Snap UK General Election

[Arakhor]

According to the Guardian, the EU (withdrawal) bill – published on Thursday and known as the “great repeal bill” which will formally enact Brexit – includes a clause that says: “The charter of fundamental rights is not part of domestic law on or after exit day.”

According to Wikipedia, the Charter contains some 54 articles divided into seven titles. The first six titles deal with substantive rights under the headings: dignity, freedoms, equality, solidarity, citizens' rights and justice, while the last title deals with the interpretation and application of the Charter. Much of Charter is based on the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), European Social Charter, the case-law of the European Court of Justice and pre-existing provisions of European Union law.

Spoiler Summary of the CFR :

• The first title (Dignity) guarantees the right to life and prohibits torture, slavery, the death penalty, eugenic practices and human cloning. Its provisions are mostly based on the ECHR, although Article 1 closely reflects Article 1 of the German Basic Law.
• The second title (Freedoms) covers liberty, personal integrity, privacy, protection of personal data, marriage, thought, religion, expression, assembly, education, work, property and asylum.
• The third title (Equality) covers equality before the law, prohibition of all discrimination including on basis of disability, age and sexual orientation, cultural, religious and linguistic diversity, the rights of children and the elderly.
• The fourth title (Solidarity) covers social and workers' rights including the right to fair working conditions, protection against unjustified dismissal, and access to health care, social and housing assistance.
• The fifth title (Citizen's Rights) covers the rights of the EU citizens such as the right to vote in election to the European Parliament and to move freely within the EU. It also includes several administrative rights such as a right to good administration, to access documents and to petition the European Parliament.
• The sixth title (Justice) covers justice issues such as the right to an effective remedy, a fair trial, to the presumption of innocence, the principle of legality, non-retrospectivity and double jeopardy.
• The seventh title (General Provisions) concerns the interpretation and application of the Charter. These issues are dealt with above.

Can anyone tell me what is so objectionable that the Government bill wants to ensure that those protections do not pass into UK law?

 

[Takhisis]

Erm, Arakhor, one of the major changes to their platform between the 2015 and 2017 elections was that for the latter they added express disapproval of this ‘human rights’ nonsense. They gained 10% of the total vote, give or take, which rounds out to a 30% increase. When is that not a mandate?

 

[tjs282]

I don't disagree.

But then what's an election but a glorified opinion poll?

True, but one major difference is that an election is legally binding on the government of the day...

EDIT: Ah, scrolling down I see that someone else made that point already

 

[Arakhor]

I'm beginning to think that perhaps this is all such a total disaster, simply to show people the results of an unplanned Brexit, just so May can U-turn at the last moment and be done with it all.

Well, it's either that or that the government has proven itself time and time again that it is not only manifestly incapable of handling the greatest political event of the last 40 years, it also appears to have not even considered that this might be a difficult task!

 

[Hrothbern]

I'm beginning to think that perhaps this is all such a total disaster, simply to show people the results of an unplanned Brexit, just so May can U-turn at the last moment and be done with it all.

I would grant a Mitterand to be able to such a move even including first launching the referendum to get rid of UKIP and finishing off after the disaster becomes clear to the voters.
He did something like that with the Communist Party.

But May ???


On the other hand... she is a cornered cat by now..... and they tend to jump in any direction to get out.
So why not use the opportunity ?

 

[tjs282]

I'm beginning to think that perhaps this is all such a total disaster, simply to show people the results of an unplanned Brexit, just so May can U-turn at the last moment and be done with it all.

Is that even possible though? I mean, she's already triggered Article 50, so the 2-year countdown is now running -- isn't she now legally obligated to follow through, per the Lisbon Treaty conditions? i.e. Aren't we already past the point at which the EU27 are going to be willing to accept "No, sorry, that was all a ghastly mistake, I didn't mean it"?

Given that May was (also) pro-Remain prior to the Referendum, I also still don't really understand why the Cons chose her as their new leader. I mean, if her heart's not in it (hence all her wishy-washy, meaningless 'Brexit means Brexit'-type soundbites ever since...), she's hardly going to be the best person to organise a Brexit, is she?

(Not suggesting, mind you, that I would have preferred BoJo the Clown to take over instead -- he's Britain's comedy-version of Donald Trump, as far as I'm concerned...)

 

[Hrothbern]

Is that even possible though? I mean, she's already triggered Article 50, so the 2-year countdown is now running -- isn't she now legally obligated to follow through, per the Lisbon Treaty conditions?

If the UK and the EU both decide to "reset" the relation as before, it is possible.
A EU condition could be that all the special UK privileges stop in 3 year or so.
And I can imagine that such a deal would mean for the UK to draw up a better worked out Brexit proposal already negotiated with the EU, as a kind of two speed template.
Could be one with the single market but without the net funding to other EU countries and without interference in UK sovereignty like for example the quota for refugees etc.
The next referendum could be done in 1-2 years, giving the voters a more informed choice on what they are voting for with specific pre negotiated scenarios.

 

[Arakhor]

But May ???

