Military Tactics T94-T120

[damnrunner]

Donsig - we don't know what is east of Angle - Sacnta Chariots may lurk.

 

[mikotian]

I agree with (I think) Sommerswerd that we need a Spy and perhaps should have built a spy long ago.

This discussion would be so much more useful and constructive if we knew how many sancta forces are around angle, what's garrisoned inside angle, the length of Sancta's supply line, and the units they are sending over.

Groping in the dark is not fun.

So yes, chop or do whatever we have to do. Get a spy out now.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Is Sommers' theory valid about Angle slaving and not growing?

It partially depends on whether the city grows at the beginning of a team's turn, or at the end. If it grows at the beginning, then you can slave before an attack. If it grows at the end, then you can attack before they have a chance to slave. I don't remember which way it happens and I don't feel like starting a game and waiting for a city to grow just to check.

It also depends on when the slaved unit appears... If it appears at the end of the turn, then an attacker would have to fight it on the next turn. If it appears at the begining of the turn then you could attack before the slaved unit appears.

 

[mikotian]

I'm fairly certain it's at the end. i.e. you have to wait for a city to grow, and then slave the turn after.

 

[damnrunner]

Now that we have a spy moving toward the front what do we want to do with it? Investigate around Angle and stay in the vicinity. Investigate around angle and move on toward the coast to see if a naval assault is in the works. Investigate around angle and move on to the Sancta heartland. Beeline to the coast. I think this sums up our options.

Since we have an esp advantage can we cause any worthwhile mischief. Also what risks do we face regarding losing our spy. Also I think we can assume Sancta has built 1 or more spys of their own as they have alpha.

My thoughts are to be as risk averse as possible with our spy and to investigate Angle - just to see the number of units they have and then move on towards the coast.

 

[cav scout]

I think we should be cautious with our spy as well and stay outside of cultural boundaries. We can still get a good look at Angle and all the enemy forces in the area. We can then determine the distance from Angle to SANTCA's homeland.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I agree with Cavscouts plan for the spy.

 

[Kaleb]

I thought it best to continue this discussion in this thread...

Maybe Cav can help us in the north with their Chariot, which has the Shock promotion. If Cav are agreeable, I suggest that they move the Chariot to the Grassland tile to the E of the Syr Darya River and SE of the Cow. We would need to follow through and back up the Chariot with our Axemen giving one a Woodsman promotion and the other a Combat promotion and moving them north to the plains tile to the W of the Wheat. It is important to act fast before that SANCTA Axeman fortifies too much.

In the south a Fort on the coastal hill would give any Archery units an additional 50% defence bonus. Also, once inside our borders it could act as a safe harbour for a Trireme with the same healing rate (20 HP per turn) as a city. We could defend the coast relatively easily with two Triremes.

Spoiler :

SANCTA just moved an axe of the spot where Cav's chariot is now. I think that axe was combat I with Shock. It was same axe that killed our chariot there (waterstof).

A point to note: SANCTA's new city will border pop in 5 turns and when it does it will get mountains within it's radius giving them good visibility into our territory.

I've marked out in red the radius of what they'll be able to see (the orange bit will come later if they get the corner mountain that's in our territory)

Spoiler :

 

[Kaleb]

Got some useful intel from Niklas:

Spoiler :

 

[cav scout]

Well the new SANCTA city seems to be a junk city with the sole purpose of serving as a jump-off point against us. Not a bad move on their part. Our attention and resources are now split between the two fronts and this takes the pressure off Angle.

One way to counter this would be to get CAV into the fight now to put pressure back on Angle. We want to regain the initiative and get SANCTA reacting to us instead of the current situation (where we are forced to react to their moves). CAV and MS are key- without them all we can do really is turtle until SANCTA finally overwhelms us.

 

[damnrunner]

Kaleb's intel - that is a good number of units. And we sorely need a spear to cover our axes.

 

[cav scout]

Yeah I'm not saying we should move out onto the open plains right away. We need to find out if CAV (or even MS) has more units in the area or on the way. And we need to build up our own forces of course.

My point is we should focus our main effort where we can bring the most combat power to bear. If CAV and MS get into this fight with us (which they should!) then this is obviously our northern theater. This means we fight the naval theater in an economy of force manner- just enough forces to stop a SANCTA amphibious assault and maybe launch a harrassing raid or two.

If we allocate our forces 50/50 to the two fronts and go completely reactionary we will just be waiting for SANCTA to overwhelm us at the time and place of their choosing.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I agree with Cavscout on this (if we are intent on continuing this war, Memphus offered unconditional peace on chat BTW), if we keep fighting we can forge about naval assault. We should build 3 triremes (at least) which will ensure that they cannot invade by sea. Then focus on destroying Angle.

