happiness, No Maintenance and a Trade Boost.
I suppose, but I'm not sure that's actually a huge amount of culture, 4 is a lot, yeah, but it requires a social policy and a garrison, and the happiness isn't much more than the circus it replaces, as the base building only provides 1 happy while noone is garrisoned. I never suggested the MH having no maintenance, and I'd be happy to sacrifice the Merchant slot, I just liked the idea of Adventurers swapping stories and providing entertainment, and hopefully leaving with grand ideas about sailing off to find adventure of their own. This is definitely my favourite part of my design, and I'd be interested to see what other people think of the 2 mead hall designs.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on how you'd include Walrus turingmachine. I don't necessarily see anything too blasphemic about a wandering naval resource. If anything yes, the Walrus I'd a gimmick, but far less so than 90% of the current CL civs.
Honestly, I think my earlier idea of 'Polar cities on a different continent to the capital gain the unique 'Walrus' luxury resource when a naval trade route is connected to that city. ' is separate from any other civs (mainly thinking the Sioux crossover here.) and not very gimmicky. It also makes sense, Walrus were hunted for their Ivory, why would they hunt them if there was no trade going on?