Well, they say that you should assume incompetence before malice, but this whole fiasco has been handled so badly ("Baby's First Brexit" would probably be handled better!) that I'd prefer to think that it's actually a Remain conspiracy by the Metropolitan Liberal Ivory Tower Elite to secretly and with malice foreaforethought thwart the Will of the People and ultimately return us to the EU.

 

[tjs282]

Well, they say that you should assume incompetence before malice, but this whole fiasco has been handled so badly ("Baby's First Brexit" would probably be handled better!) that I'd prefer to think that it's actually a Remain conspiracy by the Metropolitan Liberal Ivory Tower Elite to secretly and with malice foreaforethought thwart the Will of the People and ultimately return us to the EU.

One can only hope. At least that way I'll get more than 18 months to improve my (still poor) spoken German up to citizenship-standard.

Or, seeing as May seems determined to revoke all your human rights and/or turn the UK into a 3rd-world country, maybe I'd become eligible to claim refugee-status instead...

 

[Hrothbern]

Well, they say that you should assume incompetence before malice, but this whole fiasco has been handled so badly ("Baby's First Brexit" would probably be handled better!) that I'd prefer to think that it's actually a Remain conspiracy by the Metropolitan Liberal Ivory Tower Elite to secretly and with malice foreaforethought thwart the Will of the People and ultimately return us to the EU.

With Corbyn jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon whipping his party to vote art 50 without any amendments and staying overall as low profile as possible re the Brexit ?

 

[Silurian]

If the UK and the EU both decide to "reset" the relation as before, it is possible.
A EU condition could be that all the special UK privileges stop in 3 year or so.
And I can imagine that such a deal would mean for the UK to draw up a better worked out Brexit proposal already negotiated with the EU, as a kind of two speed template.
Could be one with the single market but without the net funding to other EU countries and without interference in UK sovereignty like for example the quota for refugees etc.
The next referendum could be done in 1-2 years, giving the voters a more informed choice on what they are voting for with specific pre negotiated scenarios.

I can not see the EU agreeing for the UK to stay in for a few more years then possibility vote to go out. It is very difficult for governments and bussiness to plan for the future with this continued uncertainty.

If May was to resign and call a second referendum before March 2019 it would split the Conservatives. I think May would view leaving the EU as better for the UK than a Labour government.


Meanwhile from The Guardian

""EasyJet is to open a new European headquarters in Austria to enable it to continue to operate flights within the EU after Brexit.""

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/14/easyjet-austria-eu-flights-brexit

 

[Hrothbern]

If May was to resign and call a second referendum before March 2019 it would split the Conservatives. I think May would view leaving the EU as better for the UK than a Labour government.

Agree
Self preservation seems to me as more important for the Conservative party than the well-being of the people of the UK.
(and yeah... the Tories would certainly counter that with: "we are the well-being of the people of the UK)

""EasyJet is to open a new European headquarters in Austria to enable it to continue to operate flights within the EU after Brexit.""

Yes
we see now lots of collateral damage happening and emerging.
I think the question is: would we see more collateral damage from a later but orderly withdrawal that includes a single market ?

To be honest: IDK. I have no clear facts and arguments on that. It is just to chaotic and everybody is playing his own cards.
So you could be right.
It is more my belief (or naivety) that in most situations continuity and harmony bring more than big disruptive changes.

 

[Arakhor]

With Corbyn jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon whipping his party to vote art 50 without any amendments and staying overall as low profile as possible re the Brexit ?

I never said that it was a good or sensible conspiracy theory, but clearly that's Corbyn's ruse to continue to fool the Great British Public and stop Her Majesty's Loyal Eurosceptics from enacting the Democratic Will of the People.

 

[Borachio]

What a muddle it all is!

Still, that's pretty much situation normal for the UK.

And even if the worst comes to the worst, the UK will be trading under WTO rules in 2 years time.

 

[Verbose]

Aren't we already past the point at which the EU27 are going to be willing to accept "No, sorry, that was all a ghastly mistake, I didn't mean it"?

Probably not. No one in their right mind on the EU side actively thinks this is better. IF the UK wants to U-turn it still can. What we're past though is any kind of situation where the UK in that case can name any kind of terms for its return. It's likely going to have to take whatever terms are granted. Since this WAS all the UK's idea in the first place.

 

[Borachio]

When were we in a situation when the UK could name any kind of terms for its return?

I think I must have missed that moment.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Why would it be a "return" if we never left?

 

[Verbose]

What a muddle it all is!

Still, that's pretty much situation normal for the UK.

And even if the worst comes to the worst, the UK will be trading under WTO rules in 2 years time.

Which is entirely viable. Provided the UK begins to set its own house in order for doing so. The worrying signs seem to be that the UK so far isn't doing that in earnest either. You know, planning ahead for THAT future...

 

[Verbose]

When were we in a situation when the UK could name any kind of terms for its return?

I think I must have missed that moment.

It did secure a bunch of perks for itself as a member, right up to when it decided to leave. Those can be kissed goodbye.

 

[Verbose]

Why would it be a "return" if we never left?

Well, the UK HAS effectively told the continentals that it's already gone.

It might still be living in the house, but the kind relationship it used to be is already over, unless the UK has a change of heart, and puts in the effort to mend things.