PH09: The King and We

[pholkhero]

lurker's comment:
I have encountered a similar problem while playing an SG. It has something to do with the transfer of information from one player using a mod to another player who is not. The problem gets quite annoying as you cannot refer to the log when you missed an announcement

hmmm . . . i wonder if it's through use of the unofficial patch since i'm sure the BUG mod wouldn't affect it, eh? or, at least, it's not supposed to

 

[Crotazzo]

I likr thr idea of building the oracle in our second city (settled in the desert place).
IMO we shouldn't war before cats (at least for now). Enemies aren't that close to make it swift. Jags are weaker units than swords, and on top of that, its very likely that our enemies will have promoted archers in hills cities.
Plus, one of the most challenging things about highlands maps is expanding without crippling our economy. I would prefer to have a nicely cottaged city first before making a war move.

 

[GreyFox]

Pretty quiet turnset. Pictures speak for themselves:

Learned Wheel > Pottery, onto Writing. Meanwhile, Hinduism FIADL.


Look Ma, found my long lost twin brother!


Yikes, how ghastly! Whose blood are these?


Uncovering France


Settling chop​

Basically, I waited until we hit size 4 and swap build to worker, whipped it. Then, build barracks (after archer) and swap to settler at size 3. We are chopping a forest to hasten it.

>>> The Save (2250BC) <<<​

 

[Simon_c]

lurker's comment:
I have encountered a similar problem while playing an SG. It has something to do with the transfer of information from one player using a mod to another player who is not. The problem gets quite annoying as you cannot refer to the log when you missed an announcement

Humm. I've tried the unofficial patches and no difference. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Looking at the layout of france, my initial ideas would be to get an archer over there. Maybe try to nab a worker, and get the archer camped on the copper over there. I *think* if we declare war, the french will stop sending settler parties out, and anyway, if they don't have copper they won't be able to dislodge the archer. Keeping them free of axes until we can get a horde of jags built. Just an idea. As I said, I've not played BtS so far, so I don't know how the AI will react. If we don't go for harrassing France in war, then we should go open borders and scout him out. Either way, it would be good to get an archer "behind enemy lines" so he can nip in and disconnect the copper as soon as war is declared. He should be able to hide out over there somewhere if it's not too late for him to get there before the latest city gets a border pop.

The spot for coppercity is spot on. We'll have to build a monument and get a border pop, but that should give the worker time to sort the roads out to the copper, and maybe even back to the capitol. Although, if we chop the three forests next to the city, we could go straight for the oracle there. We probably have time to get the research done... Just a question if we can get it built in time without the extra production on the copper. (I never have the patients to try to figure that kind of stuff out accurately.... )
Copper city also looks like a good place to cottage spam.

Remember, we won't get a religion spread to there without a trade route back to the holy city.

As for the other possible cites, none look great but there doesn't look to be much better around.

 

[pigswill]

One alternative is to research sailing, road connecting copper to desert city will then connect both to Teno. Sailing would also speed up connecting marble/crab city.

 

[Simon_c]

One alternative is to research sailing, road connecting copper to desert city will then connect both to Teno. Sailing would also speed up connecting marble/crab city.

Will that connect up then? I didn't think a road could just terminate on a coastline and hook up a resource. I though you could only terminate on a river, or with a coastal city.

Or has that changed with BtS ?

EDIT: I just checked in world builder and simply putting a road next to a lake doesn't connect resources. It has to link to a river, or a city on the lake/ocean. So, unless we want to build a road all the way to the river in the east, we should just road back to the capitol when we have the spare worker turns

 

[GreyFox]

Really, I wouldn't hold high hopes for Oracle. (In fact, I would forget abt it). #1, it either takes worker centuries to get there and build a quarry, or it takes as long for us to research sailing and pump out a galley to ferry worker over. #2: look at my pools-of-blood screenie ... France has marble as well. Fortunately, it is Nappy and not Loius, but chances are, we can forget abt it.

 

[pholkhero]

@ Simon ~ i guess you'll have to try the BUG mod

Plus, one of the most challenging things about highlands maps is expanding without crippling our economy. I would prefer to have a nicely cottaged city first before making a war move.

i never knew that, and don't have much experience on highland maps. i guess b/c the city locations are so crappy, your maintenance skyrockets.

