Akka
Moody old mage.
Not really a "rumor", plenty of videos showing shells in gardens around the blast zone.
[RD] Russia Invades Ukraine: The 7th Thread Itch; scratch it here!
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
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Verbose
Deity
It kind of is random – it's a kind of "mocaic" approach to repression. Probably you can get away with saying stuff – most of all if no one seems to care about you doing it – but you can't know for certain the authorities won't come down like a ton of bricks and made an example of you either. Best to self-censor and not risk anything. Not that anyone has really forbidden you from anything then of course... And it's probably worse in the US, or EU, like it says on the telly...
Thorgalaeg
Deity
Pootin's rubble has finally reached parity with the penny.
The epic battle of civilizations continues as the heroic forces of the west face off against the Asiatic Khan-like hordes of generalized Eurasia. The fight has moved from the homes of fifth columnists in Latvia and people with what scientists are calling a “genetic loyalty” to the Russian state, to the inner frontier of Ukrainian nationalism - specifically the problematic Ukrainians who probably aren’t proud enough of their nation, history, and export-import balance sheets.
Yurii Sheliazhenko, a local Russian sympathizer in Ukraine, was arrested for unlawful use of speech and inappropriate contradiction of the state. Sheliazhenko, a representative of an organization with ties to Russia known as the “Ukrainian Pacifist Movement,” fell under censure as well as censor when his unlawful calling against the war was found by local officials to actually be no more than a justification of Russian aggression.
Sheliazhenko also criticized the centralization of state security forces under the authority of President Zelenskiy, claiming such centralization was “undemocratic” and should have “checks and balances,” but maybe he should spend more time checking his balance the next time he walks across a bridge as those things can get mighty rickety sometimes.
Why Is Ukraine Prosecuting a Pacifist for “Justifying Russian Aggression”?
We speak with Ukrainian peace activist Yurii Sheliazhenko, whom Ukrainian authorities have charged with justifying Russian aggression, days after his Kyiv apartment was raided and searched. Sheliazhenko is executive secretary of the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement and has vocally opposed any...
www.democracynow.org
Yurii Sheliazhenko, a local Russian sympathizer in Ukraine, was arrested for unlawful use of speech and inappropriate contradiction of the state. Sheliazhenko, a representative of an organization with ties to Russia known as the “Ukrainian Pacifist Movement,” fell under censure as well as censor when his unlawful calling against the war was found by local officials to actually be no more than a justification of Russian aggression.
Sheliazhenko also criticized the centralization of state security forces under the authority of President Zelenskiy, claiming such centralization was “undemocratic” and should have “checks and balances,” but maybe he should spend more time checking his balance the next time he walks across a bridge as those things can get mighty rickety sometimes.
Fun fact: attacking civilians is actually a "legitimate tactic" which is "totally used in modern war all the time," says a recent reminder from anyone who can remember things from more than 10 years ago.
www.theguardian.com
Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians
Footage of July 2007 attack made public as Pentagon identifies website as threat to national security
The Guardian said:
The Guardian said:
Zardnaar
Deity
Key difference us no one's defending America's actions. I opposed that war then and Russias war now.Fun fact: attacking civilians is actually a "legitimate tactic" which is "totally used in modern war all the time," says a recent reminder from anyone who can remember things from more than 10 years ago.
Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians
Footage of July 2007 attack made public as Pentagon identifies website as threat to national security
Oh, but they are. They're implicitly defending America's actions when they call for the American military-industrial-complex to come save Ukraine from Russia. They implicitly defend all manner of chaos induced by France or Britain by the same token on different subjects, too, saying so as some people may point out that NATO is not actually "just" America. But all these weapons come from somewhere. It's because there's a market for them. Not only the markets created by chaos, but the markets created by the government directly when it has to acquire new armaments and prosecute its own wars of violent aggression.