 

[Bolkonski]

Thinking it over, it is risky trying to take out the Axeman with the Woodsman III promotion but if we are going to do it we should get on and do it straight away before the unit gets much of a chance to fortify. It will be quick in and quick out hoping that SANCTA have no units behind. All in all, I think that it is probably worth the risk.

A plus would be that it would get Cav into the war. They should know that it is in their interests to support us but they may be wavering and need some gentle persuasion. I doubt very much that they would like to see SANCTA pick us off one by one.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Cav will have paper soon and we will exchange maps. I suggest their chariot continues scouting to gather more intel for us...it will be faster than our spy.

Attacking the woodsman axe? With what?

From Niclas intel we now know that Sancta also have chariots in the area. Their mix of spears axes and chariots is not a threat atm...as long as they don't send the chariots before we get the sword and the spear there.

Also we need to settle that front city when workers are there to start chopping, not before.

Now regarding units...it is very propable that Sancta will try to land a longbow on our capital mountains. The best way to stop this is to block the entrance by tririmes, building forts and making archers on the hills is not very efficient.

Capital can make another tririme after this one and both should go to block passage. In fact I think this is a mistake by Sancta as with our capital close we can outproduce them in ships and control that area..and when we have maces land a few maces in their area...I think it will be us making a move on 2 fronts not Sancta

Also they have addopted serfdom??? That means that they will not be assembling an army as fast as I thought...it means that they are not really trying to attack us..they want to secure what they have and develope fast to catch Cavaleiros...they will try some harasment, like the naval longbow maybe, but we should not expect a major army build up soon.

This gives us the chance amybe to slave army fast and go for their front city ourselves....the key is catapults...if they don't have enough catapults there when we are ready to go then it will be easy for us to take the city as we will have maces.

 

[Bolkonski]

Attacking the woodsman axe? With what?

Please see this post here

Now regarding units...it is very propable that Sancta will try to land a longbow on our capital mountains. The best way to stop this is to block the entrance by tririmes

Agreed.

building forts and making archers on the hills is not very efficient

It is not so much a question of efficiency as one of defence. A fort with an archer or better still a crossbowman or even better, a longbowman, is virtually impregnable and acts as a second line of defence. Also, once the fort is inside our boundaries the healing rate for the triremes, which can use it as a port, will be the same rate as a city.

 

[Indiansmoke]

It is not so much a question of efficiency as one of defence. A fort with an archer or better still a crossbowman or even better, a longbowman, is virtually impregnable and acts as a second line of defence. Also, once the fort is inside our boundaries the healing rate for the triremes, which can use it as a port, will be the same rate as a city.

fort takes a long time to build, even if we start this turn it will not be ready until after 8-9 turns.

Also there are 3 coastal hills, which one will we buid the fort on, all of them?

At this stage the best unit they can build is sword HA or longbow. An archer on a hill will have odds against all these (naval landing) even without a fort.

But the question is how many archers, how many hills and how many forts?

If they get a longbow on a galley next 2 turns then there is nothing we can do anyway...in 4 turns we will have 2 tririmes there, and in 7 turns 3 tririmes and they are not comming through anyway..

 

[Kaleb]

We're lucky with the way the coast lies, that we can block the way through on just one tile - I marked the spot in an earlier post with a green X

I think ships are the way to go and having a galley in the mix will also be good to make them nervous about us dropping units off ourselves.

Spoiler :

 

[Indiansmoke]

When their borders pop (in 5 turns) we will have 2 squares to defend not 1 as they will be able to pass through ocean inside their borders...but.. ocean tiles do not get the 10% defensive bonus so if we have bigger numbers then we are OK...block coastal tile (we get the bonus) lete them move to ocean tile and attack.

 

[Bolkonski]

In this proposal I am thinking ahead, not where we are now but where we will be in 10 turns, when we may well be facing far stronger units than we are now.

fort takes a long time to build, even if we start this turn it will not be ready until after 8-9 turns.

It depends how many workers you use but I would only use one.

Also there are 3 coastal hills, which one will we buid the fort on, all of them?

The one defended by our warrior at the moment.

At this stage the best unit they can build is sword HA or longbow. An archer on a hill will have odds against all these (naval landing) even without a fort.

Agreed.

But the question is how many archers, how many hills and how many forts?

Only one fort is required on the coast defended by one Archery unit. Archers are out of date. I would wait until we can produce Crossbows or better, Longbowmen.