Basically, I waited until we hit size 4 and swap build to worker, whipped it. Then, build barracks (after archer) and swap to settler at size 3. We are chopping a forest to hasten it.

I would've rather we swapped to the settler at 4, and whipped that as soon as we could've to get that 2nd city up. That way, Tenoch could focus on the Oracle, and the 2nd city could go for a worker at Pop2 ~ whip overflow going into a worker there I'm not sure how wonder prone Nappy is {checks Anion's guide} Nappy builds wonders "very rarely" and focuses on military and gold. I say we still try for it, but let's sketch out a rough plan for it ~

after Pottery, go with Priesthood, and i think we forget about getting the marble hooked up to speed it up. I think the resource needs to be connected to a city and if it's on the coast or on a river that terminates at the coast, it'll be connected with Sailing ~

@ Tenoch, let's switch to an archer or something to get to pop4 so that we can whip for 2 when the opportunity arises (remember to swap back to the settler when the chop completes), and get out the settler. Then, found the 2nd city, and have Tenoch start on the Oracle, and pray

 

[ruff_hi]

Er, does anyone else get a crash if they click on the logging icon in the top left ?

lurker's comment:
I have encountered a similar problem while playing an SG. It has something to do with the transfer of information from one player using a mod to another player who is not. The problem gets quite annoying as you cannot refer to the log when you missed an announcement

hmmm . . . i wonder if it's through use of the unofficial patch since i'm sure the BUG mod wouldn't affect it, eh? or, at least, it's not supposed to

@ Simon ~ i guess you'll have to try the BUG mod

I haven't seen this issue at all. Have you tried the Alt-Tab method of bring up the log? I guess installing the world famous, glorious and all round generally terrific mod BUG would be a good idea. Not saying that it will have any impact on the error, because, hey, BUG doesn't do this sort of stuff ... no, not our BUG.

Yikes, how ghastly! Whose blood are these?

Ok, I admit it, this is caused by missing art files in FBUG (recently renamed BAT for 'BtS Artistic Tweaks'). I think that the developers of BAT recently swapped to a different set of unit art files so you shouldn't see anymore missing art files. However, it isn't my fault (as Bart Simpson says ... "I didn't do it. Nobody saw me. You cannot prove anything") because I don't work on BAT. There is some cross over in the developers putting together BUG and BAT but the mods are actually totally separate with neither needing the other.

 

[Simon_c]

I haven't seen this issue at all. Have you tried the Alt-Tab method of bring up the log? I guess installing the world famous, glorious and all round generally terrific mod BUG would be a good idea. Not saying that it will have any impact on the error, because, hey, BUG doesn't do this sort of stuff ... no, not our BUG.

I hadn't tried alt-tab, but installing BUG seems to have fixed the problem.
Thanks for the help everyone.

I'll probably post some more comments on the game tonight, when I can look at it without users interrupting me.

 

[ruff_hi]

I hadn't tried alt-tab, but installing BUG seems to have fixed the problem.

Rats! That is actually not what I wanted to hear. Now I will have to take a closer look at this. I'm assuming that you tried to open the log from the latest save (or was it a different save)?

 

[pholkhero]

i think it was my first posted save, ruff ~ thanks for the help

edit: and congrats on the Man of the Year award ~ nice going!! wasn't that when "You" was the 'man of the year'?

 

[Simon_c]

Rats! That is actually not what I wanted to hear. Now I will have to take a closer look at this. I'm assuming that you tried to open the log from the latest save (or was it a different save)?

All three of them had the problem.

 

[Simon_c]

i never knew that, and don't have much experience on highland maps. i guess b/c the city locations are so crappy, your maintenance skyrockets.

It looks to me like we should consider switching the capitol to copper city when we get close to Civil Service. It has copper + 4 hills, and should be able to work 2 of the hills when big enough, 3 with some farming. It will also support 6 cottages and a plantation. Something to think on anyway.