The only morally correct position is to hope Ukraine can overcome Russia without trading with anyone who has prosecuted a genocidal war. I think China is the best option. China may be committing some genocide in Xinjiang, but as a genocidaire they're still a pretty low-ranking one (and they don't kill people in other countries, unlike the US or Russia).
The only morally correct position is to hope Ukraine can overcome Russia without trading with anyone who has prosecuted a genocidal war. I think China is the best option. China may be committing some genocide in Xinjiang, but as a genocidaire they're still a pretty low-ranking one (and they don't kill people in other countries, unlike the US or Russia).
The world is just a tad more complicated than this reduction makes it out to be.
I'm inherently anti-imperialist. But opposing Russia doesn't magically make my criticism of the US, UK or wherever go away.
Unlike people who play peekaboo with gotchas to defend Russia's current illegal invasion*. In an ideal world, some magical unconnected country (however that'd look, given that geopolitics would still exist) would be able to aid Ukraine against a much larger power. We don't live in that world. What would you suggest? That we allow Russia to annex the rest of Ukraine?
Instead of "aha, gotcha", because I know you can say better stuff than that, actually say how you think Ukraine should be lent aid.
* oh, not a defense, you say? Well, you can't pick and choose what counts and what doesn't. If "I reject Russian imperialism" is a defense of the US r.e. aid given, "I reject the US' r.e. aid given" is a defense of Russian imperialism, because that's the practicalities of the reality we live in.
oh lol I missed this:
Nevermind then.
Well who is "we?" This is exactly why I'm skeptical of any wayward notions about saving the world or doing the right thing here. Who is going to stop Russia annexing Ukraine? It's really nice and pleasant-sounding to say, "we, the free democratic united nations of the world," but as you say, reality is more complicated than that. You can even shift your eyes over to Pew Research and get a very different picture again.
I have this sense that the moral decay of the west right now is so profound that people are desperate to believe Russia is the new Nazi Germany and Putin is the new Hitler, so we can preemptively construct the fiction of returning to Europe once more for another heroic war against the forces of evil. But in reality it's not like that at all. There's not like an alternative democratic Russia waiting to be peaceful with Ukraine. There's only an open sore in Europe that will continue to exacerbate tensions between west and east until something breaks.
Probably, the nature of that breaking will be something insane, such as we have often seen before, like "the war will be over by Christmas, and our scientists are telling us Russian missiles might not even work."
You know I come from a country where they still lynch blacks for staying out after dark right? You won't hear about it on the frickin' media. But there's a lot of stuff that happens in Ohio they don't bother talking about. I have nothing but contempt for the notion that we can judge the good and bad of other countries while we, richest, most powerful, most armed to the teeth, and most occupying of the entire world, continue to spread violence, chaos, inequality, and, yes, make the soil loamy for "dictatorships" and abuse of human rights everywhere.
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Where we come from doesn't matter in this context. I'm a freaking Brit, and I don't need to derail the thread with factual accounts on the bunch of ways we suck and have sucked.
It's pretty simple. If you're going to moral high ground about genocide, you don't "but" the genocide you find the most excusable. Because that makes you no different from everyone else who does it.
As for "moral decay", I don't think it's a genius take to say "Putin bad". Look at what he does to his opposition. Look at what he's doing to term limits. You can pontificate about other countries as much as you want, and in another thread you might have a much different reception. But this is the dedicated RD thread for Russia's illegal invasion of Ukraine, and I'm (personally) way past tired of "other countries bad".
Yes, other countries bad. Yes, the Red Scare is still a thing (effectively). Yes, noble West vs. evil East is a trope that keeps on being played out. But that doesn't change the reality of the invasion. It doesn't mean that it's "morally correct" to abandon Ukraine to an impossible aid scenario that'll never play out. Even putting aside the genocide apologia, China aren't going to aid Ukraine.
Which makes your answer is "eff them lol, US bad". It's . . . not a very smart answer? We both agree reality is more complicated. Any solution is going to relate to international politics by definition.
