warpus
In pork I trust
Really, you think he will invest in infrastructure? Won't that lead to higher taxes? I thought that Republicans generally want for the government to spend less, not more.
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metalhead
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He's not a Republican. That's why it will be an interesting fight. Both policies will, actually, because Republicans are pretty unified in opposition to the spending required for infrastructure above what is absolutely necessary, and are opposed to family leave on principle. Meanwhile, Democrats would be 100% on board with both.
You could easily deficit spend for the infrastructure bill, but that wouldn't make it any more likely to pass.
You could easily deficit spend for the infrastructure bill, but that wouldn't make it any more likely to pass.
BvBPL
Pour Decision Maker
For most of the decades he's been a Democrat though!
Although its not like predicting Clinton's actions would have been any easier,.
warpus
In pork I trust
I realize that, but he wants to lower taxes, right? Where is all this money for grand infrastructure works going to come from? And how is he going to convince the house or senate to go along with this?
schlaufuchs
Break My Heart
Well taxes don't actually pay for anything in a literal sense. So, same place every other Government project comes from. Printing money.
metalhead
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If you think politicians are going to have a backbone and stand on principles, then you have fundamentally miscalculated these people. The most likely scenario is that they cave instantly, put some meager revenue offset in the bill, paper over the fact that they're borrowing to pay for it, and then they'll go on their way. Deficit hawks will complain, but nobody will listen. The solace being, nobody should ever listen to deficit hawks.
Meanwhile, I'm getting to a fever pitch in response to many people, but mostly Joe Scarborough, insisting that coastal liberal elites stop being coastal liberal elites. This morning they went on about how the SNL cold open was inappropriate in tone, because an awful lot of Americans are not upset that Hillary lost. I'm getting tired of this. If Middle America can't be asked to consider why we're in mourning, why people are reacting the way they are to what rightfully feels like a huge step backward in the struggle for a more equal society, then we might as well not bother having a country.
Meanwhile, I'm getting to a fever pitch in response to many people, but mostly Joe Scarborough, insisting that coastal liberal elites stop being coastal liberal elites. This morning they went on about how the SNL cold open was inappropriate in tone, because an awful lot of Americans are not upset that Hillary lost. I'm getting tired of this. If Middle America can't be asked to consider why we're in mourning, why people are reacting the way they are to what rightfully feels like a huge step backward in the struggle for a more equal society, then we might as well not bother having a country.
Oh no. They're multiplying
hobbsyoyo
Deity
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You're forgetting the magic sauce that says the Republicans can deficit spend as much as they want and most of the don't care about national debt until a Democrat does it.
warpus
In pork I trust
That could actually be very good for the country, deficit spending for large-scale national infrastructure projects is not such a bad idea, depending on the circumstances.
What sort of infrastructure projects do people predict, though? Just a replacement of all the bridges and the building of sidewalks and stuff like that, or something more like high speed rail? Or is Trump anti-train and pro-car?
What sort of infrastructure projects do people predict, though? Just a replacement of all the bridges and the building of sidewalks and stuff like that, or something more like high speed rail? Or is Trump anti-train and pro-car?
Yeah, this is how it goes. The budget deficit doubled under Australia's Liberal-National government, but this doesn't matter. Because everyone knows it is the Labor Party that increases debt and deficit, and Liberal Party that lowers them.
The whole point of Trump is no one can predict Trump. He might even turn out to be a figurehead president for the GOP in which case what he wants won't matter.
warpus
In pork I trust
I mean, just look at what sort of companies he's got his money in. If he's invested into rail companies, then you can probably expect rail infrastructure. But if he's got money in the automotive sector, then you can probably expect highway improvements.
innonimatu
the resident Cassandra
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Oh no. They're multiplying
We're taking over the world, yes... even if it takes strange alliances of occasion
Are that many people really focused on the latter? An uninspiring centrist losing in and of itself is hardly the pressing concern here.
Farm Boy
they're all reactions
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Well, by what I've seen, yes?
What I'm focusing on was the "not understanding why we're in mourning part" which appears twofold. One, yes, people were that excited about the first female president. Two, not only did they not get history, they got a pussygrabber. Somebody who appears to embody an urge to undermine, disempower, and destroy positive values which they and their parents have toiled and sacrificed to build and that they hope their children will enjoy. The disappointment is real.
But here's the part I'm trying not to be a richard about - "Middle America can't be asked" to consider why people are in mourning? Tossing aside the fact that we're hardly monolithic(since it really should go without saying) and instead addressing broad cultural differences, which I'm happy to generalize upon: I think they know man. Maybe in ~2036 when "not Middle America" still hasn't gotten a candidate that bothers to speak to them, they can move on from mourning and get around to being genuinely pissy. Triple bonus unsettling points for Bootstoots' prognostication about identity politics mutating into White Identity politics finally progressing to the point where we can unequivocally see one of the cancerous offspring of that imperfect worldview.