I also think it's very dubious for the worker to chop that far away. it will get 13 hammers. About 2 and a half turns on what tenoch is doing right now. Once he's done that, he should get to work building a road down to where copper city will go. The road will take about 3 turns of the time it takes the settler to get down there. He'll be done with the road about the same time the city is established, so there's a chance to get some free religion spread, and it's 2commerse per turn too. We still probably should do a monument first, to pop the borders ASAP, but we we get religion there, we can abandon the monument for a while.

 

[ruff_hi]

Re the bug you reported re BUG mod. We were able to recreate the bug with the save that you provided. However, when we turned on error logging in Civ4, the bug ran away making it very hard to track down. Further, on trying to create the bug with the latest version of BUG (v2.0 due for release tonight!) we failed. As such, we are considering declaring this bug fixed (ie not present in the latest version of BUG) and moving on.

Any comments?

 

[pholkhero]

re: BUG ~ i guess let's see when BUG 2.0 is out, if the problem remains, no?

Re: Palace ~ that's a good idea, but i'm not so sure we'd gain too much in maintenance as those upper NE cities might just add the what we gain by moving

and I see that I neglected to post a roster:

pholkhero
pigswill
GreyFox >> just played
beserks01 >> UP NOW for 15 (now the standard peacetime set length)
Crotazzo >> on deck
Simon_c
Negyvenketto

 

[berserks01]

Ok, I've got it then.

 

[berserks01]

As expected, a quick and quiet meet and greet turnset.

First of, switched Tenochtitlan to archer for some growth while chopping. Then switched back to grab the chop, and switch back to archer until pop 4, and finally switched back to settler to let it finish again.

Our scout in the West met Ramses



and Bizmark



and Qin



all on the top left corner of the map.

Meanwhile, our scout in the North was dancing around a barb warrior trying to go South, but finally met his end by the appearance of a second barb warrior when Louis's border kicked him back unexpectedly.

The turn Writing came in



Ramses and Churchill asked for OB.





I agreed for now. Research set to Sailing, but only a couple of turns invested so next player feel free to veto. Settler in 6 turns.

 

[pholkhero]

nice turns ~ hopefully we can whip that settler first thing next set. I would say we should go Iron Working rather than sailing at this point. Once that Settler is in, can we shift the overflow into the Oracle and work on that? I can't remember if we have Priesthood and am too lazy at the moment to check further up in the thread. Yeah, THAT lazy . . .

roster (15 Turns in Peace)
pholkhero
pigswill
GreyFox
beserks01 >> just played
Crotazzo >> UP NOW
Simon_c >> on deck
Negyvenketto

 

[Simon_c]

nice turns ~ hopefully we can whip that settler first thing next set. I would say we should go Iron Working rather than sailing at this point. Once that Settler is in, can we shift the overflow into the Oracle and work on that? I can't remember if we have Priesthood and am too lazy at the moment to check further up in the thread. Yeah, THAT lazy . . .

Well, we don't have priesthood yet, so I'm not sure why we're researching sailing, sure trade on rivers is nice, but we've not got any cities on rivers yet....

I think we need to move the research onto priesthood, whip the settler, and put the overflow into the archer.
hopefully we'll get another archer before priesthood is in in 8 turns. Then focus on the Oracle, maybe with a chop now we've got those trees on the northern shore of the lake.

The Oracle is going to cost us 225 hammers. Forests could give us 40. By the time we start on it, we'll be back up to 3, giving us a grand total of 3 hammers/turn. at size4 we get 2 more hammers, but it's going to be a whole long time until we get it, and we're up against not one but two industrious leaders. I think it's a real long shot to get it here.

Do we really want to invest the beakers for priesthood and hammers for the oracle ?

I plaid a couple of starts with the same settings and the oracle went around 1300 BC.

I think I'd prefer to see our hammers go into archers axemen and jags rather than just give us some gold. What does everyone else think ?

I'd also like to get an archer scouting round france to see if there's any workers to nab and to camp out near to copper to disconnect it as soon as hostilities break out. If we keep the archer (and later an axeman) in the French territory it will really slow down their expansion (but he will spam archers in his city). Is it worth that?