Lexicus
Deity
The Ukrainians
Well, it would be great it if they agreed and stopped lobbying the US government. But I guess considering Israel's success in doing that and the fact we're all happy to overlook Turkey's genocides too, that they wisely chose to bet on the right horse (the horse that pays in blood-dipped emeralds from South Africa).
Lexicus
Deity
The world? We're just helping the Ukrainians save themselves from a genocidal fascist.
Critical analysis unless someone's asking you to be critical of a secret policeman (Putin) or a military dictator (the Nigerien coup guy) I guess.
Yep, so instead you implicitly support the destruction of the Ukrainian people by a vicious fascist and excuse genocide because China's doing it. What a morally courageous use of your important voice.
Who's "we"? I'm on record in one of these threads saying I think Turkey is just as bad as Russia.
Yeah, the English capitalists were going to massacre the German people so of course Hitler had to fight them. England and the USA have a much bigger war machine than Germany, trust me bro, Hitler may be doing a little genocide but the English and Americans are worse bro, in fact even the USSR are sellouts for allying with those evil empires, only Hitler is truly based bro
"you are all"
Mirroring me saying "we", or maybe missing the forest for the trees?
And like lexi said, nobody mentioned the world. I didn't even say the UK government would be saving anything. Plant the goalposts, yeah? Quit moving them.
This was originally US aid to Ukraine. Expand it to the West if you want. But don't put words in mouths.
Calling people out for alleged half-baked ideas they didn't even post isn't critical analysis.
Neither is saying "Ukraine should accept no international aid due to complicity in genocide, except the country whose genocide I think is acceptable so far as lending aid goes".
There are many things that benefit from nuance. "but this genocide is less bad" is not one of them, doubly when you're attempting it from some kind of a moral high ground.
It's not nonsense. Russia illegally invaded Ukraine.
This is you, defending it explicitly now, by calling the phrase nonsense. You don't offer a phrase you find more acceptable. You just play silly games over stuff happening elsewhere. Again.
Anti-imperialism for me, but not for thee, or however it goes.
Zardnaar
Deity
CFC should take a collection, buy some socks, a T-55 and some puppets and send them to Portugal.
Again, missed a bit.
No, for saying Ukraine should get no aid. The China thing being a fantasy no-go, in your "moral" scenario, Ukraine gets no aid. Russia rolls over them. Very moral. Truly, for once, the good guys win.
The sarcasm is bleeding through pretty strongly now, and I'm honestly a bit sorry about that. But I don't get how quickly you're blowing through these goalposts in order to defend the original argument of "aid from genociding nations is only acceptable when it's China".
Moderator Action: Lots of non war, off topic posts. Please stop.
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
I Haz Questions ........... How dose money work in Ruski ?
Putin remains a master strategist
I dont think Putin understands how inflation works
Putin remains a master strategist
I dont think Putin understands how inflation works
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saamohod
Deity
The authorities of the Russian-controlled town in Kherson region will not issue medicines to those who have not received a Russian passport.
This was announced by the head of the administration of the village of Lazurnoe Alexander Dudka, explaining that this measure primarily concerns insulin.
Also, those Ukrainians who have not received a Russian passport will not be given humanitarian aid.
Dudka has also threatened people who keep their children out of schools after the region was occupied by the Russian army. “These parents will be brought to administrative responsibility, then to criminal responsibility, and then we will put them in buses and take them to the demarcation line. And we will send them to your Ukrainian schools, where you will study, my dear ones. You will learn your native language if you disdain Russian,” the official promised.
This was announced by the head of the administration of the village of Lazurnoe Alexander Dudka, explaining that this measure primarily concerns insulin.
Also, those Ukrainians who have not received a Russian passport will not be given humanitarian aid.
Dudka has also threatened people who keep their children out of schools after the region was occupied by the Russian army. “These parents will be brought to administrative responsibility, then to criminal responsibility, and then we will put them in buses and take them to the demarcation line. And we will send them to your Ukrainian schools, where you will study, my dear ones. You will learn your native language if you disdain Russian,” the official promised.
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