What I'm focusing on was the "not understanding why we're in mourning part" which appears twofold. One, yes, people were that excited about the first female president. Two, not only did they not get history, they got a pussygrabber. Somebody who appears to embody an urge to undermine, disempower, and destroy positive values which they and their parents have toiled and sacrificed to build and that they hope their children will enjoy. The disappointment is real.
But here's the part I'm trying not to be a richard about - "Middle America can't be asked" to consider why people are in mourning? Tossing aside the fact that we're hardly monolithic(since it really should go without saying) and instead addressing broad cultural differences, which I'm happy to generalize upon: I think they know man. Maybe in ~2036 when "not Middle America" still hasn't gotten a candidate that bothers to speak to them, they can move on from mourning and get around to being genuinely pissy. Triple bonus unsettling points for Bootstoots' prognostication about identity politics mutating into White Identity politics finally progressing to the point where we can unequivocally see one of the cancerous offspring of that imperfect worldview.
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aelf
Ashen One
Toxic mix of religiosity and right-wing conservatism is sure to keep the white working class down even as they keep complaining that no one fights for them. Personal responsibility is for the racial minorities.
metalhead
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Do they? Do they understand how bad people of color felt when they woke up under attack on Wednesday morning? Do they understand why we found Trump's rhetoric so disturbing? It's not just that it tramples on our values - we can teach our kids values whether or not our president embodies them, most of us.
What we can't do is look our friends, our neighbors, my kid's teacher in the eye and assure them this won't go horribly wrong for them. And that we did as much as we could on their behalf, that it isn't partly our fault that they now feel physically unsafe in their own country.
Do they get that, really? Does that register? Because the rash of "get over it" posts in my Facebook feed suggests that no, such understanding does not necessarily runneth over from the people who supported Trump. They have the luxury of being separated from the people this affects negatively. Us liberal elites interact with them every day, and care about their safety and well-being.
And you know what the worst part is? This bumbling threat they've elected isn't going to do anything to improve their situation. Maybe the other one wasn't either, but she wasn't threatening their physical safety. They'd still be stuck in their rather bad situations, but at least they wouldn't have significant additional vulnerability piled on top of it.
What we can't do is look our friends, our neighbors, my kid's teacher in the eye and assure them this won't go horribly wrong for them. And that we did as much as we could on their behalf, that it isn't partly our fault that they now feel physically unsafe in their own country.
Do they get that, really? Does that register? Because the rash of "get over it" posts in my Facebook feed suggests that no, such understanding does not necessarily runneth over from the people who supported Trump. They have the luxury of being separated from the people this affects negatively. Us liberal elites interact with them every day, and care about their safety and well-being.
And you know what the worst part is? This bumbling threat they've elected isn't going to do anything to improve their situation. Maybe the other one wasn't either, but she wasn't threatening their physical safety. They'd still be stuck in their rather bad situations, but at least they wouldn't have significant additional vulnerability piled on top of it.
Farm Boy
they're all reactions
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No, Aelf it's not. It's for everyone including liberals who've been bizatching for years that the mood has been getting worse, some of them aren't just mad about President Trump, they're mad that they've been ignored long enough that we got around to the point where we elected President Trump. Is this really that complicated? I agree, for what it's worth, about your assessment. Which is why I would very much like liberals on my side instead of the hard core capitalists. I get the feeling they'll just eventually become so heavy on the scale that they'll start winning while still not bothering to care. Ah well, I can hope!
Metalhead, I'm not arguing virtue here, I'm arguing understanding: and yes, they get the feeling of the encroachment of a culture they find barbaric and uncaring. Their children are overdosing and killing themselves at alarming rates. Which is why the less introspective think people are acting like spoiled brats. But why focus on those people? They're not particularly introspective. There are much better people to work with.
Metalhead, I'm not arguing virtue here, I'm arguing understanding: and yes, they get the feeling of the encroachment of a culture they find barbaric and uncaring. Their children are overdosing and killing themselves at alarming rates. Which is why the less introspective think people are acting like spoiled brats. But why focus on those people? They're not particularly introspective. There are much better people to work with.
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aelf
Ashen One
Ah, yes, I guess personal responsibility is for liberals too. Just not for the white rurals.
Why has the relatively left-wing party become the elitist party? Maybe that has something to do with the historical irrational preference for voting on the bases of religious issues and traditional values (including, ironically, the virtue of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps) among less-educated white voters? How can you even talk to these people when they won't listen to you unless you agree that abortion is murder, welfare is socialism and gay marriage is the devil's work?
This isn't just an American thing. It's a problem that all left wing movements have faced for decades. They talk about improving the lot of the common man, but here comes a rich guy or a military man extolling traditional values (which typically include, of course, not using the state's resources to feed the hungry) and the rural types flock to these dudes. And then the left gets blamed for not engaging those people. It's a joke. I think the only course of action left is to watch these types to continue to flail about and slowly die as the wait in hope for the messiah.
